O-GPS1 and your EXIF data - When the GPS is on, it strips data from the EXIF?

Sagitta · 03-10-2013, 10:45 PM

Asking, as I'm noticing that when I'm out and about with the astrotracker, it seems to eliminate the data for the lens used. Instead of showing the focal length, it just shows as a 0 in the EXIF.

Not a huge issue, but kind of annoying when trying to go back and find something in particular you shot a few days earlier.

Am I missing a setting somewhere or is just some kind of strange quirk with the device?

EDIT: It does this to MF lenses, not lenses that talk to the camera, forgot to mention that up above.

elliott · 03-10-2013, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Sagitta

It does this to MF lenses, not lenses that talk to the camera, forgot to mention that up above.

I believe this is because it disables the shake reduction, which is the only way the camera knows the focal length of a manual lens.

Stone G. · 03-11-2013, 01:48 AM

That sounds a bit weird to me. Here is (a selection of) what PhotoME finds in an Astrotracer image taken with a purely manual lens, smc Pentax-M f/2.8 100mm:

Make: PENTAX (Global Site | PENTAX RICOH IMAGING)
Camera: PENTAX K-5
Lens: K or M Lens
Software: K-5 Ver 1.14
Dimension: 4928 x 3264 px (16.1 MP, 3:2)
Focal length: 100 mm (equiv. 150 mm)
Exposure time: 15"
ISO speed rating: 400/27°
Program: Bulb (Off-Auto-Aperture)
Metering Mode: Center-weighted average
White Balance: Daylight
Focus Mode: Manual
Image Stabilizer: 192
Noise Reduction: Off

This was shot with a K-5. I believe your camera is a K-30 and I cannot rule out, that there might be a difference here? I trust that you do enter the focal length when you turn your camera on.

Sagitta · 03-11-2013, 10:14 PM

I'm wondering if its a "You need to turn the unit off then on when swapping lenses' kind of thing. As I said, its not a huge deal, but its kind of annoying seeing all the 'Unknown Lenses' pop up in Lightroom.

**jbinpg** · 03-14-2013, 01:09 PM

I always turn my cameras off when changing lenses. The way my K-5 and IIs work is that when using a manual lens, the camera will ask for a focal length input if you have SR turned on (I almost always do). So when I will be using my O-GPS1 with a manual lens, I turn the camera on and it asks for the focal length. I enter it and then attach the GPS unit and turn it on. When you activate the GPS function in the camera menu, it will turn off the SR but it will remember the focal length entered. Indeed, it will always remember this focal length until you change it.

So, my EXIF will always show a focal length with a manual focus lens regardless of whether I am using the GPS unit.

Jack

Edit - Just dawned on me that the turning off of the SR likely hinges on setting the Bulb mode rather than turning on the GPS function. Since I use the GPS unit mostly for the Astrotracer function, it needs to be in Bulb mode. If you use the GPS unit for geotagging, the SR will remain on since you will likely not be in Bulb.

Sagitta · 03-20-2013, 06:00 AM

Had it happen again, not sure what the heck I may be doing wrong.

In this case, the EXIF lens data was stripped from the DNG files, but the JPGs were left alone while shooting RAW+JPG. I'm wondering if I just have screwy firmware going on.

Stone G. · 03-20-2013, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by Sagitta

I'm wondering if I just have screwy firmware going on.

That may be the case. I use PhotoImpact and have noticed that while I can read all EXIF data perfectly upon opnening files, GPS data become corrupted as soon as I press the save button.

**jbinpg** · 03-20-2013, 11:03 AM

Speaking of firmware, Jody, do you have the latest update installed?

**jbinpg** · 03-20-2013, 11:05 AM

Wait....just read your OP again so, yes, you have the latest firmware. I have never seen such as you describe before.

Sagitta · 03-20-2013, 05:02 PM

Hate to keep bumping this, but I'm wondering if anyone knows a workaround (I hesitate to re-flash the firmware just because with my luck I'd brick the camera).

I spent the day shooting with two lenses - the FA28-90, and the M-50mm 1.7. As you can see, I have half my shots showing as 'unknown lens' and 'unknown focal length' where they SHOULD be showing as a 50mm and the assorted 28-90 shots. The JPGs show normally, but the DNGs are missing that part of the data. The few that are showing correctly were when the OGPS1 was turned off.

