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03-15-2013, 09:07 PM   #1
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Raw Image Display

I find it curious that the raw (CR2) images that I display in LR4 from my Canon s100 p&s are almost identical to their jpeg counterparts (they look quite good); whereas, the raw (DNG) images that I display from my Pentax K5 are typically flat and low contrast, noticeably different from their jpegs - which is what I would expect for a RAW image. In both cases the LR4 settings are at their neutral settings when the raw images present.

Any idea why this would be so; why the canon raw appear already processed?

Thanks much for any input.

fred

03-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by PENFRED Quote
I find it curious that the raw (CR2) images that I display in LR4 from my Canon s100 p&s are almost identical to their jpeg counterparts (they look quite good); whereas, the raw (DNG) images that I display from my Pentax K5 are typically flat and low contrast, noticeably different from their jpegs - which is what I would expect for a RAW image. In both cases the LR4 settings are at their neutral settings when the raw images present.

Any idea why this would be so; why the canon raw appear already processed?

Thanks much for any input.

fred
Raw files can contain recommended settings- I'd guess that the canon files contain more than the pentax ones.

Adam
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03-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #3
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Look at the camera calibration tab - I know where this is in Adobe Camera RAW but not in LR. Adobe has a lot of camera profiles for Canon that match the different picture styles available in-camera, but for Pentax, you may only see Adobe Standard or Embedded.
03-16-2013, 12:35 PM   #4
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That's quite a puzzle. You don't have any kind of import presets going on that would apply a bunch of processing? I assume you told LR to treat your CR2 files separately from the corresponding jpegs?

M

03-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by PENFRED Quote
canon raw appear already processed
I guess it's a Canon thing.

Raw files are usually as you say, maybe there's some hidden stuff going on.
03-16-2013, 04:27 PM   #6
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Yes, since it only manifests in the Canon files and not the Pentax, I suspect it's a "canon thing", as you and Adam suggest - curious. I have no presets set for RAW in LR4 (and even if there were, they would affect both Canon and Pentax raws); and, changing the camera calibration (many for canon) changes the image only slightly - none make it look like a flat raw.

I don't think that the Pentax file format being DNG rather than PEF would matter, would it?
03-17-2013, 05:46 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by PENFRED Quote
being DNG rather than PEF would matter, would it?
I wouldn't think so, but hey, I stopped using PEF many moons ago in favour of DNGs.

He's one for you and don't ask me to explain, when importing into LR4 catalog/library, I've noticed that LR4 DNGs can be half the file size of Pentax straight from the camera DNGs.

Last edited by Kerrowdown; 03-17-2013 at 10:54 AM.
03-17-2013, 05:46 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by kerrowdown Quote
I wouldn't think so, but hey, I stopped using PEF many moons ago in favour of DNGs.

He's one for you and don't ask me to explain, when importing into LR4 catalog/library, I've noticed that LR4 DNGs can be half the file size of Pentax straight from the camera DNGs.
Sorry, don't know why the DNG files would be so different in size.

As for my original query, after looking at the respective histograms, I'm now thinking that it's not so much a difference between raw and jpeg, as it is the propensity of Pentax to be conservative in exposure in order to not blow out highlights, whereas the Canon images are typically exposed more to the right. The Pentax images are sometimes too conservative.

Not a big deal; easily correctible.

03-18-2013, 05:51 AM   #9
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If I am not off-base, this is what I think is happening in Lightroom... RAW files contain not only the sensor data, but also a jpeg to allow quick viewing (some software that allows for the viewing, but not editing of RAW files are in fact only using the embedded jpeg). I vaguely recall there is a Lightroom setting that determines whether a larger jpeg or just a thumbnail is retained upon import. If the file size is noticeably smaller in Lightroom than on the SD card, I suspect Lightroom is only storing the smaller thumbnail for catalog display.

Somebody who works more with Lightroom than I do, please confirm or correct this statement.
03-18-2013, 06:15 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
Somebody who works more with Lightroom than I do, please confirm or correct this statement.
Nice try, but scrambled.
Lightroom never changes a RAW file. It is a parametric editor.
True, one can change the size of the jpeg preview you see when viewing in Library mode, but the resulting data is kept in the Lightroom Catalog Previews file which can be enormous.

M
03-18-2013, 04:07 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by kerrowdown Quote
when importing into LR4 catalog/library, I've noticed that LR4 DNGs can be half the file size of Pentax straight from the camera DNGs.
LR4 allows the creation of compressed DNG's if you have it set that way. I've never used that, I keep the DNG's the same as in camera but I did read a bit about that. ChromaSoft: Lightroom's new lossy DNG compression

Not sure if this is what is happening to you or not but might be worth looking into. I think it only happens if you have "convert to DNG" checked on import but I might be wrong on that. I do know my DNG's are the same size.
03-18-2013, 05:28 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think it only happens if you have "convert to DNG
I think your the man.

I've not been able to repeat this odd phenomenon, but you saying that, I do seem to remember using that setting once.

Think I imported some older PEF images and did convert to DNG, but nowadays it's DNG straight from the camera, so hence no conversion required.

I'm gonna go in and check it out, thanks again.

Last edited by Kerrowdown; 03-18-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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