Are we "old school?"

**rbefly** · 12-03-2013, 07:46 PM - **1 Like**

Actually, I'm not surprised. I've had similar comments made to me twice, both times by young people. In neither case did I feel it was meant as an insult, in fact one time (by a young woman, who was part of a street scene I was photographing) it was followed by the statement 'I love that look!'. The other time a fellow (early 20's) said 'I'm glad they kept that style.'
It's taken me a while to understand exactly what they meant, but after noticing a few subtle design cues on the K-7 through K-3, here's what I've figured out. Most newer DSLR's (Canon and Nikon, particularly) have the slope-shouldered, heavily rounded body style, absolutely devoid of any hard or straight edges.
In auto design, it's called the 'soap bubble' or aero design, smooth and flowing, all contoured.
Now, look carefully at a K-7, K-5 (series) or K-3.
Notice that, from the pentaprism to the top deck, there's no 'shoulder'? The top deck is absolutely flat, horizontally. The shutterbutton/grip is sloped forward, but not 'sideways' as on many other cameras (again, no shoulder). This geometric or hard-edged contour is mirrored by the blunt sides, top and especially,front of the pentaprism. Put more simply, it's a 'box'. Not a bubble.
Even an earlier model, the K10D, has a slightly shouldered pentaprism-to-top-deck form, but is done in a squat, muscular style, heavy-looking and purposeful.
So I take these comments as compliments to a maker that is firmly rooted in history, legacy and tradition.
I wouldn't have it any other way!
Ron

V.rider · 12-04-2013, 06:41 PM - **1 Like**

Just wanted to say that it's not all young people. I'm 25 and just purchased a K-50. It was all the features I wanted, none of the fluff I didn't. Maybe I'm an old soul....

**PPPPPP42** · 12-04-2013, 07:47 PM

Actually I seem to get some sort of hipster street cred for lugging around vintage Pentax gear, the newest bit of my kit is the K20D itself but its essentially hidden behind the older glass so people aren't quite sure what I am using when they see me focusing a camera.
I frequently seem to outclass all the new folks trucking thousands of dollars in gear around with my little brown bodied K1000 loaded with Delta 400 B&W, my A35-105 F3.5 lens and a vintage camera strap that matches the camera. The brown body seems to baffle people though, everyone thinks they only came in black.
Everything else when compared to it just looks like a pretentious "look how great a photographer I am" attempt by someone with a high credit card limit.
Kinda funny but with the Super Program people who don't know anything about cameras always ask me how many megapixels it has.
Its odd that the little custom things, like having my light weight tripod over my shoulder on a rifle sling, makes me look like I have much more experience than I really do.

For the record I stick with Pentax because I am a manual everything person and with a Pentax DSLR on M mode and all my A series lenses its the best of both convenience and complete manual control.
And I'm old school.

Ilovemypentax · 12-04-2013, 08:08 PM

Old school? Don't know. I consider Pentax an 'underground' kinda thing.

If Pentax wanted to shake up the market. They should make a Leica FF knockoff. (affordable $2000 or so, true rangefinder)

**monochrome** · 12-04-2013, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Ilovemypentax

I consider Pentax an 'underground' kinda thing.

Like LaurenOE's recent "Underground" surprise!!

P.S. - don't let the laments about Ricoh in the early posts fool you - once she gets the K3 Lauren is over-the-top happy, even if she did gaffer tape the Ricoh.

cyberastrofolkie · 12-04-2013, 10:39 PM

I'm "Old School" as well. I prefer old used MF lenses, especially Tamron Adaptall-2s on my K20D in M. When I use the few AF lenses I own, they are used manually as well. I have noticed the cheaper AF lenses will usually AF "Within the Ballpark," but not crisp. I am usually able to get a crisp focus manually and faster. Has anyone else experienced this?

**TER-OR** · 12-05-2013, 06:22 AM

Among the reasons I chose Pentax was the ease of manual use and control layout. So yes, if knowing how to use the camera's settings makes us Old School then so be it. Wear that with pride, then check whether their camera is in full auto mode.

