Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-17-2013, 09:35 PM   #1
New Member




Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9
reducing shake

Hello,

I've been told that I can increase sharpness in my shots by:

1) Turn off the image stabilizing/shake reduction feature because the shake reduction motor causes minor vibrations
2) Use live-view mode because the mirror in the camera stays in the up position and therefore reduces vibration from having to open and close.

Are either of these things true? Are there any other tips for taking sharp pictures aside from the more obvious use of tripod, and shutter speed?

Thanks

07-17-2013, 09:57 PM   #2
Pentaxian
carrrlangas's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Joensuu (Finland)
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,750
QuoteOriginally posted by SgtSmurf Quote
1) Turn off the image stabilizing/shake reduction feature because the shake reduction motor causes minor vibrations
It wouldnīt make much sense for an "anti-vibration" system to cause vibrations, would? Reality is that the SR is really dumb. It always think you are hand holding your camera as an average person would and so intrepretates movement based on this assumption and compensates how it thinks is best.
SR doesnīt understand a panning motion (so turn it off for panning)
SR deosnīt know if you put the camera on a tripod or table, etc. (so turn it off)

QuoteOriginally posted by SgtSmurf Quote
2) Use live-view mode because the mirror in the camera stays in the up position and therefore reduces vibration from having to open and close.
Take a look at this link "Influence of mirror lock up"
Common Obstacles in Night Photography

Use a sturdy tripod + Mirror lock up + timer or cable/IR release to avoid any movement. Notice that 2 sec timer does mirror lock up automatically.
07-17-2013, 09:57 PM   #3
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 43,139
1 is wrong, unless you're on a tripod

2 is also wrong, what you want to be doing is shooting with mirror lock up (only applies when on a tripod). Also, there's a bit of lag in live view, so it's best to shoot using the VF if stability is key.

So, to sum things up, your best bet is to keep SR on and try to hold the camera as steadily as possible. Then you'll be able to get sharp hand-helds as low as at 1/10s.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

07-17-2013, 10:00 PM   #4
Pentaxian
johnyates's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Posts: 1,192
If you're going to turn off shake reduction, you'll need to make sure you use a sufficiently fast shutter speed.

Holding the camera out from your body as you must when using live view is a recipe for camera shake as well--so you'll really need a fast shutter speed. A monopod might help.

07-18-2013, 05:35 AM   #5
Banned




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 390
Have a look here, https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/long-exposure-handhelds/introduction.html
07-18-2013, 12:59 PM   #6
Forum Member




Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Prince George, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 80
QuoteOriginally posted by johnyates Quote
If you're going to turn off shake reduction, you'll need to make sure you use a sufficiently fast shutter speed.
A related question: If using a fast shutter speed, is there any disadvantage to leaving SR enabled as well? For example I was at the dog park shooting at 1/1000 yesterday and just left SR on. Mostly the shots were OK (most issues caused by my own focus errors). But I'm wondering if it's possible that if you shoot before SR has stabilized, that it could be moving the sensor fast enough to *cause* blur?

My own uneducated guess would be that it's theoretically possible but not an issue in practice... any thoughts?
07-18-2013, 01:00 PM   #7
Pentaxian
JinDesu's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York City
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,626
QuoteOriginally posted by Trigger Happy Quote
A related question: If using a fast shutter speed, is there any disadvantage to leaving SR enabled as well? For example I was at the dog park shooting at 1/1000 yesterday and just left SR on. Mostly the shots were OK (most issues caused by my own focus errors). But I'm wondering if it's possible that if you shoot before SR has stabilized, that it could be moving the sensor fast enough to *cause* blur?

My own uneducated guess would be that it's theoretically possible but not an issue in practice... any thoughts?
Some people have noted that the SR does cause issues when shooting at high shutter speeds. It is recommended that you turn it off.

On the other hand, I occasionally shoot 1/2000s-1/6000s on my k-x on a sunny day with my Sigma 50 F1.4 - haven't really noticed any issues.
07-18-2013, 01:07 PM   #8
Forum Member




Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Prince George, BC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 80
Almost need a space shuttle style preflight checklist before shooting. SR on/off - check. AF switch position - check. Metering mode - check. Exposure compensation - check. Focus point selection - check. Drive mode - check. ISO - check. ad nauseum

07-18-2013, 01:48 PM   #9
Pentaxian
Just1MoreDave's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,862
QuoteOriginally posted by Trigger Happy Quote
Almost need a space shuttle style preflight checklist before shooting. SR on/off - check. AF switch position - check. Metering mode - check. Exposure compensation - check. Focus point selection - check. Drive mode - check. ISO - check. ad nauseum
This is especially true when you start to take more unusual shots. I was on vacation a couple of weeks ago and would start off the day with sunrise shots, ISO 200, some exposure compensation. Then a hike, back to 100 and reset compensation. Stop at a waterfall and use an ND filter for flowing water shots: M mode, 2 second delay, a lot of fiddling for the right shutter speed, AF off. The next shot might use fill flash to brighten up some deep shadows. By dinnertime I'm using ISO 1600, the 12 second timer, live view with CDAF. One night I used the interval timer for fireworks.

User mode can help with this in some cases.
07-18-2013, 02:10 PM   #10
Veteran Member
demp10's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Albums
Posts: 602
SR should be used only when handheld or on monopod. It must be off when on tripod or on special situations like panning. If you click the shutter button too fast, SR can and will introduce blur as it is trying to stabilize. You must wait until the hand icon in the viewfinder is on.

