Help Needed: Effective Chimping

DavidSKAF3 · 12-16-2013, 10:17 PM

So I recently found out what "chimping" is and it turns out I'm a chimper and have been one for quite some time.

Embarassment? I dunno!

But anyway, in this case it is what it is! And if I'm gonna be chimping, let's talk about effective chimping.

Because K-5 chimping for some reason isn't working out so accurately for me. It appears that many photos I take which don't look properly exposed on the LCD are often turning out to be looking just fine on the big screen.

And I am taking additional shots with various exposure adjustments that turn out to be looking not so great at all on the big screen. The additional shots are unnecessary. The first shot was okay after all! It's happened a number of times now.

Is my LCD possibly poorly adjusted or something? It should be on default setting. I've never gone into the menus and changed anything.

So that's one chimping thing that I'm reckoning with right now.

Or should I just resist the screaming urge to chimp? LOL

**jatrax** · 12-16-2013, 10:23 PM

I don't think you should rely on the LCD screen to judge exposure. There are adjustments for brightness of the screen in the menu and the amount of light or glare on the screen will also effect things.

I turn on the clipping masks, also called "blinkies" and adjust the exposure using EV comp so that I have just one or two blinkies showing in areas that are supposed to be pure white, like a bright white cloud. If there is nothing pure white in the image then you cannot do that of course. Works OK for me, YMMV.

**Miguel** · 12-16-2013, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by davids8560

Or should I just resist the screaming urge to chimp?

Chimping is a natural behavior found in homo sapiens.
No need to fight it.
Just keep your expectations in line with the capabilities of the tool. Realize that even if you shoot Raw, you are viewing the embedded jpg thumbnail, so what-you-see-is-not-what-you-get. The best use is for confirmation of framing. Then, as jatrax said, some clues about clipping; you can see too-dark area warnings too. The histogram can help, but I think its relationship to an artful shot is sometimes questionable. Then a semi-OK idea of sharpness, if you zoom it a few steps up.
That's about as ambitious as I get with the chimping thing. Consider focus peaking and LiveView for getting some higher value from the LCD.

M

sterretje · 12-16-2013, 10:45 PM

I'll use the histogram mostly. For my usage it seems reasonably effective, but not perfect. It depends on the scene what I consider acceptible or not.

DavidSKAF3 · 12-16-2013, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by Miguel

...Consider focus peaking and LiveView for getting some higher value from the LCD.

M

Do I have this feature?
Thx

**Miguel** · 12-16-2013, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by davids8560

Do I have this feature?
Thx

K-5 has LiveView; K-3 has both. Focus peaking rox--I only recently discovered it and now I'm addicted.

M

**jatrax** · 12-16-2013, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by davids8560

Do I have this feature?
Thx

Liveview = yes, focus peaking = no. In the k-5 that is.

Liveview can be useful to zoom in and check the focus on something, I use it a lot when on a tripod and I have the time. Focus peaking is related to Liveview but shows you on the screen what is in focus. But it's not available on the k-5. I've used it a bit on the k-01.

I agree with Miguel, it's a useful tool but not something I trust 100%. Watch the blinkies for clipping either too bright or too dark, zoom in on a shot once in a while to check sharpness and that's about it. I try to check every once in awhile just in case I hit a button wrong (shot a whole shoot once with EV comp on +3

. I try not to do that again.

DavidSKAF3 · 12-16-2013, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

(shot a whole shoot once with EV comp on +3

. I try not to do that again.

And that's another thing! EV changes seem very aggressive with this camera. I may not know an awful lot but EV adjustments are something I picked up during my compact experiences, and it helped a lot. But this K-5 seems to really jump when you tick it up or down a few clicks. Seems quite aggressive!

Thx

camerons · 12-16-2013, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by davids8560

And that's another thing! EV changes seem very aggressive with this camera. I may not know an awful lot but EV adjustments are something I picked up during my compact experiences, and it helped a lot. But this K-5 seems to really jump when you tick it up or down a few clicks. Seems quite aggressive!

