First 50mm manual lens?

edgedemon · 07-31-2013, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by aurele

Because the Canon screen is made for critical manual focus with very fast lens, the Pentax is made for f4-5.6 lenses.

Ahh OK

Which Canon model should I be looking at to get the same size screen as a K30?

VisualDarkness · 07-31-2013, 06:56 AM

The EE-s screen from focusingscreen.com

altopiet · 07-31-2013, 06:59 AM

If I was in your place, I would concentrate first on the manual lens and see if it suits me. The K-30 has an excellent OVF, and you have focus peaking in LV which shows the DOF as you focus. If you change your focus screen now and like the 50/1.4, the chances are good that you'll buy some other old lenses, even preset lenses, and if you stop down more than f8, you have black out problems, and you can't use CIF. I tried the split screen route on my K-x, but since I started using the K-30, never even contemplated going that route again. You can always change the focus screen in the future, but if you change it now and don't like manual lenses, it'll be a waste of time and money in the end, IMO.

Na Horuk · 07-31-2013, 07:06 AM

Those websites sell Canon and Nikon and other focusing screens cut down for your Pentax DSLR model. So you can buy a Canon S type cut down for Pentax K-30.
Katzeye is also very popular on this forum.
If you ask me, buying an f1.2 just for shallow DoF is.. well.. kind of a waste of a great lens. You can get a "creative focus" lensbaby or something like that for an exclusive use. But, you know, whatever floats your boat. Im sure you will be plenty happy with f1.7 or f1.4 in the mean time.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 07-31-2013 at 07:24 AM.

cyclone3d · 07-31-2013, 07:16 AM

I would just try it wothout getting a focusing screen first.

I have an FA 50 1.4 and can focus just fine and see the DOF just fine with my K30.

I also have a few other 1.4 lenses and the DOF is easy to see with the K30 stock screen.

Also, if i can see the DOF with a 55mm or 90mm 2.8 macro at f2.8 and 1:1 reproduction ratio with the K30 stock screen, then it should work just fine for a 1.2 lens.

**THoog** · 07-31-2013, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by edgedemon

Am I missing something here, why are you buying a canon screen for a Pentax camera when they do Penax screens?

The Pentax screens are actually cut down from screens made for/by Canon. Likewise, the K2/K3 split-prism screens sold by focusingscreens.com (and Katzeye, I think) are actually Nikon-made screens, but cut down to fit a Pentax.

**THoog** · 07-31-2013, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by edgedemon

Ahh OK

Which Canon model should I be looking at to get the same size screen as a K30?

Don't worry about the Canon model, just get the EE-S type screen for a K-30. it will be cut down to kit the K-30.

**paulh** · 07-31-2013, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by altopiet

If I was in your place, I would concentrate first on the manual lens and see if it suits me. The K-30 has an excellent OVF, and you have focus peaking in LV which shows the DOF as you focus. If you change your focus screen now and like the 50/1.4, the chances are good that you'll buy some other old lenses, even preset lenses, and if you stop down more than f8, you have black out problems, and you can't use CIF. I tried the split screen route on my K-x, but since I started using the K-30, never even contemplated going that route again. You can always change the focus screen in the future, but if you change it now and don't like manual lenses, it'll be a waste of time and money in the end, IMO.

Good advice here - don't put the cart before the horse. Get yourself an M50/1.7 or 1.4 (don't overlook the fine K55/1.8) and see whether the manual-focus thing is for you. The K30 focus screen may work fine for you. If not, and you really enjoy MF, then look for a replacement focusing screen.

**baro-nite** · 07-31-2013, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by paulh

Good advice here - don't put the cart before the horse. Get yourself an M50/1.7 or 1.4 (don't overlook the fine K55/1.8) and see whether the manual-focus thing is for you.

Agreed, good advice. I didn't mean to suggest you should buy the screen right away, just that you should include that possibility in your budget. The advice to consider the K55/1.8 is also good; among other virtues it is a very handy portrait lens on APS-C.

edgedemon · 07-31-2013, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by paulh

Good advice here - don't put the cart before the horse. Get yourself an M50/1.7 or 1.4 (don't overlook the fine K55/1.8) and see whether the manual-focus thing is for you. The K30 focus screen may work fine for you. If not, and you really enjoy MF, then look for a replacement focusing screen.