Gimbal · 03-21-2013, 05:08 AM

When you use the M-50 you have to manually enter the focal length each and every time you mount it, otherwise the camera have no idea about the focal length and thus no info to put into the EXIF. So the question is, did you enter it?

Sagitta · 03-21-2013, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

When you use the M-50 you have to manually enter the focal length each and every time you mount it, otherwise the camera have no idea about the focal length and thus no info to put into the EXIF. So the question is, did you enter it?

I did enter them - as I said, this only happens when using the astrotracker. If you don't manually input the focal ength, the camera will revert to using the last entered one (ie, swap from a 200mm to a 50mm and don't tell it, the camera will figure you're still using a 200mm lens and use that for SR). It won't simply pop up with UNKNOWN LENS. Not to mention using the FA "hey, I can talk to the camera!" lens wouldn't exhibit the same problem.

Gimbal · 03-21-2013, 01:48 PM

I just checked my astrotracker pictures and they do show the focal length on both new lenses and old M lenses. And since the astrotracker uses the focal length when doing the math while tracking (a value of zero would probably not work that great) I guess the camera actually has the right value during the time of usage. (I have a K5, the old one)

**jbinpg** · 03-21-2013, 04:26 PM

I suppose a more rigorous way of sussing this out is to compare *all* the camera settings to see if any of yours differ from ours and if they may be implicated somehow. Too bad there wasn't a way to do a text dump of all settings.

Stone G. · 03-22-2013, 07:45 AM

Funny though, I did a quick search on the net for K-30 astrotracer images - and found virtually none and definitely no one with intact EXIF data. On the other hand I did find a few K-r astrotracer images with intact EXIF data here on PF, for example in this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-technique/199177-astrophotog...ml#post2213255

The K-r + Astrotracer does seem to write manaually entered lens data to EXIF and I tend to belive that the K-30 problems found by Sagitta must be due to a genuine firmware bug.

Perhaps, it is time to ask Pentax support if this is so?

03-10-2013, 10:45 PM	#1
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	O-GPS1 and your EXIF data - When the GPS is on, it strips data from the EXIF? Asking, as I'm noticing that when I'm out and about with the astrotracker, it seems to eliminate the data for the lens used. Instead of showing the focal length, it just shows as a 0 in the EXIF. Not a huge issue, but kind of annoying when trying to go back and find something in particular you shot a few days earlier. Am I missing a setting somewhere or is just some kind of strange quirk with the device? EDIT: It does this to MF lenses, not lenses that talk to the camera, forgot to mention that up above.

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03-10-2013, 11:36 PM	#2
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Originally posted by Sagitta It does this to MF lenses, not lenses that talk to the camera, forgot to mention that up above. I believe this is because it disables the shake reduction, which is the only way the camera knows the focal length of a manual lens.

03-11-2013, 01:48 AM	#3
Stone G. Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Zealand, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,516	That sounds a bit weird to me. Here is (a selection of) what PhotoME finds in an Astrotracer image taken with a purely manual lens, smc Pentax-M f/2.8 100mm: Make: PENTAX (Global Site \| PENTAX RICOH IMAGING) Camera: PENTAX K-5 *Lens: K or M Lens* Software: K-5 Ver 1.14 Dimension: 4928 x 3264 px (16.1 MP, 3:2) *Focal length: 100 mm (equiv. 150 mm)* Exposure time: 15" ISO speed rating: 400/27° Program: Bulb (Off-Auto-Aperture) Metering Mode: Center-weighted average White Balance: Daylight Focus Mode: Manual Image Stabilizer: 192 Noise Reduction: Off This was shot with a K-5. I believe your camera is a K-30 and I cannot rule out, that there might be a difference here? I trust that you do enter the focal length when you turn your camera on.

03-11-2013, 10:14 PM	#4
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081 Original Poster	I'm wondering if its a "You need to turn the unit off then on when swapping lenses' kind of thing. As I said, its not a huge deal, but its kind of annoying seeing all the 'Unknown Lenses' pop up in Lightroom.

