Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #46
Veteran Member
DavidSKAF3's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tompkins County, NY
Photos: Albums
Posts: 542
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by phreon Quote
How many reviews have you seen where an f1.4 lens is dinged for being "hard to focus wide open"? Duh!

Hi! So, like, I am kind of new, and I want to get this joke. What's it refer to? Sorry but I'm really honestly serious, if you could explain it!

12-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #47
Junior Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 41
A f1.4 50mm lens (for example) wide open is going to have such a shallow depth of field that even autofocus won't be able to nail it every time. Yet somehow this is a fault of the manufacturer.
12-14-2013, 01:42 PM   #48
Veteran Member
DavidSKAF3's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tompkins County, NY
Photos: Albums
Posts: 542
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by phreon Quote
A f1.4 50mm lens (for example) wide open is going to have such a shallow depth of field that even autofocus won't be able to nail it every time. Yet somehow this is a fault of the manufacturer.


Got it. Thanks.


So if eventually I get a fast prime I should expect to have to manually focus when shooting very wide?
12-14-2013, 01:49 PM - 2 Likes   #49
Junior Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 41
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the distance to the subject, focal length of the lens, how accurate the AF system is, etc. Understanding Depth of Field in Photography and Understanding Your Camera’s Hyperfocal Distance


To me, when someone fixates on a bit of my gear and calls it or me "old school", I wonder if it means, "understands the fundamentals of photography".


Last edited by phreon; 12-14-2013 at 01:55 PM.
12-14-2013, 02:10 PM - 1 Like   #50
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2013
Photos: Albums
Posts: 112
Old school is wandering the streets with not just a Spotmatic (loaded with Kodak TX B&W no less) but TWO light meters strung around one's neck. Every shot I used both and I sure got some strange looks.....LOL (I think I've got that old Weston II dialed in...at least that's what the Gossen said but the real test is when the film comes back...)
12-14-2013, 02:10 PM   #51
Junior Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 41
Apparently, "old school" is knowing how to use your tools.
12-14-2013, 02:23 PM   #52
Veteran Member
DavidSKAF3's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tompkins County, NY
Photos: Albums
Posts: 542
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by phreon Quote
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the distance to the subject, focal length of the lens, how accurate the AF system is, etc. Understanding Depth of Field in Photography and Understanding Your Camera’s Hyperfocal Distance


To me, when someone fixates on a bit of my gear and calls it or me "old school", I wonder if it means, "understands the fundamentals of photography".

Okay. I bookmarked these links. Thanks for them.


Do you think it's possible to learn photography just by shooting a lot and trying different settings? Because to be frank I am not so big on lots of reading and book study, and it seems like my photography study and reading list is growing longer and longer and piling up big time! LOL
12-14-2013, 02:42 PM   #53
Junior Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 41
QuoteOriginally posted by davids8560 Quote
Okay. I bookmarked these links. Thanks for them.


Do you think it's possible to learn photography just by shooting a lot and trying different settings? Because to be frank I am not so big on lots of reading and book study, and it seems like my photography study and reading list is growing longer and longer and piling up big time! LOL
With a dSLR where you get immediate feedback, if you have the time, perhaps. Experimentation is to be encouraged, but I think it would take a long time to fully understand the nuances of proper exposure and technique without at least a basic primer to guide you though. Other people have published this stuff so you don't have to learn it all by trial and error. Though a bit dated in our digital world, the single best general photography book I've found was John Hedgecoe's, "The Photographer's Handbook". It was written in the film era, but all the basics about exposure, DoF, framing, perspective, basic lighting, etc are still relevant. If you can find it cheap, pick it up. The explanations are concise with plenty of illustrations and example photos.

Regarding DoF, remember these three rules of thumb:

Closer = less DOF.
Larger aperture (smaller number) = less DOF.
Longer lens = less DOF.

These are hard and fast. Sensor type and size is completely irrelevant. So many arguments I see about DoF, focal length, etc seem to come from folks who've never used a sensor larger than 35mm. APSC has such a huge DoF (at a given field of view [angle]) that the the effects of DoF and focal length aren't always immediately apparent. Talk to anyone who's dealt with Medium or Large format systems and they'll set you straight. Imager size (film or digital) HAS NO BEARING ON DoF! Simply put, to get the same field of view with a larger sensor, it takes a longer focal length. The "normal FoV" in APSC is about 30mm, full frame/35mm film is about 50mm and on something like a 6x7 (cm), it's 90mm. By the time you get to 8x10 (inches), to get the same FoV as full frame (35mm film) and a 50mm lens, you need a whopping 300mm lens! All these combinations will have the same field of view, but the large format camera will have razor thin DoF at the same f-stop and subject distance, relatively speaking.

