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08-30-2013, 10:20 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Jaque Quote
"Preset"? Really?? I'm not at all familiar with the term nor fully understand what it implies.
Not to be confused with "automatic" I assume...???
Will have to check out link provided and try to get educated.
.
Ok, lenses 101 course

The are many types of aperture control.

Manual aperture where you simply turn the aperture ring and the lens stops down, but to focus you need to turn the ring back so you can focus wide open, exposure on old cameras was a pain because it meant you had to count clicks from maximum aperture

Then the was preset, these lenses have 2 aperture rings. One which is fairly stiff and has clicks, but moves nothing in the lens, and a second stopping down ring, that is easier to turn. The idea here is you select your shooting aperture with the stiff ring, focus wide open, and with the stopping down ring, after you focus, you stop the lens down and shoot. Tis had the advantage of always stopping down to the correct place. These lenses, for control had the apertures far forward in the lenses .(we'll come back to that)

Then there was the first auto aperture lenses. These allowed you to take a light meter reading (usually with a hand held meter as this was before in camera metering) make shutter speed and aperture settings but the lens was held wide open by the camera body, and only stopped down the instant before the shutter opened. To make the automatic aperture the lens formulas changed to locate the aperture further back towards the mount, roughly where it is in modern lenses. In cameras with light meters, you would need to stop down to meter, then reopen the aperture to focus, but the lens still stopped down automatically when shooting.

The next progression was open aperture metering, where you set the aperture on the ring, and there was a link to the light meter, so it knew where you set it, and it calculated the correct exposure for when the lens would stop down.

In all these cases, the aperture is controlled by the lens, and the camera only opens and closes it.

In the mid 1980's camera body aperture control appears, and a new "automatic" aperture was born, the camera body through the activation lever, controlled how much the aperture stopped down, not the lens. This is what today is referred to as auto aperture.

Back to presets, the unique feature of most preset lenses, aside from the rather forward placement of the aperture itself, is that they had lots of aperture blades so the aperture was always round, unlike today's lenses that have between 5 and 9 blades. The result is consistent out of focus circles of lights as opposed to hexagons, pentagons etc, and usually a much more pleasing "bokeh" or out of focus detail

08-30-2013, 10:23 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Jaque Quote
Have read where the "Green button" has to be set to function a certain way on some Pentax cameras. Do I need to set my Av +/- or AE-L buttons like that? If so - How?
The Av+/- button won't do anything for you with the old lenses and K100D. With some models, it does add a bias to the meter, but not for you. The AE-L button should work by default to stop down the lens and set a shutter speed, only in M mode though. Cameras with a green button allow the button to do a lot of things. The Preview position on the power switch can be set to Optical or Digital Preview in the Custom menu. Optical Preview should work the same way that the AE-L button does - stops down the lens and suggests a shutter speed in M mode. I don't know what Digital Preview does with older lenses.

QuoteQuote:
On the "simulatror" site (thanks 4 the link BTW) I notice a bar exposure meter on the bottom of the viewfinder display, which makes life a lot easier to set exposure. Also settings are a piece of cake on that game - why doesn't my 100D work like that? My 100D lacks these features, or at least I don't know how to access them, so I'm pretty much blind about what settings I should be using and really can't figure out - other than adjusting the apeture ring - how to set them.
If the camera can communicate with the lens, the K100D will show a numerical Ev value in M mode at the far right corner which is the same information that the bar graph would show. It's numbers on a scale from -3.0 to +3.0. It doesn't show this display with the older lenses because it can't communicate with the lens. Even cameras with a bargraph-like display (K10D or newer top-tier models, some other newer older models) won't show the bargraph with older lenses.

QuoteQuote:
Setting the f stop on the lens seems to be a waste of time, as I can't get the shutter to fire when it's stopped down.
That is probably the camera's focus priority setting, Switch the AF-MF switch on the front left of the camera to MF and the shutter should fire. I mention this in my previous post in more detail.

QuoteQuote:
Using the AE-L button to sample and set usually results in a black screen for a picture. I'm not sure if the whiz wheel is setting the shutter speed or what it's doing - if anything. I did manage to set the arpeture allow etc. to the point where it will take a picture, and on the Tv setting I get a decent one now and then if the light is right.
In any mode except M, the e-dial won't do anything if the camera can't communicate with the lens. In M mode it should change the shutter speed.