Last year I was taking some impromptu portraits of a co-worker at her request - down on the lakefront, very nice - and after looking through the viewfinder quickly changed modes and settings. 'You're the first person I've ever seen adjust settings on a camera.'

mrNewt · 12-05-2013, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by Heie

D800E* (not 300

)

And retort: "So, Nikon! 24% stock dive, huh!"

Taking this from the comments of that article: "I hope that this is just a wake up call for Nikon to step it up." ... I guess unhappy guys are in every brand

And there are quite a lot of comments like that in there... heh...

FrankC · 12-05-2013, 01:18 PM

If not for the earthquake in Japan and the tsunami that followed (which caused massive delays in the D800E's introduction), I'd be shooting Nikon right now. Instead I got a 645D because of it's IQ compared to what was available at the time of purchase from Nikon and Canon. Quite frankly, I wouldn't then or now give Pentax with their APS-only lineup a second thought.
I think pros don't use Pentax because Pentax has never really put out a full range of equipment that is better than Nikon or Canon. Not to say that they're stuff is 2nd rate, but N/C have so much of the market share that you'd be an idiot to shoot with Pentax while the guy to the right/left of you has a FF camera with faster focus, more FPS, and better glass. When your livelihood depends on getting the shot, then I'm sorry, but Pentax isn't the way to go.

DavidSKAF3 · 12-05-2013, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by FrankC

If not for the earthquake in Japan and the tsunami that followed (which caused massive delays in the D800E's introduction), I'd be shooting Nikon right now. Instead I got a 645D because of it's IQ compared to what was available at the time of purchase from Nikon and Canon. Quite frankly, I wouldn't then or now give Pentax with their APS-only lineup a second thought.
I think pros don't use Pentax because Pentax has never really put out a full range of equipment that is better than Nikon or Canon. Not to say that they're stuff is 2nd rate, but N/C have so much of the market share that you'd be an idiot to shoot with Pentax while the guy to the right/left of you has a FF camera with faster focus, more FPS, and better glass. When your livelihood depends on getting the shot, then I'm sorry, but Pentax isn't the way to go.

You make a very sensible, compelling argument!

I have been into photography for about 12 years now. Mostly bridge cameras. I knew they were toys, more or less, and so I tried to get into DSLR's a few times now. Started with a D70. Then an XTi and a T3i. Picked these cameras mostly from reviews. I liked the Nikon's output especially, but the D70 never "talked" to me, if that makes sense. Then one day I won a K-7 for like next to nothing on eBay. I knew nothing about Pentax. But I won this K-7 kit just by chance, and when it arrived in the mail and I took it out and powered it up I guess I really just liked it a lot. And I think I had it about a week before I realized I would prefer and be better off with a K-5. So I sold the K-7 for like three times what I paid for it and got a K-5. And I find the K-5 really somehow sort of "talks" to me. I know that sounds bizarre I suppose. But there is something about it that makes me want to use it, and deal the hassle of carrying it around, and finally learn how to use a DSLR. It's more engaging than the other DSLR's I've tried and lost interest in. Purely esoteric, I know. Nothing to do with FPS or sensor size or whatever. The main reason I figured the K-5 would be better for me is because of its low-light performance being so much better than the K-7. At least this is the case, according to the reviews. So I asked myself, what good is a weatherproof camera if it does poorly in low light, cloudy, shady conditions? I live in the NE USA, where it's often cloudy and rainy, so I just figured the K-5 would do better than the K-7 around these here parts! And that's how it happened.

And it's a little embarrassing to admit it, but, sometimes when I am sitting at my desk, doing nothing in particular, I just reach out and pick up the K-5, and just sort of admire it. Crazy, huh? But! I never did that with the Canon's and Nikon's I've tried! Hahaha

Anyway. Just my half a cent... I know, I'm pretty much just an inexperienced novice...

But I like the sensible way you expressed your views...

