Battery indicator K-7

barkii · 04-02-2013, 01:08 AM

I was in the middle of a photoshooting session the other day. The batterylevel indicator showed
maximum charge level. Suddenly the display turned black and showed the words "battery empty".
I thought it was a false alarm and tried to turn the camera off and on again, but the same thing
happened. Does anybody have any experience of this situation and possible remedies?

**Kerrowdown** · 04-02-2013, 02:14 AM

When you went to recharge the battery did it need charging?

barkii · 04-02-2013, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by kerrowdown

When you went to recharge the battery did it need charging?

Yes, I started to charge it right away and it kept doing it for a long time before it was fully charged. I was, exceptionally using Live View a couple of times yesterday and I realise that this may have triggered the situation. But, annoyingly, the indicator showed maximum strength at all times. Actually, I hadn't charged the battery for a long time prior to yesterdays session and, in the back of my head, I remember thinking that the battery had remained strong for a surprisingly long time. But, as said, there were no warnings..

**Kerrowdown** · 04-02-2013, 02:43 AM

Yeah, maybe just one of those things.

Keep an eye on it and keep another fully charged spare battery with you just in case.

barkii · 04-02-2013, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by kerrowdown

Yeah, maybe just one of those things.

Keep an eye on it and keep another fully charged spare battery with you just in case.

Thanks for your comments. Incidentally I bought a spare one through e-bay at a fraction of the cost of "a real one". I accepted the fact that I took a risk but, up to now (bought it in September last year) it has, touch wood, worked faultlessly. The "problematic" battery, yesterday, was the original Pentax one.

hcc · 04-02-2013, 04:24 AM

On my K-7, the battery indicator remains 'fully charged' until the battery is nearly close to depleted, and then moves to two-bars then one-bar fairly rapidly. I have this with all my batteries (2 Pentax and one generic).

It is likely that your battery were already partially depleted when you started to used Liveview, which pushed quickly the battery to zero.

In nay case, the best medicine is to fully charge your battery and to have a spare (as you do).

Anvh · 04-02-2013, 08:40 AM

The level indicator looks at the voltage level, and the batteries use hold their charge very well during normal use. So you don't see a dip in performance.

However, live view and video do use a lot of power and because of the extra request of power on the battery, the voltage actually goes down and you can get indication that the battery is low when you turn these options on.

**Just1MoreDave** · 04-02-2013, 04:06 PM

I remember the shot number when I change batteries. Add around 400 and that's when I think about changing or carrying a charged spare. I can go further, 500-600, especially if it's not all at once. If I use live view a lot or some other power-hungry mode, I recharge sooner. I started this with my *ist DS, with a much less reliable level indicator.

barkii · 04-02-2013, 10:23 PM

Thanks to all of you who commented. I know a little more about the subject now. Imagine, if the gas level indicator in a car would work the same way.. You leave home believing the tank is full, and 10 minutes later, on the highway, its empty....

**JimJohnson** · 04-03-2013, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by barkii

Thanks to all of you who commented. I know a little more about the subject now. Imagine, if the gas level indicator in a car would work the same way.. You leave home believing the tank is full, and 10 minutes later, on the highway, its empty....

I understand your concern. However to complete the analogy, your car does work like modern batteries. Modern battery designs produce a constant voltage. Power level meters can only indirectly measure capacity based on voltage (electrical pressure). Your fuel pump supplies fuel at a constant pressure right up until just before your tank runs out of gas. Your car quickly goes from fully operational to barely running, and then quickly dying. If we judged remaining fuel based on pressure we would have same situation as in the battery. The difference is there is a sensor embedded in your car's fuel tank. No such sensor currently exists in an affordable form for batteries. Nor do I believe would the public willingly pay the additional cost of such sensors. The public would just buy extra sets of batteries and swap them out as needed.

I'm not saying this is ideal. And hopefully engineers will someday find a cost effect solution.

kh1234567890 · 04-04-2013, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by JimJohnson

I understand your concern. However to complete the analogy, your car does work like modern batteries. Modern battery designs produce a constant voltage. Power level meters can only indirectly measure capacity based on voltage (electrical pressure). Your fuel pump supplies fuel at a constant pressure right up until just before your tank runs out of gas. Your car quickly goes from fully operational to barely running, and then quickly dying. If we judged remaining fuel based on pressure we would have same situation as in the battery. The difference is there is a sensor embedded in your car's fuel tank. No such sensor currently exists in an affordable form for batteries. Nor do I believe would the public willingly pay the additional cost of such sensors. The public would just buy extra sets of batteries and swap them out as needed.

I'm not saying this is ideal. And hopefully engineers will someday find a cost effect solution.

Not quite true. Battery management has come a long way - most mobile phones these days measure the actual current drawn from the battery and base their 'fuel gauge' on a quite accurately predicted amount of charge remaining, rather than just on a simple voltage measurement. It is about time camera manufacturers caught up. The extra cost is minimal.

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-04-2013, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by barkii

Thanks to all of you who commented. I know a little more about the subject now. Imagine, if the gas level indicator in a car would work the same way.. You leave home believing the tank is full, and 10 minutes later, on the highway, its empty....

The K10D especially worked this way, it showed full until it was almost dead. As soon as it moved, you had about 10 shots left.

The K7 and K5 are significantly better in this regard, but, if you have a high usage function, live view, or continual checking of your shots, it will seem to go down pretty fast. I think the K7 and onwards use the third terminal to get a bett estimate of battery life, the K10 battery only has 2 terminals, so all the indicator can look at is the terminal voltage, not any internal points of the battery

04-02-2013, 01:08 AM	#1
barkii New Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Mariehamn Photos: Albums Posts: 8	Battery indicator K-7 I was in the middle of a photoshooting session the other day. The batterylevel indicator showed maximum charge level. Suddenly the display turned black and showed the words "battery empty". I thought it was a false alarm and tried to turn the camera off and on again, but the same thing happened. Does anybody have any experience of this situation and possible remedies?

