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08-26-2013, 06:07 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
Somebody else here implied that post processing/edit is essential to the serious photographer. There are many ways to use a camera and not all of them require much editing, so there is no wrong answer, I suppose, but I cannot ever recall seeing an "I got it right in the camera/no editing" picture that looked very good to me.
Just go the rest of the way and finish the job, people.
There is always post processing, the question is if you leave it up to camera settings or, if you take time to do it yourself. From what I've seen, Mike, you do a wonderful job with your images.

08-26-2013, 07:01 PM   #32
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+1 on stevebrots comments. Also I note that camera JPEGs are already post processed to what the camera manufacturer guesses is the average level of enhancement needed, if you want to take a purist argument. So utilising a camera JPEG is already breaking the purity argument. RAW is the unadorned negative. But, if you shoot RAW, then you are also committed to computer based post-processing. Given I find white balance is crtical to a good image, really there is no other way to go once you get serious about what you are doing.
08-26-2013, 07:17 PM   #33
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in this context, I found out I am a fan of in-camera post-processing.
Mainly I am too lazy to go to SilkyPix on the PC, but sometimes I am just not satisfied with the automatic PP that happens if I shoot in JPG.
So I used to switch between both, either "having to" PP in SilkyPix or just "be content" with standard JPG.

In-camera post-processing kind of fixes that. I either shoot RAW or RAW+, concentrating only on focus, exposure and composition. Then when I sit in the train or a cafe taking a break, having idle time, I take out the cam to choose what goes to B&W, what stays in color, choose my contrast and sharpness, and PP in-camera.

Then when I get to the PC, I do not have any more work to do.
And the results are good enough for an amateur like me.
I have not switched to this procedure entirely, since I am still adjusting myself to the new camera, but I think this will be my way to go.
08-26-2013, 10:23 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
Somebody else here implied that post processing/edit is essential to the serious photographer. There are many ways to use a camera and not all of them require much editing, so there is no wrong answer, I suppose, but I cannot ever recall seeing an "I got it right in the camera/no editing" picture that looked very good to me.
Just go the rest of the way and finish the job, people.
You obviously don't read my posts. I shoot almost exclusively JPEG and get it right most if not all the time. Much of my PP work, when I do it is not in sharpening, tweaking exposure, or color balance, but cropping either because shooting wildlife you can never seem to get close enough, or I accept that when I shoot there are things I cannot control that have to be cropped out later.

The cameras can produce excellent images without post processing, but cropping is now and always has been the biggest post processing tool used. Even with film, images were always cropped when printing.

08-26-2013, 10:34 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
...but cropping is now and always has been the biggest post processing tool used.
I am pretty sure that is a "post processing tool" that EVERYONE uses at least sometimes.
08-27-2013, 05:18 AM   #36
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I like to make the distinction between "processing" and "editing" and
the distinction is one of intent.

1. In "processing" the intent is visual accuracy. Is the red of that
rose the same red I saw with my naked eye? Is the amount of shadow
detail in the image the same as in the original scene and so on. Ideally
it's mainly an objective process where a well calibrated monitor becomes
important.

2. In "editing" the intent is subjective and creative. Should I shift
the hue and saturation of that rose slightly because of the interplay
between it and that soft pastel blue background? Should I clip the low
end of the tonal range slightly because it lends an air of mystery and
drama to the image by decreasing shadow detail? and so on.

Although you may be using the same software and pushing
around the same sliders in both I have found it helpful to keep in mind
which mode I am in.

So far as the RAW vs JPG debate -

All camera's are RAW shooters in the sense that they all first start out
with creating an image out of the unprocessed data from the sensor it's
just that some allow the option of saving that sensor data as a file for
later processing and some don't.

With a DSLR you have a choice between letting the camera do the
"processing" in the first sense, shooting in JPG, or shooting in RAW and
letting you and your software do the processing later.