FrankC · 12-05-2013, 03:50 PM

davids8560 - I completely get what you mean. Some cameras can feel as if they're an extension of one's self. I had a similar reaction when I picked up a Leica M6 for the first time. Oh, sure, there's the "oh my God! it's a Leica" reaction, but that goes away fairly quickly. At the time I was using an EOS 1 and the Leica was so basic, so low-tech that it reminded me of just how all of the bells and whistles of a then modern AF film camera had insulated me from the experience of making a photograph. With the M6 I felt so connected with the process. I felt that I was actually making the image as opposed to just pushing a button to then have some inanimate object do it for me. The best way that I can describe it is that I felt like a craftsman as opposed to a button pusher. It reminded me of when I was 5 years old and picked a Kodak Brownie and took a picture for the very fist time. Pure, unadulterated photography nirvana.

**c.a.m** · 12-05-2013, 04:21 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by davids8560

I just reach out and pick up the K-5, and just sort of admire it.

It does feel good to hold, doesn't it? If I haven't gone out on photo outing for several days, I'll pick up my K-5 ii and just take a few shots in the house!

- Craig

**TER-OR** · 12-06-2013, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by c.a.m

It does feel good to hold, doesn't it? If I haven't gone out on photo outing for several days, I'll pick up my K-5 ii and just take a few shots in the house!

- Craig

There's always the dogs, who can give such amusing looks when you shove a camera in their face...

OrchidJulie · 12-07-2013, 09:20 AM

@david -- I know exactly what you mean, and I've expressed it in this forum before... at work I have to use the company's D80. Decent camera (tho' I wish I had some additional lenses for it), but it never "spoke" to me. I use it, do what I have to do with it, but it never feels right in my hands. My Pentax does.

Yeah, old school, since Spotmatic days. And I can use the lenses from the Spottie on my K-r...

phreon · 12-08-2013, 11:35 AM

I have half a mind to always keep the RB67 or C330 in my backpack just for these kinds of encounters so I can pull 'em out and say, "Nah, I'm not old school, I just know how to use my brain to operate a camera".

12-03-2013, 07:46 PM - 1 Like	#16
rbefly Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Denver, Colorado Photos: Albums Posts: 2,030	Which School? Actually, I'm not surprised. I've had similar comments made to me twice, both times by young people. In neither case did I feel it was meant as an insult, in fact one time (by a young woman, who was part of a street scene I was photographing) it was followed by the statement 'I love that look!'. The other time a fellow (early 20's) said 'I'm glad they kept that style.' It's taken me a while to understand exactly what they meant, but after noticing a few subtle design cues on the K-7 through K-3, here's what I've figured out. Most newer DSLR's (Canon and Nikon, particularly) have the slope-shouldered, heavily rounded body style, absolutely devoid of any hard or straight edges. In auto design, it's called the 'soap bubble' or aero design, smooth and flowing, all contoured. Now, look carefully at a K-7, K-5 (series) or K-3. Notice that, from the pentaprism to the top deck, there's no 'shoulder'? The top deck is absolutely flat, horizontally. The shutterbutton/grip is sloped forward, but not 'sideways' as on many other cameras (again, no shoulder). This geometric or hard-edged contour is mirrored by the blunt sides, top and especially,front of the pentaprism. Put more simply, it's a 'box'. Not a bubble. Even an earlier model, the K10D, has a slightly shouldered pentaprism-to-top-deck form, but is done in a squat, muscular style, heavy-looking and purposeful. So I take these comments as compliments to a maker that is firmly rooted in history, legacy and tradition. I wouldn't have it any other way! Ron