Thx

I think you can set the EV divisions that it changes by per click somewhere in the menus.

**Schraubstock** · 12-17-2013, 12:26 AM - **1 Like**

Hi
Ah, the much maligned LCD is giving you grief. It's not WYSIWYG but WYSIWYNG. Why ? Because the poor thing can't cope with the ambient light. Ambient light changes hundreds of time during the day and a lot is influencing it such as time of day, reflections off objects (metamerism affect) and your eyes not being able to adjust quickly enough from bright to dark. (Or dark to bright as it were)

Bright daylight however is the main culprit. Everything just looks too dark on the screen and when you crank up the screen brightness you introduce another problem that will give you even worse results. I carry a "Compact Hoodman Loupe" in my pocket and use it from time to time when I feel I need to make a better informed judgement of a shot I have just taken. Also to look at the histogram will give you a better indication as far as exposure is concerned.

Greetings

Clavius · 12-17-2013, 01:38 AM

Hmmm... In my honest opinion: when chimping gets the job done quicker then doing it the old school way, then it becomes the better method. No shame there.

In situations where exposure becomes tricky, use exposure bracketing. It's chimping plus some spray and pray, but fully automated. And I still find nothing to be ashamed about there, especially when it's quicker.

EarlVonTapia · 12-17-2013, 02:51 AM

On my K30, I set my LCD brightness set 4 notches to the left (darker), and to my eyes it gives a better representation of the exposure of a captured scene than when it is at its default brightness setting. I shoot RAW + JPG, and with my Eye-Fi card I push just the JPG onto my phone to share it on Instagram/Facebook. They look just fine (minor tweaks in Snapseed).

On my Q, I have it at the darkest setting. It too has an Eye-Fi card, but the Q has a tendency to just blow out highlights, so I'm more careful with pictures coming from it.

I find the histogram helpful in letting me see whether a picture can be "rescued" in Lightroom.

So maybe try adjusting the brightness levels of the LCD and see if that will help your situation.

Nass · 12-17-2013, 05:02 AM

I'm a chimper and I'm proud.

Actually I think you have to be absolutely nuts not to. Digital has given us this great tool so use it. My only suggestion would be to turn the histogram on, it's a much better way of judging your shots than just chimping. See Solve Overly Dark Photo Problems In Macro By Using A Histogram

Clavius · 12-17-2013, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Nass

I'm a chimper and I'm proud.

Actually I think you have to be absolutely nuts not to. Digital has given us this great tool so use it. My only suggestion would be to turn the histogram on, it's a much better way of judging your shots than just chimping. See Solve Overly Dark Photo Problems In Macro By Using A Histogram

But... There's no histogram in the VF, only on the LCD screen.

**crewl1** · 12-17-2013, 05:16 AM

I primarily chimp for confirming focus, so I have my K-5 set to auto zoom to 8x so I can check it.
I've sort of figured out now I can trust the camera to handle exposure if I use center weighted metering.
if I think the scene will blow highlights I set for -ev compensation from experience.
I should use the histogram instead though.

12-16-2013, 10:17 PM	#1
DavidSKAF3 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Tompkins County, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 546	Help Needed: Effective Chimping So I recently found out what "chimping" is and it turns out I'm a chimper and have been one for quite some time. Embarassment? I dunno! But anyway, in this case it is what it is! And if I'm gonna be chimping, let's talk about effective chimping. Because K-5 chimping for some reason isn't working out so accurately for me. It appears that many photos I take which don't look properly exposed on the LCD are often turning out to be looking just fine on the big screen. And I am taking additional shots with various exposure adjustments that turn out to be looking not so great at all on the big screen. The additional shots are unnecessary. The first shot was okay after all! It's happened a number of times now. Is my LCD possibly poorly adjusted or something? It should be on default setting. I've never gone into the menus and changed anything. So that's one chimping thing that I'm reckoning with right now. Or should I just resist the screaming urge to chimp? LOL

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12-16-2013, 10:23 PM	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,992	I don't think you should rely on the LCD screen to judge exposure. There are adjustments for brightness of the screen in the menu and the amount of light or glare on the screen will also effect things. I turn on the clipping masks, also called "blinkies" and adjust the exposure using EV comp so that I have just one or two blinkies showing in areas that are supposed to be pure white, like a bright white cloud. If there is nothing pure white in the image then you cannot do that of course. Works OK for me, YMMV.

