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10-23-2013, 11:16 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
may I assume by your comments about highlight and shadow correction that they do not function for Raw images ?. I have tried turning them off and on, and i believe if highlight is turned off i can not change the iso to anything below 200.
I have run into this several times and only worked out the problem recently. changing back to auto highlight correction restored by ability to use iso 100. I know the iso isnt the brightness issue, but it does make for cleaner images.
If the highlight and shadow feature do not work on Raw then i can ignore those settings ?

DeWolf
Yes, it limits the ISO and is no use if you shoot RAW. Essentially it physically underexposes by one stop, and then the JPEG processor pulls the exposure back up while compressing highlights so that they don't blow into white so badly. Same as pulling afterwards from RAW with computer.

Dunno about those gamma calibration softwares, maybe someone else has an opinion about them? I've had one Fujitsu, two Viewsonics and now an Eizo display. All of them with MVA/PVA panels and they were quite OK after a bit of getting used to the settings. I would say find neutral looking settings from display itself and maybe set gamma from computer's display card settings a tad darker (higher gamma number), because usually the displays are a bit too bright in the shadow areas. My spyder calibrator also darkens shadows a bit.

10-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaeaetee Quote
Yes, it limits the ISO and is no use if you shoot RAW. Essentially it physically underexposes by one stop, and then the JPEG processor pulls the exposure back up while compressing highlights so that they don't blow into white so badly. Same as pulling afterwards from RAW with computer.

Dunno about those gamma calibration softwares, maybe someone else has an opinion about them? I've had one Fujitsu, two Viewsonics and now an Eizo display. All of them with MVA/PVA panels and they were quite OK after a bit of getting used to the settings. I would say find neutral looking settings from display itself and maybe set gamma from computer's display card settings a tad darker (higher gamma number), because usually the displays are a bit too bright in the shadow areas. My spyder calibrator also darkens shadows a bit.
Thanks for that information. I switched out the monitors and retired my 24" samsung with the off white screen. The Viewsonic is way brighter, and after considerable tweaking i got close to those calibration images being what they should be. Il check it tonight with some artificial back light in the room rather than the stark daylight i have during the day.

Also, after looking at hundreds of images I have previously taken I can tell that almost all the shots with blown out white were macro shots. I have been told this lens is a little high contrast. Not to sure how to adjust for that.
Also should i set the monitor for sRGB ?

Sorry for all the questions.

DeWolf
10-25-2013, 04:24 PM   #18
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well another puzzle. trying to shoot Raw format. in M < manual>. fixed ISO at 200, shutter 360, aperture 8.
took 6 images at varying exposure compensation ratios from +5 to -5. all are identical. what gives? the manual is clear as milk in places.
Im to assume that exposure compensation does not function for Raw, a lot of enlightening needed here if anyone is willing.
I am either thick as a brick, missing something, or who knows what lol. The EXIF shows 0 step and -5 step. yet both images are identical in brightness, colour and tone.
Sorry folks, this is a learning curve for me.

DeWolf
10-25-2013, 08:13 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
well another puzzle. trying to shoot Raw format. in M < manual>. fixed ISO at 200, shutter 360, aperture 8.
took 6 images at varying exposure compensation ratios from +5 to -5. all are identical. what gives? the manual is clear as milk in places.
Im to assume that exposure compensation does not function for Raw, a lot of enlightening needed here if anyone is willing.
I am either thick as a brick, missing something, or who knows what lol. The EXIF shows 0 step and -5 step. yet both images are identical in brightness, colour and tone.
Sorry folks, this is a learning curve for me.

DeWolf

You're in manual mode and have set the ISO, Shutter, and f-stop. Exposure compensation tells the camera to over or under expose in any of the auto or semi-auto modes by adjusting these values, and can't do diddly in M mode. You change the exposure in M mode by adjusting the ISO, Shutter, and f-stop yourself until the meter reads whatever you want it to.

It's possible it still stores the EV value in the Exif, even though it doesn't do anything in M mode. (see page 87 of your manual- and if you haven't already you might want to download the manual http://c758710.r10.cf2.rackcdn.com/files/support/manual/1340052607_Manual_K-30_EN.pdf it's much easier to search for stuff than the paper version)

10-26-2013, 03:49 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
You're in manual mode and have set the ISO, Shutter, and f-stop. Exposure compensation tells the camera to over or under expose in any of the auto or semi-auto modes by adjusting these values, and can't do diddly in M mode. You change the exposure in M mode by adjusting the ISO, Shutter, and f-stop yourself until the meter reads whatever you want it to.

It's possible it still stores the EV value in the Exif, even though it doesn't do anything in M mode. (see page 87 of your manual- and if you haven't already you might want to download the manual http://c758710.r10.cf2.rackcdn.com/files/support/manual/1340052607_Manual_K-30_EN.pdf it's much easier to search for stuff than the paper version)
ok . have tried reading the manual, sometimes its a little confusing. But it did mention no Exposure compensation in manual with ISO auto, and i had ISO fixed. but apparently it meant that too.
so, if i adjust the speed and/or aperture i see the Exposure compensation line go left or right as a solid line. so thats adjusting the exposure to compensate for the other settings. basically auto exposure, which is what im trying to avoid.
Ide like to intentionally under expose slightly, but seems changing any setting changes others to compensate. I will try something else in P mode today of its sunny.
Thank you for clarifying that issue in M mode

DeWolf
10-26-2013, 05:35 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
ok . have tried reading the manual, sometimes its a little confusing. But it did mention no Exposure compensation in manual with ISO auto, and i had ISO fixed. but apparently it meant that too.
so, if i adjust the speed and/or aperture i see the Exposure compensation line go left or right as a solid line. so thats adjusting the exposure to compensate for the other settings.
Manual mode + Auto ISO makes the camera behave like TAv mode, which has EV Compensation.