12-05-2013, 02:01 PM	#25
DavidSKAF3 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Tompkins County, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 546 Original Poster	Originally posted by FrankC If not for the earthquake in Japan and the tsunami that followed (which caused massive delays in the D800E's introduction), I'd be shooting Nikon right now. Instead I got a 645D because of it's IQ compared to what was available at the time of purchase from Nikon and Canon. Quite frankly, I wouldn't then or now give Pentax with their APS-only lineup a second thought. I think pros don't use Pentax because Pentax has never really put out a full range of equipment that is better than Nikon or Canon. Not to say that they're stuff is 2nd rate, but N/C have so much of the market share that you'd be an idiot to shoot with Pentax while the guy to the right/left of you has a FF camera with faster focus, more FPS, and better glass. When your livelihood depends on getting the shot, then I'm sorry, but Pentax isn't the way to go. You make a very sensible, compelling argument! I have been into photography for about 12 years now. Mostly bridge cameras. I knew they were toys, more or less, and so I tried to get into DSLR's a few times now. Started with a D70. Then an XTi and a T3i. Picked these cameras mostly from reviews. I liked the Nikon's output especially, but the D70 never "talked" to me, if that makes sense. Then one day I won a K-7 for like next to nothing on eBay. I knew nothing about Pentax. But I won this K-7 kit just by chance, and when it arrived in the mail and I took it out and powered it up I guess I really just liked it a lot. And I think I had it about a week before I realized I would prefer and be better off with a K-5. So I sold the K-7 for like three times what I paid for it and got a K-5. And I find the K-5 really somehow sort of "talks" to me. I know that sounds bizarre I suppose. But there is something about it that makes me want to use it, and deal the hassle of carrying it around, and finally learn how to use a DSLR. It's more engaging than the other DSLR's I've tried and lost interest in. Purely esoteric, I know. Nothing to do with FPS or sensor size or whatever. The main reason I figured the K-5 would be better for me is because of its low-light performance being so much better than the K-7. At least this is the case, according to the reviews. So I asked myself, what good is a weatherproof camera if it does poorly in low light, cloudy, shady conditions? I live in the NE USA, where it's often cloudy and rainy, so I just figured the K-5 would do better than the K-7 around these here parts! And that's how it happened. And it's a little embarrassing to admit it, but, sometimes when I am sitting at my desk, doing nothing in particular, I just reach out and pick up the K-5, and just sort of admire it. Crazy, huh? But! I never did that with the Canon's and Nikon's I've tried! Hahaha Anyway. Just my half a cent... I know, I'm pretty much just an inexperienced novice... But I like the sensible way you expressed your views... Last edited by DavidSKAF3; 12-05-2013 at 02:22 PM.

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12-04-2013, 06:41 PM - 1 Like	#17
V.rider Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 43	Just wanted to say that it's not all young people. I'm 25 and just purchased a K-50. It was all the features I wanted, none of the fluff I didn't. Maybe I'm an old soul....

12-04-2013, 07:47 PM	#18
PPPPPP42 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Albums Posts: 947	Actually I seem to get some sort of hipster street cred for lugging around vintage Pentax gear, the newest bit of my kit is the K20D itself but its essentially hidden behind the older glass so people aren't quite sure what I am using when they see me focusing a camera. I frequently seem to outclass all the new folks trucking thousands of dollars in gear around with my little brown bodied K1000 loaded with Delta 400 B&W, my A35-105 F3.5 lens and a vintage camera strap that matches the camera. The brown body seems to baffle people though, everyone thinks they only came in black. Everything else when compared to it just looks like a pretentious "look how great a photographer I am" attempt by someone with a high credit card limit. Kinda funny but with the Super Program people who don't know anything about cameras always ask me how many megapixels it has. Its odd that the little custom things, like having my light weight tripod over my shoulder on a rifle sling, makes me look like I have much more experience than I really do. For the record I stick with Pentax because I am a manual everything person and with a Pentax DSLR on M mode and all my A series lenses its the best of both convenience and complete manual control. And I'm old school.

12-04-2013, 08:08 PM	#19
Ilovemypentax Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 121	Old school? Don't know. I consider Pentax an 'underground' kinda thing. If Pentax wanted to shake up the market. They should make a Leica FF knockoff. (affordable $2000 or so, true rangefinder)

12-04-2013, 08:33 PM	#20
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Ilovemypentax I consider Pentax an 'underground' kinda thing. Like LaurenOE's recent "Underground" surprise!! P.S. - don't let the laments about Ricoh in the early posts fool you - once she gets the K3 Lauren is over-the-top happy, even if she did gaffer tape the Ricoh.