Good advice, lens has been ordered, I will wait and see how it goes

Thank you for the help everyone

Takumar55 · 07-31-2013, 08:28 AM

I'm actually in a similar situation to you, except that I already have manual lenses given to me. (Although having said that, I just picked up the 50 1.7 off ebay). I also have the K-30. I heartily agree with the great comments here on the need for and use of a new focusing screen.

I've found that I can't manually focus these accurately - at least at the level of precision I want in the final product; whether it's due to the stock focus screen or my eyes, I don't know. I've played with my automatic lenses, too, and there is still too much "play" in the focus range with the standard K-30 focus screen. I've been strongly considering the Canon EE-S focus screen cited above (there is a great thread on it here somewhere), but have been holding off until I am sure I need it for both the reasons of potential side effects (darkened viewfinder) and the trouble of installing. In the meantime, I've been playing with taking advantage of focus confirmation and focus peaking.

I think it's good advice to try these features out first and see how they work for you. Then you can decide whether to dive into the new focus screen.

**Just1MoreDave** · 07-31-2013, 09:42 AM

I found that I can focus fast lenses with the stock screen, but it takes some practice and estimation. The stock screen stops showing an accurate depth of field at f2.8 - some people say f4, you can check it yourself. When using an aperture wider than that, you have to see the depth of field in the viewfinder and estimate how much less will be in focus in the actual shot. It does work and is a valuable skill. It is challenging to learn that at the same time as all the other manual lens skills such as using the aperture ring, green button, M mode and adapting to the different metering. Oh, and taking a well-composed shot too. The A series lenses are nice for this practice because the camera still works almost the same as with the kit lens, except for focusing. Even after practice and using a lens like my Pentax-A 50mm f1.4, I'm still slower and working harder than I am with a non-stock focus screen.

The S-type focusing screen is great because it shows you the actual depth of field to f1.4 or so. You can see that so much more clearly that estimating is easy for faster (f1.2) lenses. I think it makes manual focus a lot more enjoyable and practical.

edgedemon · 07-31-2013, 11:37 AM

It is a good job that Im determined to get the hang of this manual malarky or I would be running for hills right now with my camera firmly stuck on auto.

The whole 'guessing at focus' intrigues me, and shows me how much I have to learn.
I usually shoot in AV mode, and (waiting for some of you to slap your heads in frustration) I don't really notice DoF, I tend to select an aperture based on how blurry I want the background (allowing for light) and shoot. I don't think I have ever used the preview button, and I have never tried live view either

Oh will, this manual lens will certainly cause me some pain - should be fun!

Kozlok · 07-31-2013, 12:34 PM

My technique is very effective: set camera on high speed burst, press shutter button halfway, use the focus confirmation beep to know I'm pretty close, recompose if needed, and I blast away taking 10 shots or so while slowly moving the focus ring. One of them is usually right on. Sometimes the one I like best is actually focused in a different place than I had intended.

Sometime I go slow, and use the hexagon (wait for a steady-on hexagon), and take only 1 or 2 shots. Then my keeper rate is around 80% without really even straining to see for sure if it's in focus. When I'm very close at large aperture, I actually micro focus by moving in and out from the subject slightly until I get the green hexagon.

**baro-nite** · 07-31-2013, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by edgedemon

It is a good job that Im determined to get the hang of this manual malarky or I would be running for hills right now with my camera firmly stuck on auto.

Originally posted by edgedemon

The whole 'guessing at focus' intrigues me, and shows me how much I have to learn.

What Dave's referring to is that since the VF (with the stock screen) looks about like f/3.5, if you're shooting wider than that you can still nail focus by focusing in and out and figuring out where the center of the focus zone is. Even with the S-type screen you have to do this to some degree at f/1.2.

Originally posted by edgedemon

I usually shoot in AV mode, and (waiting for some of you to slap your heads in frustration) I don't really notice DoF, I tend to select an aperture based on how blurry I want the background (allowing for light) and shoot. I don't think I have ever used the preview button, and I have never tried live view either

Sounds a lot like me.

Av mode is great, and you can keep using it even with an M lens when you want to shoot wide open. I don't use the DOF preview either. Live view sometimes; I'd use it more if the K-5 had a better implementation.