QuoteQuote:
Flash is a waste of time as it wipes the shot out completely, and diminishing it in settings does not help.
The flash always fires at full power if the camera can't communicate with the lens. In M mode you can sort of control it by stopping down, but it's like driving a car with your left foot.

QuoteQuote:
Focus is harder to set than with the K1000 and it seems to want to focus a little behind where the viewfinder and the little blinking red square says it's focused.
That might be trouble. The focus screen can be adjusted by adding or removing shims to move it up and down. The AF sensors can be adjusted by three screws under the base plateof the camera. Neither adjustment is that easy, mostly a lot of trial and error. Even figuring out whether it's you or the camera is challenging.

You might have more fun buying or swapping one of your lenses for a Pentax-A series 50mm. The SMC Pentax-A 50mm f2.0 is the same optically as your M lens and would even work the same on the K1000. But it can communicate just one piece of information to the camera, and that opens up a lot of camera features. You can use all the modes, the displays are more useful, the flash works better, and life is just better.

Last edited by Just1MoreDave; 08-30-2013 at 10:50 AM.
08-30-2013, 12:23 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Jaque Quote
On the "simulatror" site (thanks 4 the link BTW) I notice a bar exposure meter on the bottom of the viewfinder display, which makes life a lot easier to set exposure. Also settings are a piece of cake on that game - why doesn't my 100D work like that? My 100D lacks these features, or at least I don't know how to access them,
Trust me. Each and every one of those controls exists in your dSLR. Get the manual and track down where each is accessed. Last time I looked, dSLRs don't have LCD panels the size of computer screens, so while the functionality is there, the physical control will be different. I'll also suggest downloading the pdf version of your manual from Pentax. You can use the Find feature on your computer's pdf reader to reduce the page flipping.

And while you can use manual lenses on your dSLR, there are a few extra steps. Do read the link given in the previous post that explains those steps.
08-30-2013, 07:03 PM   #34
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Ahah!; Now I get the "Pre-Set" thing. I was using those years ago, just didn't call them that. They were "Stop rings" or something like that. Come to find out my 35mm SPIRATONE WA uses that system as well.



They allow a tactile as well as visual reference to stop down the aperture with.

The top one is the "Click stop" ring while the lower ring actually sets the aperture / f-stop.

Hurrah!; in the mailbox today was my M-42 > K-mount adapter - about 4 days ahead of schedule!



And here is that dreaded little locking spring we've been hearing about:



(Took these with the little pocket Optio-80. Set it on teenie-tiny little flower and it does a credible job with close ups.)

Wound it on to the base of the 35mm to make sure that the threads are compatible - they are:


Following advice seen here, I installed it into the body first. Here we can see the edge of the locking spring in one of the slots. It's a cinch to release it for removal. The locking button on the side of the lens base does not seem to engage this ring at all.



With a drop of Ballistol synthetic oil (which I use on my guns; does not gum up or get sticky and attract grit like petro oils will) on the threads, the lens wound right on to the body.




Viola: ....

Now I see why the knock off rings have a "flange" around the base; probably to protect these little contact points around the lens port - like little spring mounted ball bearings:



If I ever do get a proper digital lens for this thing, I probably will want those contacts to be clean and undamaged. Since I do want to be able to focus out to inf. I'll just have to be careful.

I managed to take a couple of pictures with the 35mm lens, once I got the hang of doodling around with the aperture rings. The focus ring was so stiff that when I tried to turn it to the left it unscrewed the lens. After working some BALLISTOL - (The World's Most Use-ful & Environmentally Friendly Lubricant) under and around the rings and worked them back and forth a few times, they loosened up considerably and as long as the lens is wound in snugly, it seems to work. The FoV is a lot better than it was with the 50mm, but not quite as big as the little Optio.

You're right; this screw on lens is all manual all the time, and I've got a lot more homework to do before I start getting consistently decent shots out of it.

I'm a little disappointed in not being able to use the flash with the film lenses, so will have to keep the Optio-80 popshot in my pocket in low light environments apparently.

