Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-05-2013, 02:10 PM   #16
Pentaxian
Oldbayrunner's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 1,234
First let me start of with whatever I am writing in this is in no way meant to be critical and is only my opinion of what I know about photography and what I see in your photos along with what I read in your exif settings.

The Pentax photo appears as though it was using the default Bright color setting on your K 30. If you had shot it with the color manager in Natural it would be closer to the canon. Plus you used 1 stop ISO difference 1600 with the Pentax vs 800 with the Canon. Then you have a +.70 Bias exposure with your Pentax and a -.33 with your Canon. You can't compare the two accurately without using the same settings. Even given that there will be some color difference. Each manufacturer's sensor handles some colors differently then sensors of a different manufacturer. As mentioned one way to compensate is to use the color adjustments in the color settings to achieve what you want to see. We wont even go into what your monitor does....LOL

There are other factors then this being shake reduction difference. One being the difference in camera lenses. To accurately compare how two cameras fair with shake reduction and sharpness you would need to compare each camera with an Identical lens. An Aspherical lens also will be different then a non aspherical lens. Lenses of different focal lengths will perform differently at the same distance due to an average lens being shot at the end of it's focal length will not be as sharp as an average lens being shot in the middle it's focal length. I would venture to say if you used identical Tamron lens on both cameras you would see a much different result. Then number two being the differences in shake reduction types one being in camera the other being in Lens. Which is better has been a debate for years. Pentax's shake reduction according to the manual does not do well at slower shutter speeds where as in lens reduction doesn't fair well at higher speeds. Neither one will compensate for too much motion blur.

Now lets talk about your exposure settings. Your exposure settings were way off to begin with. The Pentax at ISO 1600 with f5.6 & 1/8 shutter gives you an EV (exposure value) of +3 which would be great if you were shooting fireworks at night with timed exposure. You did lighten it up in camera with a .70 bias. and I would assume with your processing program. Now let's take the settings for your Canon ISO 800 F5.6 & 1/8th Gives you a EV of +5 which is 2 EV's higher than then what you used with your Pentax. A +5 Ev is normally indoor shooting with average light, indoor stadiums, flames, candles etc. I am not understanding why you used a -.33 bias exposure on an already under exposed photo. A much faster shutter speed would have aided in achieving better sharpness in both cameras. Here again you would need to have the other settings correct for you lighting also. for an example if your lighting was of an EV 14= hazy sunlight. Then to keep your depth of field of f5.6 then you would use an ISO of 100 and a shutter speed of 1/250 or you could use ISO 200 and 1/500. Lets say it's bright Sunlight or an EV of 15 with that then it would take an f5.6, ISO 100 and 1/1000 or ISO 200 and 1/2000. In each of these you would have more than likely achieved a better sharpness yield. To keep your exposure correct at ISO 1600/ f5.6 it would take a shutter speed of 1/8000 for hazy sun and bright sun,1/15000 which your camera will not do.

Exposure hasn't changed since the beginning of cameras especially with cameras being able to adjust them. If you use manual settings it is wise to learn what EV values are and start with what is correct for the light you are dealing with, then adjust for affect otherwise you might find yourself unhappy with a lot of your photographs. I don't know how much you know about exposure but this I found as a helpful reminder and I copied the charts and keep them as a reference with me.

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm#Introduction


Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 12-05-2013 at 02:40 PM. Reason: added
12-05-2013, 02:29 PM   #17
Junior Member




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 40
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
First let me start of with whatever I am writing in this is in no way meant to be critical and is only my opinion of what I know about photography and what I see in your photos along with what I read in your exif settings.

The Pentax photo appears as though it was using the default Bright color setting on your K 30. If you had shot it with the color manager in Natural it would be closer to the canon. Plus you used 1 stop ISO difference 1600 with the Pentax vs 800 with the Canon. Then you have a +.70 Bias exposure with your Pentax and a -.33 with your Canon. You can't compare the two accurately without using the same settings. Even given that there will be some color difference. Each manufacturer's sensor handles some colors differently then sensors of a different manufacturer. As mentioned one way to compensate is to use the color adjustments in the color settings to achieve what you want to see. We wont even go into what your monitor does....LOL

There are other factors then this being shake reduction difference. One being the difference in camera lenses. To accurately compare how two cameras fair with shake reduction and sharpness you would need to compare each camera with an Identical lens. An Aspherical lens also will be different then a non aspherical lens. Lenses of different focal lengths will perform differently at the same distance due to an average lens being shot at the end of it's focal length will not be as sharp as an average lens being shot in the middle it's focal length. I would venture to say if you used identical Tamron lens on both cameras you would see a much different result. Then number two being the differences in shake reduction types one being in camera the other being in Lens. Which is better has been a debate for years. Pentax's shake reduction according to the manual does not do well at slower shutter speeds where as in lens reduction doesn't fair well at higher speeds. Neither one will compensate for too much motion blur.