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07-31-2013, 06:51 AM	#16
edgedemon Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London Photos: Albums Posts: 309 Original Poster	Originally posted by aurele Because the Canon screen is made for critical manual focus with very fast lens, the Pentax is made for f4-5.6 lenses. Ahh OK Which Canon model should I be looking at to get the same size screen as a K30?

07-31-2013, 06:56 AM	#17
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	The EE-s screen from focusingscreen.com

07-31-2013, 06:59 AM	#18
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	If I was in your place, I would concentrate first on the manual lens and see if it suits me. The K-30 has an excellent OVF, and you have focus peaking in LV which shows the DOF as you focus. If you change your focus screen now and like the 50/1.4, the chances are good that you'll buy some other old lenses, even preset lenses, and if you stop down more than f8, you have black out problems, and you can't use CIF. I tried the split screen route on my K-x, but since I started using the K-30, never even contemplated going that route again. You can always change the focus screen in the future, but if you change it now and don't like manual lenses, it'll be a waste of time and money in the end, IMO.

07-31-2013, 07:06 AM	#19
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Those websites sell Canon and Nikon and other focusing screens cut down for your Pentax DSLR model. So you can buy a Canon S type cut down for Pentax K-30. Katzeye is also very popular on this forum. If you ask me, buying an f1.2 just for shallow DoF is.. well.. kind of a waste of a great lens. You can get a "creative focus" lensbaby or something like that for an exclusive use. But, you know, whatever floats your boat. Im sure you will be plenty happy with f1.7 or f1.4 in the mean time. Last edited by Na Horuk; 07-31-2013 at 07:24 AM.

07-31-2013, 07:16 AM	#20
cyclone3d Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 511	I would just try it wothout getting a focusing screen first. I have an FA 50 1.4 and can focus just fine and see the DOF just fine with my K30. I also have a few other 1.4 lenses and the DOF is easy to see with the K30 stock screen. Also, if i can see the DOF with a 55mm or 90mm 2.8 macro at f2.8 and 1:1 reproduction ratio with the K30 stock screen, then it should work just fine for a 1.2 lens.

07-31-2013, 07:42 AM	#21
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by edgedemon Am I missing something here, why are you buying a canon screen for a Pentax camera when they do Penax screens? The Pentax screens are actually cut down from screens made for/by Canon. Likewise, the K2/K3 split-prism screens sold by focusingscreens.com (and Katzeye, I think) are actually Nikon-made screens, but cut down to fit a Pentax.

07-31-2013, 07:44 AM	#22
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by edgedemon Ahh OK Which Canon model should I be looking at to get the same size screen as a K30? Don't worry about the Canon model, just get the EE-S type screen for a K-30. it will be cut down to kit the K-30.

07-31-2013, 08:12 AM	#23
paulh Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 33,268	Originally posted by altopiet If I was in your place, I would concentrate first on the manual lens and see if it suits me. The K-30 has an excellent OVF, and you have focus peaking in LV which shows the DOF as you focus. If you change your focus screen now and like the 50/1.4, the chances are good that you'll buy some other old lenses, even preset lenses, and if you stop down more than f8, you have black out problems, and you can't use CIF. I tried the split screen route on my K-x, but since I started using the K-30, never even contemplated going that route again. You can always change the focus screen in the future, but if you change it now and don't like manual lenses, it'll be a waste of time and money in the end, IMO. Good advice here - don't put the cart before the horse. Get yourself an M50/1.7 or 1.4 (don't overlook the fine K55/1.8) and see whether the manual-focus thing is for you. The K30 focus screen may work fine for you. If not, and you really enjoy MF, then look for a replacement focusing screen.

07-31-2013, 08:24 AM	#24
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	Originally posted by paulh Good advice here - don't put the cart before the horse. Get yourself an M50/1.7 or 1.4 (don't overlook the fine K55/1.8) and see whether the manual-focus thing is for you. Agreed, good advice. I didn't mean to suggest you should buy the screen right away, just that you should include that possibility in your budget. The advice to consider the K55/1.8 is also good; among other virtues it is a very handy portrait lens on APS-C.