The main advantage of Live View is that focusing can be done more accurately (autofocus or manual) and can be checked visually under magnification. Accurate focus will produce sharper images. Main disadvantages include difficult to see the LCD in bright outdoor conditions, significant time lag and most importantly it will drain the batteries in record time depending how long you keep the LV on to focus and compose.LV is best suited when using the camera on a tripod, shooting stationary objects and want to nail focus. Portraits and macros are good examples.
07-18-2013, 03:05 PM   #11
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,400
QuoteOriginally posted by SgtSmurf Quote
Hello,
Are there any other tips for taking sharp pictures aside from the more obvious use of tripod, and shutter speed?

Thanks
Its a shame everyone has jumped on the bandwagon and slammed different aspects of SR as opposed to answering this question for the OP

The biggest thing is your technique. It is much the same as a sniper . If possible, fond something to either lean against for support of to rest the camera on for support. Learn to stand properly, and hold the camera properly.arms against your sides, camera at the eye, not using live view at arms length, feet apart when standing. Hold grip/shutter with one hand , other hand under the mass of the lens, breath slowly and shoot while breathing out.
07-18-2013, 03:10 PM   #12
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,149
My main cameras don't even have shake reduction, and I've been shooting available light hand-held down to 1/15 (or 1/8) second for 50 years. True, the K-5 with SR makes it even more reliable, but good technique is needed too. I always use the left hand directly under the lens-body as main support so the weight isn't cantilevered (which magnifies movements), press the camera against the face as added support, keep elbows close to the body when possible, and when available lean against something to steady. Oh - and practice a lot to find out what works for you. Arms-out live-view use is disaster by comparison - but that's why many think SR is a must.
07-19-2013, 09:44 AM   #13
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,149
Examples of non-SR slow speeds

Just to revisit this a bit: "sharpness" is never absolute, so the issue is "acceptable sharpness" for the image and viewing conditions. In this age we magnify images (pixel-peep) to greater levels than we ever did with film, so being hyper-critical can find a but of blur that we never would have noticed before at normal viewing distance for a print. The old rule of thumb was to use a shutter speed faster than 1/Focal Length of the lens; or 1/50th for a 50mm, 1/90th for a 90mm lens, etc. But as I said above technique of holding and shooting makes a huge difference. When I said I used 1/15th hand-held without SR, I mean that it provides what I deem as acceptable sharpness for the way I use the pictures, but if you pixel-peep it won't be as sharp as a higher shutter speed. But if the picture still has the effect I want, so what?
Here are some illustrations of what I accept at different shutter speeds. This is a handy way to test your steadiness as well: shooting a mirror hand-held with the ISO and lens set to give you the speed you want to try. With digital it is easy to practice and work at improving. For this I used a Leica M9 (which has no SR) with a 90mm f4 lens; so the rule of thumb would be to stay above 1/90 sec speed. But here's a snapshot at 1/15th sec handheld, free-standing:
Name:  90mm15th.jpg
Views: 160
Size:  200.2 KB
No, it isn't perfectly sharp, but is acceptable for normal viewing. For those who pixel-peep, here's a 100% crop to show the amount of blur, followed by crops taken at 1/25th and 1/60th second for comparison.
1/15th second, 90mm
Name:  1-1_90mm 15th.jpg
Views: 172
Size:  252.7 KB
1/25th second, 90mm
Name:  1-1_90mm 25th.jpg
Views: 183
Size:  265.1 KB
1/60th second 90mm
Name:  1-1_90mm 60th.jpg
Views: 170
Size:  282.3 KB
I didn't see a need to go faster than 1/60, as the differences would be slight.
So practice, and find out how much your technique can improve.
BTW - these were all shot at f4 - wide open, so there can be a focus variation with body sway as well. The M9 has no way to tell the actual fstop used, but approximates based on brightness compared to external sensor. I varied ISO to change shutter speeds.

Last edited by TomB_tx; 07-19-2013 at 09:57 AM.
07-19-2013, 01:36 PM   #14
Veteran Member
demp10's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Albums
Posts: 602
To truly evaluate your technique and see how much SR can help, you should take a reference image of a stationary subject with the camera on a good tripod, SR off, LV focusing with manual confirmation at 6X zoom and using the 2sec timer. Use the optimum aperture for the lens for best overall image quality.

Then take a number of pictures handheld using AF and SR with different camera holding techniques and see which one provide the best results. Just take at least 3 pictures with each technique to avoid any random successes or failures.

You should use "pixel peeping" to evaluate the results. Lightroom provides an excellent tool to do X/Y comparisons while zooming and panning with both images linked.

One thing that will become evident almost immediately is how much sharper is the image taken using the tripod and manually focused spot-on.
07-19-2013, 05:48 PM   #15
Forum Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 93
SR should definitely be ON unless using a tripod, as mentioned before. Try to keep the shutter around 1/40 or faster; it's really a trial and error process.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, pentax help, photography, reduction, shake
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reducing flash zoom motor noise slip Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 2 01-31-2013 10:07 AM
reducing clipping in raw slip Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 7 06-06-2012 10:41 AM
Reducing light reflections inside the hood? RickyFromVegas Photographic Technique 4 02-27-2012 09:26 PM
Help reducing blur for a newbie? davea66 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 24 01-10-2012 05:21 AM
Resizing (Reducing) Images In Photoshop Elements reivax Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 13 09-29-2011 11:05 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:36 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top