Now lets talk about your exposure settings. Your exposure settings were way off to begin with. The Pentax at ISO 1600 with f5.6 & 1/8 shutter gives you an EV (exposure value) of +3 which would be great if you were shooting fireworks at night with timed exposure. You did lighten it up in camera with a .70 bias. and I would assume with your processing program. Now let's take the settings for your Canon ISO 800 F5.6 & 1/8th Gives you a EV of +5 which is 2 EV's higher than then what you used with your Pentax. A +5 Ev is normally indoor shooting, average light, Shooting fire etc. I am not understanding why you used a -.33 bias exposure on an already under exposed photo. A much faster shutter speed would have aided in achieving better sharpness in both cameras. Here again you would need to have the other settings correct for you lighting also. for an example if your lighting was of an EV 14= hazy sunlight. Then to keep you depth of field of f5.6 then you would use an ISO of 100 and a shutter speed of 1/250 or you could use ISO 200 and 1/500. Lets say it's bright Sunlight or an EV of 15 with that then it would take an f5.6, ISO 100 and 1/1000 or ISO 200 and 1/2000. In each of these you would have more than likely achieved a better sharpness yield

Exposure hasn't changed since the beginning of cameras especially with cameras being able to adjust them. If you use manual settings it is wise to learn what EV values are and start with what is correct for the light you are dealing with, then adjust for affect otherwise you might find yourself unhappy with a lot of your photographs. I don't know how much you know about exposure but this I found as a helpful reminder and I copied the charts and keep them as a reference with me.

Ultimate Exposure Computer
Thanks Oldbayrunner...it is obvious I have a lot to learn. I really appreciate everyone's feedback. I am hoping it will help me to learn. I have read some books and have a very basic understanding and I am trying to learn by shooting the same thing over and over again with different settings to see how each one effects the image. I try to pick it up and shoot and get familiar with it at least once a day I do have a newborn and a toddler so my time is limited but they are also the reason I want to be able to capture good photos. I did not do any post processing other than to reduce the size of the image to post online.
12-05-2013, 05:23 PM   #18
Pentaxian
Oldbayrunner's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 1,234
Suggestion...Instead of shooting things over and over...Take a little time to learn EV values and comparable exposure settings during your quiet times. It will save you time, shutter clicks and maybe some frustration. Take a look at the charts in the link I supplied... Like I mentioned, I cut, pasted and printed those charts a few years ago and keep them when I shoot today for reference. Starting your photography session with the right settings and learning to compensate for effect, along with added post processing, can lead to tons of reward.
12-07-2013, 03:31 PM   #19
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 698
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
The point is, regardless of the system, shake reduction is a function of technique as well, but 1/8 at between 135 and 150mm focal length is not within reason.
....

I beg to differ - with the K-3 I can and do quite ofte shoot 135mm at 1/8 sec and I don't consider myself a particularly steady hand. With the K-30 I also used to get good shots in those conditions but it was more like a one in four keeper rate.The K-3 seems to have improved a lot and I will typically get about 80-90% good shake-free shots.

In any case the softness in the sample photo is not due to shake but bad focus. Whether this is because of technique or miscalibrated camera/lens I cannot tell though.

12-07-2013, 04:21 PM   #20
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2011
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 451
I have found my 18-135 to be veeeery soft at 135,and one reviewer suggested its best to use that length for pseudo macros only, implying that fair centre sharpness and edge softness is good for apparent bokeh.

I have decided to use 100 as my maximum for longer zoom shots, and above that close focussing only.

Last edited by Bagga_Txips; 12-07-2013 at 04:29 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, canon, day, pentax, pentax help, photography, pictures, reduction
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shake Reduction on K-x Mangoman45 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 12 08-25-2013 09:03 AM
Shake Reduction question beginnerbee Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 3 06-26-2013 06:40 PM
Shake Reduction Vs. Image Quality 15anthony15 Pentax K-5 16 04-16-2013 06:43 AM
no shake reduction in video mode skipdc Pentax Q 2 02-24-2013 02:58 PM
shake reduction can't turn on ? davidsyd Pentax K-30 & K-50 3 12-24-2012 07:32 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:04 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top