Silverbased | Depth of Field: When Format Matters


Last edited by phreon; 12-14-2013 at 03:05 PM.
12-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #54
New Member




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coastal MS
Posts: 6
QuoteOriginally posted by phreon Quote
Apparently, "old school" is knowing how to use your tools.
I like to think of it more as not having to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to get simple functionality out of a camera. Canikon glass prices make me cringe. I prefer manual focus, anyway.
12-14-2013, 03:11 PM   #55
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,428
QuoteOriginally posted by JesseCuster Quote
I like to think of it more as not having to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to get simple functionality out of a camera.
Like so many thing today that come out of the freezer ready for the microwave. 26 cents worth of ingredients, 84 cents worth of packaging, sold for the bargain price of $4.89.
12-14-2013, 03:44 PM - 1 Like   #56
Pentaxian
Dartmoor Dave's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dartmoor, UK
Photos: Albums
Posts: 748
You're old school if:

You sigh with nostalgia when anyone mentions Kodachrome, and wish you could somehow shoot just one more roll.
You can load a camera with film in total darkness.
You own an incident meter and know how to use it.
You prefer your lenses with aperture rings, and can set any f-stop without looking.
You think ISO 400 is fast. (If you think ASA 64 is fast, you're REALLY old school.)
You don't use autofocus or autoexposure because they just slow you down.
You wish there was a modern camera exactly the same as the K1000 but digital.

I really wish there was a modern camera exactly the same as the K1000 but digital. But then I'm old school. . .
12-14-2013, 04:57 PM   #57
Veteran Member
DavidSKAF3's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tompkins County, NY
Photos: Albums
Posts: 542
Original Poster
Forgive me but I enjoyed reading your post and I am kind of new so now I would like to know apart from the absence of film what controls are so different between the K1000 and my K5 for example?
12-14-2013, 05:15 PM - 1 Like   #58
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Posts: 3,001
QuoteOriginally posted by davids8560 Quote
I ran into this CNN photographer and he looked at my K-5 and said, "So, Pentax! You're an old school kinda guy, huh!" He had a D300E.

So! Are we considered, "Old School?"

Just wonderin'!

I normally just say "No, I'm just into photography"

This leaves Canon/Nikon people wondering what they don't know.
12-14-2013, 07:53 PM   #59
Junior Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 41
QuoteOriginally posted by davids8560 Quote
Forgive me but I enjoyed reading your post and I am kind of new so now I would like to know apart from the absence of film what controls are so different between the K1000 and my K5 for example?
I'll preface this by saying the K3 is my first DSLR. I've dabbled with a few P&S digital cameras, but that's it. And the following is one man's opinion.

If you ignore the autofocus, auto exposure system and all the systems/controls supporting the sensor, nothing really. As it so happens, my primary SLR was the K1000 I bought with grass cutting money I saved up in 1987. The K3 has depth of field preview and mirror lockup, something K1000 lacked, but the nicer Pentax ME Super had back in the day did. The one important control the K5/K3 has that film cameras didn't is adjustable ISO (sensitivity). In the film days, you had to select film based on sensitivity, contrast, resolution (grain/noise), color vs. B&W, reversal vs. positive (slide) etc. Now most of these are selectable, but there are always trade-offs. Just like faster film was generally grainier, a sensor operated at higher sensitivity will be noisier.

All the other basics like focal length, aperture, shutter speed and focus are the same as they were when the first Daguerreotype was taken in 1838. Every camera has the same basics: a lens (group) to bend the light, a mechanism to bring it into focus, a light sensitive medium to record the image, a shutter (mechanical or digital) and aperture (which might be fixed or adjustible). If you understand the basics like the above mentioned relationship between DoF, focal length, etc, the brand and type of camera you use is largely irrelevant. It's just a matter of learning how it operates. You can learn to estimate exposure with your eye, use an incident meter, use the simple averaging meter in the ol' K1000 or the 86,000 pixel RGB metering sensor in the K3. I think one of the most important things to understand is all the extra whiz-bang features on a camera (multi-segment autofocus, multi-zone exposure, fuzzy logic, noise reductions) can be extremely helpful, but if you don't know the basics and/or you don't know how those extra features work, you will not be in control, the camera will be. For example the center weighted meter in the K1000 was far from perfect, but if you understood how it works and what its flaws and weaknesses were, it could be used to great effect.

Cameras don't take great photos, people do. Some of the great iconic photos of the 20th century were taken with cameras with fully manual controls, fixed lenses and *maybe* a basic light meter. Weegee with his Speed Graphic, Henri Cartrier-Bresson with his his Leica rangefinder and Ansel Adams lugging his 8x10 around rose to be considered masters at their craft with no automation whatsoever.

Last edited by phreon; 12-14-2013 at 08:15 PM.
12-14-2013, 08:25 PM   #60
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,428
QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
I really wish there was a modern camera exactly the same as the K1000 but digital. But then I'm old school
That's just stubborn. KX but digital is old school.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, pentax help, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Optical differences between Pentax "K", "M", and "A" lenses 6BQ5 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 31 01-10-2014 01:02 PM
Canon EOS-M Confession: "We blew it." interested_observer Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 7 12-18-2013 08:56 PM
Not Work-Safe Model asks "Can we do something weird and colorful?" Ed n Georgia Post Your Photos! 4 03-09-2013 04:23 AM
Are "we" sick of "this" jeffkrol General Talk 11 12-17-2010 08:49 AM
Removing those "old school" labels from your gear? jgmankos Photographic Technique 16 06-08-2010 01:43 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:01 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top