07-31-2013, 08:25 AM	#25
edgedemon Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London Photos: Albums Posts: 309 Original Poster	Originally posted by paulh Good advice here - don't put the cart before the horse. Get yourself an M50/1.7 or 1.4 (don't overlook the fine K55/1.8) and see whether the manual-focus thing is for you. The K30 focus screen may work fine for you. If not, and you really enjoy MF, then look for a replacement focusing screen. Good advice, lens has been ordered, I will wait and see how it goes Thank you for the help everyone

07-31-2013, 08:28 AM	#26
Takumar55 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 120	I'm actually in a similar situation to you, except that I already have manual lenses given to me. (Although having said that, I just picked up the 50 1.7 off ebay). I also have the K-30. I heartily agree with the great comments here on the need for and use of a new focusing screen. I've found that I can't manually focus these accurately - at least at the level of precision I want in the final product; whether it's due to the stock focus screen or my eyes, I don't know. I've played with my automatic lenses, too, and there is still too much "play" in the focus range with the standard K-30 focus screen. I've been strongly considering the Canon EE-S focus screen cited above (there is a great thread on it here somewhere), but have been holding off until I am sure I need it for both the reasons of potential side effects (darkened viewfinder) and the trouble of installing. In the meantime, I've been playing with taking advantage of focus confirmation and focus peaking. I think it's good advice to try these features out first and see how they work for you. Then you can decide whether to dive into the new focus screen.

07-31-2013, 09:42 AM	#27
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	I found that I can focus fast lenses with the stock screen, but it takes some practice and estimation. The stock screen stops showing an accurate depth of field at f2.8 - some people say f4, you can check it yourself. When using an aperture wider than that, you have to see the depth of field in the viewfinder and estimate how much less will be in focus in the actual shot. It does work and is a valuable skill. It is challenging to learn that at the same time as all the other manual lens skills such as using the aperture ring, green button, M mode and adapting to the different metering. Oh, and taking a well-composed shot too. The A series lenses are nice for this practice because the camera still works almost the same as with the kit lens, except for focusing. Even after practice and using a lens like my Pentax-A 50mm f1.4, I'm still slower and working harder than I am with a non-stock focus screen. The S-type focusing screen is great because it shows you the actual depth of field to f1.4 or so. You can see that so much more clearly that estimating is easy for faster (f1.2) lenses. I think it makes manual focus a lot more enjoyable and practical.

07-31-2013, 11:37 AM	#28
edgedemon Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London Photos: Albums Posts: 309 Original Poster	It is a good job that Im determined to get the hang of this manual malarky or I would be running for hills right now with my camera firmly stuck on auto. The whole 'guessing at focus' intrigues me, and shows me how much I have to learn. I usually shoot in AV mode, and (waiting for some of you to slap your heads in frustration) I don't really notice DoF, I tend to select an aperture based on how blurry I want the background (allowing for light) and shoot. I don't think I have ever used the preview button, and I have never tried live view either Oh will, this manual lens will certainly cause me some pain - should be fun!

07-31-2013, 12:34 PM	#29
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148	My technique is very effective: set camera on high speed burst, press shutter button halfway, use the focus confirmation beep to know I'm pretty close, recompose if needed, and I blast away taking 10 shots or so while slowly moving the focus ring. One of them is usually right on. Sometimes the one I like best is actually focused in a different place than I had intended. Sometime I go slow, and use the hexagon (wait for a steady-on hexagon), and take only 1 or 2 shots. Then my keeper rate is around 80% without really even straining to see for sure if it's in focus. When I'm very close at large aperture, I actually micro focus by moving in and out from the subject slightly until I get the green hexagon.

07-31-2013, 12:48 PM	#30
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	Originally posted by edgedemon It is a good job that Im determined to get the hang of this manual malarky or I would be running for hills right now with my camera firmly stuck on auto. Originally posted by edgedemon The whole 'guessing at focus' intrigues me, and shows me how much I have to learn. What Dave's referring to is that since the VF (with the stock screen) looks about like f/3.5, if you're shooting wider than that you can still nail focus by focusing in and out and figuring out where the center of the focus zone is. Even with the S-type screen you have to do this to some degree at f/1.2. Originally posted by edgedemon I usually shoot in AV mode, and (waiting for some of you to slap your heads in frustration) I don't really notice DoF, I tend to select an aperture based on how blurry I want the background (allowing for light) and shoot. I don't think I have ever used the preview button, and I have never tried live view either Sounds a lot like me. Av mode is great, and you can keep using it even with an M lens when you want to shoot wide open. I don't use the DOF preview either. Live view sometimes; I'd use it more if the K-5 had a better implementation.