03-14-2013, 01:09 PM	#5
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	I always turn my cameras off when changing lenses. The way my K-5 and IIs work is that when using a manual lens, the camera will ask for a focal length input if you have SR turned on (I almost always do). So when I will be using my O-GPS1 with a manual lens, I turn the camera on and it asks for the focal length. I enter it and then attach the GPS unit and turn it on. When you activate the GPS function in the camera menu, it will turn off the SR but it will remember the focal length entered. Indeed, it will always remember this focal length until you change it. So, my EXIF will always show a focal length with a manual focus lens regardless of whether I am using the GPS unit. Jack Edit - Just dawned on me that the turning off of the SR likely hinges on setting the Bulb mode rather than turning on the GPS function. Since I use the GPS unit mostly for the Astrotracer function, it needs to be in Bulb mode. If you use the GPS unit for geotagging, the SR will remain on since you will likely not be in Bulb.

03-20-2013, 06:00 AM	#6
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081 Original Poster	Had it happen again, not sure what the heck I may be doing wrong. In this case, the EXIF lens data was stripped from the DNG files, but the JPGs were left alone while shooting RAW+JPG. I'm wondering if I just have screwy firmware going on.

03-20-2013, 07:57 AM	#7
Stone G. Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Zealand, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,516	Originally posted by Sagitta I'm wondering if I just have screwy firmware going on. That may be the case. I use PhotoImpact and have noticed that while I can read all EXIF data perfectly upon opnening files, GPS data become corrupted as soon as I press the save button.

03-20-2013, 11:03 AM	#8
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Speaking of firmware, Jody, do you have the latest update installed?

03-20-2013, 11:05 AM	#9
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Wait....just read your OP again so, yes, you have the latest firmware. I have never seen such as you describe before.

03-20-2013, 05:02 PM	#10
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081 Original Poster	Hate to keep bumping this, but I'm wondering if anyone knows a workaround (I hesitate to re-flash the firmware just because with my luck I'd brick the camera). I spent the day shooting with two lenses - the FA28-90, and the M-50mm 1.7. As you can see, I have half my shots showing as 'unknown lens' and 'unknown focal length' where they SHOULD be showing as a 50mm and the assorted 28-90 shots. The JPGs show normally, but the DNGs are missing that part of the data. The few that are showing correctly were when the OGPS1 was turned off.

03-21-2013, 05:08 AM	#11
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	When you use the M-50 you have to manually enter the focal length each and every time you mount it, otherwise the camera have no idea about the focal length and thus no info to put into the EXIF. So the question is, did you enter it?

03-21-2013, 10:22 AM	#12
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081 Original Poster	Originally posted by Gimbal When you use the M-50 you have to manually enter the focal length each and every time you mount it, otherwise the camera have no idea about the focal length and thus no info to put into the EXIF. So the question is, did you enter it? I did enter them - as I said, this only happens when using the astrotracker. If you don't manually input the focal ength, the camera will revert to using the last entered one (ie, swap from a 200mm to a 50mm and don't tell it, the camera will figure you're still using a 200mm lens and use that for SR). It won't simply pop up with UNKNOWN LENS. Not to mention using the FA "hey, I can talk to the camera!" lens wouldn't exhibit the same problem.

03-21-2013, 01:48 PM	#13
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	I just checked my astrotracker pictures and they do show the focal length on both new lenses and old M lenses. And since the astrotracker uses the focal length when doing the math while tracking (a value of zero would probably not work that great) I guess the camera actually has the right value during the time of usage. (I have a K5, the old one)

03-21-2013, 04:26 PM	#14
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	I suppose a more rigorous way of sussing this out is to compare all the camera settings to see if any of yours differ from ours and if they may be implicated somehow. Too bad there wasn't a way to do a text dump of all settings.

03-22-2013, 07:45 AM	#15
Stone G. Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Zealand, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,516	Funny though, I did a quick search on the net for K-30 astrotracer images - and found virtually none and definitely no one with intact EXIF data. On the other hand I did find a few K-r astrotracer images with intact EXIF data here on PF, for example in this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographic-technique/199177-astrophotog...ml#post2213255 The K-r + Astrotracer does seem to write manaually entered lens data to EXIF and I tend to belive that the K-30 problems found by Sagitta must be due to a genuine firmware bug. Perhaps, it is time to ask Pentax support if this is so?