04-02-2013, 10:23 PM	#9
barkii New Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Mariehamn Photos: Albums Posts: 8 Original Poster	Battery level.. Thanks to all of you who commented. I know a little more about the subject now. Imagine, if the gas level indicator in a car would work the same way.. You leave home believing the tank is full, and 10 minutes later, on the highway, its empty....

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04-02-2013, 02:14 AM	#2
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,819	When you went to recharge the battery did it need charging?

04-02-2013, 02:24 AM	#3
barkii New Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Mariehamn Photos: Albums Posts: 8 Original Poster	Originally posted by kerrowdown When you went to recharge the battery did it need charging? Yes, I started to charge it right away and it kept doing it for a long time before it was fully charged. I was, exceptionally using Live View a couple of times yesterday and I realise that this may have triggered the situation. But, annoyingly, the indicator showed maximum strength at all times. Actually, I hadn't charged the battery for a long time prior to yesterdays session and, in the back of my head, I remember thinking that the battery had remained strong for a surprisingly long time. But, as said, there were no warnings..

04-02-2013, 02:43 AM	#4
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,819	Yeah, maybe just one of those things. Keep an eye on it and keep another fully charged spare battery with you just in case.

04-02-2013, 02:50 AM	#5
barkii New Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Mariehamn Photos: Albums Posts: 8 Original Poster	Originally posted by kerrowdown Yeah, maybe just one of those things. Keep an eye on it and keep another fully charged spare battery with you just in case. Thanks for your comments. Incidentally I bought a spare one through e-bay at a fraction of the cost of "a real one". I accepted the fact that I took a risk but, up to now (bought it in September last year) it has, touch wood, worked faultlessly. The "problematic" battery, yesterday, was the original Pentax one.

04-02-2013, 04:24 AM	#6
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,002	On my K-7, the battery indicator remains 'fully charged' until the battery is nearly close to depleted, and then moves to two-bars then one-bar fairly rapidly. I have this with all my batteries (2 Pentax and one generic). It is likely that your battery were already partially depleted when you started to used Liveview, which pushed quickly the battery to zero. In nay case, the best medicine is to fully charge your battery and to have a spare (as you do).

04-02-2013, 08:40 AM	#7
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	The level indicator looks at the voltage level, and the batteries use hold their charge very well during normal use. So you don't see a dip in performance. However, live view and video do use a lot of power and because of the extra request of power on the battery, the voltage actually goes down and you can get indication that the battery is low when you turn these options on.

04-02-2013, 04:06 PM	#8
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	I remember the shot number when I change batteries. Add around 400 and that's when I think about changing or carrying a charged spare. I can go further, 500-600, especially if it's not all at once. If I use live view a lot or some other power-hungry mode, I recharge sooner. I started this with my *ist DS, with a much less reliable level indicator.

04-03-2013, 12:19 PM	#10
JimJohnson Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Summer:Lake Superior - Michigan Winter:Texas Hill Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,772	Originally posted by barkii Thanks to all of you who commented. I know a little more about the subject now. Imagine, if the gas level indicator in a car would work the same way.. You leave home believing the tank is full, and 10 minutes later, on the highway, its empty.... I understand your concern. However to complete the analogy, your car does work like modern batteries. Modern battery designs produce a constant voltage. Power level meters can only indirectly measure capacity based on voltage (electrical pressure). Your fuel pump supplies fuel at a constant pressure right up until just before your tank runs out of gas. Your car quickly goes from fully operational to barely running, and then quickly dying. If we judged remaining fuel based on pressure we would have same situation as in the battery. The difference is there is a sensor embedded in your car's fuel tank. No such sensor currently exists in an affordable form for batteries. Nor do I believe would the public willingly pay the additional cost of such sensors. The public would just buy extra sets of batteries and swap them out as needed. I'm not saying this is ideal. And hopefully engineers will someday find a cost effect solution.

04-04-2013, 01:52 AM	#11
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by JimJohnson I understand your concern. However to complete the analogy, your car does work like modern batteries. Modern battery designs produce a constant voltage. Power level meters can only indirectly measure capacity based on voltage (electrical pressure). Your fuel pump supplies fuel at a constant pressure right up until just before your tank runs out of gas. Your car quickly goes from fully operational to barely running, and then quickly dying. If we judged remaining fuel based on pressure we would have same situation as in the battery. The difference is there is a sensor embedded in your car's fuel tank. No such sensor currently exists in an affordable form for batteries. Nor do I believe would the public willingly pay the additional cost of such sensors. The public would just buy extra sets of batteries and swap them out as needed. I'm not saying this is ideal. And hopefully engineers will someday find a cost effect solution. Not quite true. Battery management has come a long way - most mobile phones these days measure the actual current drawn from the battery and base their 'fuel gauge' on a quite accurately predicted amount of charge remaining, rather than just on a simple voltage measurement. It is about time camera manufacturers caught up. The extra cost is minimal.

04-04-2013, 03:11 AM	#12
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by barkii Thanks to all of you who commented. I know a little more about the subject now. Imagine, if the gas level indicator in a car would work the same way.. You leave home believing the tank is full, and 10 minutes later, on the highway, its empty.... The K10D especially worked this way, it showed full until it was almost dead. As soon as it moved, you had about 10 shots left. The K7 and K5 are significantly better in this regard, but, if you have a high usage function, live view, or continual checking of your shots, it will seem to go down pretty fast. I think the K7 and onwards use the third terminal to get a bett estimate of battery life, the K10 battery only has 2 terminals, so all the indicator can look at is the terminal voltage, not any internal points of the battery