For me the choice is a no-brainer - I'm a RAW shooter. I like the
control that digital gives me over chemical photography, shooting JPG or
RAW, but especially with the extended latitude that a RAW file gives me.
But I well understand that RAW may not be for everyone.

Just a few random early morning thoughts.......
08-27-2013, 05:27 AM   #37
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The question is starting to be framed as "Is there really anyone who doesn't use editing software?" It's starting to sound a little like an urban myth. (My friend told me about this guy he met who doesn't use editing software...I haven't met him myself, but this friend is very reliable."
08-27-2013, 11:57 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The question is starting to be framed as "Is there really anyone who doesn't use editing software?" It's starting to sound a little like an urban myth. (My friend told me about this guy he met who doesn't use editing software...I haven't met him myself, but this friend is very reliable."
Your friend is really stringing you along. Even going to a photo kiosk, it has an editor, you can frame prints, enlarge, crop etc... So what does he do with his photos. Shoot simply jpeg and load them into a photo frame? Maybe your friend met a guy who still shoots film

08-27-2013, 03:31 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Your friend is really stringing you along. Even going to a photo kiosk, it has an editor, you can frame prints, enlarge, crop etc... So what does he do with his photos. Shoot simply jpeg and load them into a photo frame? Maybe your friend met a guy who still shoots film
Ya know, sometimes when we say "a friend" we're really talking about ourselves, but it is possible Norm's sense of humor is a bit too dry. I have a friend whose dry humor gets him a whole lot of blank stares!

Back on topic, I'm a definite purist. I believe what goes on in the camera should stay in the camera. None of this editing, tweaking or printing silliness for me!
08-27-2013, 06:49 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamarley Quote
Ya know, sometimes when we say "a friend" we're really talking about ourselves, but it is possible Norm's sense of humor is a bit too dry. I have a friend whose dry humor gets him a whole lot of blank stares!
Hey!!!! I represent that statement. oops, I mean I have no idea what you're talking about. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
08-27-2013, 08:02 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote

Or do what this guy does....
How To Take Photos That Require No Post-Production

You'll notice it's a lot more work, for no noticeable benefit. Look at picture number 8 "Where's your focus" in the above article... how would that image not be improved by increasing the detail in the clothing in shadow in this image? You can read these kinds of things, but to most main stream photographers these guys are just kooks. Again in step 10, there's no detail in the woman's blouse. Fer god's sake dude, if you're going to promote no PP, at least show work where you were successful. Showing people that you can produce less satisfying results without PP, most of us already knew that. This guy doesn't know how bad his examples are... and most people who advocate no PP are in the same boat. His images simply aren't as good as he thinks they are.
His photos are a terrible advertisement for his philosophy, Normhead!

It's almost satire.

08-27-2013, 09:32 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
His photos are a terrible advertisement for his philosophy, Normhead!

It's almost satire...
I think it is a "she" but I agree with your premise.
08-27-2013, 09:36 PM   #43
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By my way of thinking, if you're not shooting in RAW, you're letting whatever camera you're using process your shot into a JPG anyway. "Evil" post processing has already been done! I use Lightroom to clean things up, then if I have to use another program I normally use PhotoPlus from Serif. I use Adobe Premiere Elements to edit video, so I figured I should use Photoshop Elements to edit my pix. Never could get the hang of it, so I went back to PhotoPlus.
08-28-2013, 04:32 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scott_G Quote
By my way of thinking, if you're not shooting in RAW, you're letting whatever camera you're using process your shot into a JPG anyway.
Yep. PP right there. And even hardware controls like White Balance are actually for the JPG. And what about Panorama and HDR modes?
08-28-2013, 05:23 AM   #45
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If it's a simple crop and resize I do like Paint.net - if I'm just sending an image to a phenology site or posting on social media sometimes this is adequate.

Otherwise, it's Lightroom 4. That's been a big boon to my processing. It's not only good, but more intuitive than most programs I've test-driven. The shadow recovery and highlight reduction alone make lots of images more useful - not to mention simple exposure correction.
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