08-31-2013, 02:43 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Jaque Quote
Following advice seen here, I installed it into the body first. Here we can see the edge of the locking spring in one of the slots. It's a cinch to release it for removal. The locking button on the side of the lens base does not seem to engage this ring at all.
.
That's why it has a spring clip.
08-31-2013, 07:12 PM   #36
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It Works!

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
That's why it has a spring clip.

That's sort of what I finally figured out.

I just spent an hour composing a reply with illustrations, and when I went to post it said my message was too short (it wasn't) - try again - and all my work was vaporized. Stupid me; I should have known better and copy pasted to a text editor before trusting this forum set up with it. It's happened before - apparently one of my java scripts expired since the last time I posted.
After several more wipe outs, java tweaks and re pastes (got it saved this time) it seems that ajax.googleapis.com does the trick.
I'm not a big fan of google, but apparently it's allow that script or don't post to this forum. Oh well... here goes:

This isn't going to be what the original was, but in short:

It was quite a relief to discover just how easy it is to release that little spring clip lock mechanism and remove the ring; had read where some people using the knock offs had their rings about weld themselves on to their camera.

The only issue I've found is getting the lens wound in to the body with enough torque so that it doesn't want to unscrew when I focus - which it was doing. My focus ring was quite tight and sticky at first, but a liberal sacramental anointing of Ballistol and running it back & forth several time seems to have loosened it up appreciably and now the lens is staying put while I focus. Someone mentioned oiling the aperture leaves - how do you get to them in order to do that?

I discovered that this 35mm WA pre-set can be stopped down in M setting and the camera won't hold it open against my will as it does with other lenses. I'm re familiarizing with the operation of the double set and stop rings.

In order to compare FoV between this WA lens on the K-100D and the pocket Optio W80, I stood in the same place on the back porch and took identical shots at our victory garden.

Using the 100D I stopped it down to f16 @125th, ASA 400, and got a blackout. Opened up to f11 and got a good enough exposure to see how much garden fit into the frame - the next one would have been f8 but no need to.

.................

Then took the identical shot with the Optio:



We are getting a lot more FoV with the 35mm than we did with the 50mm, but still not as much as the Optio. I can live with that I guess.

From there I moved into our little "Wylde Orchard" - a patch of woods in which I discovered some old wild apple trees struggling amidst the jungle overgrowth, so I cleared around a few of them and last April experimented with grafting. The fruit of most wild apple trees is inedible for all intents and puposes, but you can graft just about any variety into them so we're giving it a whirl and I take photos periodically to keep track of growth on the grafts that took.

It was overcast and the light wasn't really great, so for the heck of it I decided to try the flash again for a little fill in.
Dave, I think it was, had mentioned that although it was problematic, the unregulated, hyperactive, full power all the time flash could be compensated for to some extent by stopping down the aperture.

Lo and behold; now I have a lens that can be stopped down - so down I stopped and popped a flash.

Much to my pleasure and surprise, at f11 it came out a lot better than I had expected.
All I had to do with this one was to crank up the contrast and sharpness a little (focus is still pretty dodgy) re size it and add text:

......................

That worked out so well that I decided to conduct further experimentation in the dimly lit garage.
Using the lawn tractor as my subject at about 2m, I deployed the flash and let fly - still set at f11:



Since that seemed a bit underexposed, I opened it up to f8 and took another crack at it:

...............................

Note how well focused the junk in the background is; now that's some serious DoF! A major improvement over what I was getting with the aperture stuck open all the time.

While shooting the tractor, sometimes the flash would fire and sometimes it wouldn't. I didn't see or hear a strope re-charging sound like some of the old strobes used to do, and I noticed a funny little flashing icon in my top LCD screen that looks like my Av button [+/-]. I didn't think that the Av button does anything in Manual mode, but I pushed it anyway and then the flash would fire with the shutter again. What's up with that?

Thanks again for all of you teaming up to try and help me get a clue; I actually think that I'm starting to at least sense a hunch here.

I still miss that good old reliable through the lens light meter on my K-1000, but now that I've figured out how to set both f stop and shutter speed (the whiz wheel does seem to work for that in M mode) I can at least guess at what settings to use, like I used to do back when I was shooting a lot of film. Now with digital feedback, I don't have to wait for a roll of 35mm to be used up and developed to see what I did right, and where I went wrong. By that time it was usually way too late to make corrections on the fly like we often can do with digital.