In Manual Mode + Fixed ISO, the camera has no control over shutter, f-stop, and ISO, they are what you set them to be. When you change one, the EV bar moves around to tell you how far the camera is from what it believes a 'correct exposure' is. It's not compensating, just informing.

That's really all the EV Bar is, the camera's meter telling you how far from 'correct' you are. In the auto modes and default EV compensation, it keeps adjusting parameters so the meter is at 0. EV compensation just forces it to aim for something other than 0. The EV Bar is just telling you where it's aiming for you in an auto mode, compared to manual mode where it's telling you where you've aimed.
10-26-2013, 09:08 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Manual mode + Auto ISO makes the camera behave like TAv mode, which has EV Compensation.

In Manual Mode + Fixed ISO, the camera has no control over shutter, f-stop, and ISO, they are what you set them to be. When you change one, the EV bar moves around to tell you how far the camera is from what it believes a 'correct exposure' is. It's not compensating, just informing.

That's really all the EV Bar is, the camera's meter telling you how far from 'correct' you are. In the auto modes and default EV compensation, it keeps adjusting parameters so the meter is at 0. EV compensation just forces it to aim for something other than 0. The EV Bar is just telling you where it's aiming for you in an auto mode, compared to manual mode where it's telling you where you've aimed.
epiphany.....
ok, now i understand what the EV comp actually is. It is not a separate entity of its own with specific control of its own. It is actually making a smart judgment and adjusting the aperture accordingly upward <smaller> to make the image darker. then i can adjust the speed and or aperture to the desired balance knowing that the EVcomp has increased one or the other to adjust the image exposure.
I had to watch the settings change in P mode to get this thru my thicker than usual skull. I think as we get older, skulls get thicker, brains get softer, and a lot more gray.
Also, why my images seem to never ever change has nothing to do with the camera in most cases. It seems CS2, when it opens a DNG makes an automatic exposure adjustment without my asking. If I uncheck the < auto> tik box it suddenly appears as it was shot.

lesson learned.

Thanks a GOB for yer help folks. I will endeavor to take some new shots over and under compensated and post them.

DeWolf
10-27-2013, 04:30 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
I have tried reducing the compensation and when the whites are ok the dark areas are to dark, and i mean way to dark.
I tried running it through PS CS6.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your problem but I just don't see any...


Last edited by wildman; 11-02-2013 at 05:07 AM.
10-27-2013, 05:22 AM   #24
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When buying a monitor for photos editing, you will be at odds with the needs of a gaming display. I had a 19" viewsonic die on me in the spring. I spent a little bit more to get an Asus model that is IPS-PRO technology. It's not ultra thin, it also switches slower than a gaming display but provides a more complete colour gamut, ie truer colours. It showed me where I was missing things on my old monitor immediately. It also showed the deficiency of my free editing software - subsequently replaced by LR4.

PA249Q - Monitors & Projectors - ASUS
10-27-2013, 05:37 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by dewolf Quote
epiphany.....
ok, now i understand what the EV comp actually is. It is not a separate entity of its own with specific control of its own. It is actually making a smart judgment and adjusting the aperture accordingly upward <smaller> to make the image darker. then i can adjust the speed and or aperture to the desired balance knowing that the EVcomp has increased one or the other to adjust the image exposure.
I had to watch the settings change in P mode to get this thru my thicker than usual skull. I think as we get older, skulls get thicker, brains get softer, and a lot more gray.
Also, why my images seem to never ever change has nothing to do with the camera in most cases. It seems CS2, when it opens a DNG makes an automatic exposure adjustment without my asking. If I uncheck the < auto> tik box it suddenly appears as it was shot.

lesson learned.

Thanks a GOB for yer help folks. I will endeavor to take some new shots over and under compensated and post them.

DeWolf
I strongly suggest you look for Bryan Peterson understanding exposure. EV Comp does not specifically do any thing with aperture. The camera tries to exposed a scene to 18%. By adjusting EV up or down you are telling the camera to over expose (+2 when shooting in snow for example). Scenes with large dynamic range can be composited from more than one shot (a handy use of exposure compensation). It's called HDR (a dark art to be avoided!!)
10-28-2013, 05:40 PM   #26
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Thanks again to everyone for their help.
seeing now how the settings change on this camera is making things much easier.
As promised 2 posts following <images>
At least on my system, the whites still have texture. Normally they would have been indistinguishable white blobs.
The slightly under exposed is so much easier to deal with.

These are unprocessed crops re-sized to fit here. no PP otherwise.

Thanks again to all.

DeWolf

Last edited by dewolf; 06-01-2016 at 08:10 PM.
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