12-04-2013, 10:39 PM	#21
cyberastrofolkie New Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Northwestern Connecticut, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3	I'm "Old School" as well. I prefer old used MF lenses, especially Tamron Adaptall-2s on my K20D in M. When I use the few AF lenses I own, they are used manually as well. I have noticed the cheaper AF lenses will usually AF "Within the Ballpark," but not crisp. I am usually able to get a crisp focus manually and faster. Has anyone else experienced this?

12-05-2013, 06:22 AM	#22
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	Among the reasons I chose Pentax was the ease of manual use and control layout. So yes, if knowing how to use the camera's settings makes us Old School then so be it. Wear that with pride, then check whether their camera is in full auto mode. Last year I was taking some impromptu portraits of a co-worker at her request - down on the lakefront, very nice - and after looking through the viewfinder quickly changed modes and settings. 'You're the first person I've ever seen adjust settings on a camera.'

12-05-2013, 06:44 AM	#23
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	Originally posted by Heie D800E* (not 300 ) And retort: "So, Nikon! 24% stock dive, huh!" Taking this from the comments of that article: "I hope that this is just a wake up call for Nikon to step it up." ... I guess unhappy guys are in every brand And there are quite a lot of comments like that in there... heh...

12-05-2013, 01:18 PM	#24
FrankC Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 322	If not for the earthquake in Japan and the tsunami that followed (which caused massive delays in the D800E's introduction), I'd be shooting Nikon right now. Instead I got a 645D because of it's IQ compared to what was available at the time of purchase from Nikon and Canon. Quite frankly, I wouldn't then or now give Pentax with their APS-only lineup a second thought. I think pros don't use Pentax because Pentax has never really put out a full range of equipment that is better than Nikon or Canon. Not to say that they're stuff is 2nd rate, but N/C have so much of the market share that you'd be an idiot to shoot with Pentax while the guy to the right/left of you has a FF camera with faster focus, more FPS, and better glass. When your livelihood depends on getting the shot, then I'm sorry, but Pentax isn't the way to go.

12-05-2013, 03:50 PM	#26
FrankC Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 322	davids8560 - I completely get what you mean. Some cameras can feel as if they're an extension of one's self. I had a similar reaction when I picked up a Leica M6 for the first time. Oh, sure, there's the "oh my God! it's a Leica" reaction, but that goes away fairly quickly. At the time I was using an EOS 1 and the Leica was so basic, so low-tech that it reminded me of just how all of the bells and whistles of a then modern AF film camera had insulated me from the experience of making a photograph. With the M6 I felt so connected with the process. I felt that I was actually making the image as opposed to just pushing a button to then have some inanimate object do it for me. The best way that I can describe it is that I felt like a craftsman as opposed to a button pusher. It reminded me of when I was 5 years old and picked a Kodak Brownie and took a picture for the very fist time. Pure, unadulterated photography nirvana.

12-05-2013, 04:21 PM - 1 Like	#27
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,189	Originally posted by davids8560 I just reach out and pick up the K-5, and just sort of admire it. It does feel good to hold, doesn't it? If I haven't gone out on photo outing for several days, I'll pick up my K-5 ii and just take a few shots in the house! - Craig

12-06-2013, 06:35 AM	#28
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	Originally posted by c.a.m It does feel good to hold, doesn't it? If I haven't gone out on photo outing for several days, I'll pick up my K-5 ii and just take a few shots in the house! - Craig There's always the dogs, who can give such amusing looks when you shove a camera in their face...

12-07-2013, 09:20 AM	#29
OrchidJulie Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Magic City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,934	@david -- I know exactly what you mean, and I've expressed it in this forum before... at work I have to use the company's D80. Decent camera (tho' I wish I had some additional lenses for it), but it never "spoke" to me. I use it, do what I have to do with it, but it never feels right in my hands. My Pentax does. Yeah, old school, since Spotmatic days. And I can use the lenses from the Spottie on my K-r...

12-08-2013, 11:35 AM	#30
phreon Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 72	I have half a mind to always keep the RB67 or C330 in my backpack just for these kinds of encounters so I can pull 'em out and say, "Nah, I'm not old school, I just know how to use my brain to operate a camera".