The transition has not been without frustration and angst, but it now appears that it might actually be possible.

Now to go out and take lots of pictures, keep experimenting, and hopefully that course I signed up for can build on what you guys have helped me learn. I'll try to keep you posted as we go. Still open to further suggestion!

Thanks again!
08-31-2013, 08:07 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Jaque Quote
Someone mentioned oiling the aperture leaves - how do you get to them in order to do that?
Oil on the aperture blades is what you don't want. On a preset lens it doesn't matter, but on an auto-aperture lens oil will make the blades sluggish.
09-01-2013, 05:02 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Jaque Quote

Snip.....
I'm a little disappointed in not being able to use the flash with the film lenses, so will have to keep the Optio-80 popshot in my pocket in low light environments apparently.
Actually you san still use flash, the flash on the camera fires at full power so you have to do manual calculations. The flash has a GN of about 13-16 depending on camera. This is at ISO 100 and F1

Distance = GN / aperture so at F4 for example the built in flash is good at about 3.5-4 meters. It's that simple

If you want metered flash get one with AUTO mode, or get an *istD which can shoot in Both TTL and P-TTL mode and is therefore compatible with legacy lenses

09-01-2013, 05:10 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Actually you san still use flash, the flash on the camera fires at full power so you have to do manual calculations. The flash has a GN of about 13-16 depending on camera....
Thanks for the formula - I'll have to write that down on a 3X5" and keep it in the camera bag. They will probably cover that as well in the class I'm taking in a couple of weeks.

I just took some studies of an old wood stove down cellar that we are about to give away and replace - I just guessed at f8.3 at 125th ASA 400 and *POP* - Zowwie;

............................

Closer in - stop down. Back off - open up a stop or two.

This isn't all that difficult after all!

QuoteQuote:
If you want metered flash get one with AUTO mode,..
Auto flash or lens? Would a metered / auto flash have to be mounted on the hot shoe?

QuoteQuote:
...or get an *istD which can shoot in Both TTL and P-TTL mode and is therefore compatible with legacy lenses
I looked at the istD while shopping around, but it seemed a little obsolete at the time and reviews were not all that hot. Had no idea that it might be more compatible with my old lenses than the 100D. Was looking for something as close to the K1000 in function as could be found, and not sure I hit it, really. If I find an *isD at a yard sale for around $50 or so I might pick it up to experiment with. I'm also casting about for a decent used Auto lens for it so I can get lazy (despite all the fun I'm having wrestling with the legacy glass). Any suggestions? Oh; where's the little "dummy" icon? .... What's P-TTL?

Another dumb question...; I've read about "Firmware" and that it needs to be "updated" occasionally.
How do I know if my 100D needs said updating, and if so how do I go about it?
09-01-2013, 05:17 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uncle Jaque Quote
How do I know if my 100D needs said updating, and if so how do I go about it?
Hold down the Menu button and turn on the camera. This will tell you the firmware version. The last version of the firmware for the K100D was 1.02. If you have an older version you can download 1.02 here.

Software Downloads : Support & Service | RICOH IMAGING

Instructions are on the download page.
09-01-2013, 07:13 PM   #41
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QuoteQuote:
=boriscleto;2496891]Hold down the Menu button and turn on the camera. This will tell you the firmware version. The last version of the firmware for the K100D was 1.02. If you have an older version you can download 1.02 ...
Well Sha-ZZAM!!! Ain't that nifty?!

Here it says I'm running version 1.00. Guess we've got some updating to do!

Thanks again!
09-01-2013, 09:00 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Hold down the Menu button and turn on the camera. This will tell you the firmware version. The last version of the firmware for the K100D was 1.02. If you have an older version you can download 1.02 here.

Software Downloads : Support & Service | RICOH IMAGING

Instructions are on the download page.
Thanks Boris; I was able to update to V. 1.02. The readme file that comes with the download explains the whole process.
It was a little tense for a while there as I don't have the AC adapter and if you run out of battery before the installation is complete (takes about a minute & a half) the "camera becomes inoperable" and has to be professionally repaired. That was a bit scary, but as my LED battery monitor showed a full charge I took the chance and got through it all right. I don't expect the camera to function much differently, but glad that the firmware is now up to date.
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