12-16-2013, 10:37 PM	#3
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Originally posted by davids8560 Or should I just resist the screaming urge to chimp? Chimping is a natural behavior found in homo sapiens. No need to fight it. Just keep your expectations in line with the capabilities of the tool. Realize that even if you shoot Raw, you are viewing the embedded jpg thumbnail, so what-you-see-is-not-what-you-get. The best use is for confirmation of framing. Then, as jatrax said, some clues about clipping; you can see too-dark area warnings too. The histogram can help, but I think its relationship to an artful shot is sometimes questionable. Then a semi-OK idea of sharpness, if you zoom it a few steps up. That's about as ambitious as I get with the chimping thing. Consider focus peaking and LiveView for getting some higher value from the LCD. M

12-16-2013, 10:45 PM	#4
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	I'll use the histogram mostly. For my usage it seems reasonably effective, but not perfect. It depends on the scene what I consider acceptible or not.

12-16-2013, 10:45 PM	#5
DavidSKAF3 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Tompkins County, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 546 Original Poster	Originally posted by Miguel ...Consider focus peaking and LiveView for getting some higher value from the LCD. M Do I have this feature? Thx

12-16-2013, 10:48 PM	#6
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	Originally posted by davids8560 Do I have this feature? Thx K-5 has LiveView; K-3 has both. Focus peaking rox--I only recently discovered it and now I'm addicted. M

12-16-2013, 10:54 PM	#7
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,992	Originally posted by davids8560 Do I have this feature? Thx Liveview = yes, focus peaking = no. In the k-5 that is. Liveview can be useful to zoom in and check the focus on something, I use it a lot when on a tripod and I have the time. Focus peaking is related to Liveview but shows you on the screen what is in focus. But it's not available on the k-5. I've used it a bit on the k-01. I agree with Miguel, it's a useful tool but not something I trust 100%. Watch the blinkies for clipping either too bright or too dark, zoom in on a shot once in a while to check sharpness and that's about it. I try to check every once in awhile just in case I hit a button wrong (shot a whole shoot once with EV comp on +3 . I try not to do that again.

12-16-2013, 10:57 PM	#8
DavidSKAF3 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Tompkins County, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 546 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax (shot a whole shoot once with EV comp on +3 . I try not to do that again. And that's another thing! EV changes seem very aggressive with this camera. I may not know an awful lot but EV adjustments are something I picked up during my compact experiences, and it helped a lot. But this K-5 seems to really jump when you tick it up or down a few clicks. Seems quite aggressive! Thx

12-16-2013, 11:20 PM	#9
camerons Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 243	Originally posted by davids8560 And that's another thing! EV changes seem very aggressive with this camera. I may not know an awful lot but EV adjustments are something I picked up during my compact experiences, and it helped a lot. But this K-5 seems to really jump when you tick it up or down a few clicks. Seems quite aggressive! Thx I think you can set the EV divisions that it changes by per click somewhere in the menus.

12-17-2013, 12:26 AM - 1 Like	#10
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Hi Ah, the much maligned LCD is giving you grief. It's not WYSIWYG but WYSIWYNG. Why ? Because the poor thing can't cope with the ambient light. Ambient light changes hundreds of time during the day and a lot is influencing it such as time of day, reflections off objects (metamerism affect) and your eyes not being able to adjust quickly enough from bright to dark. (Or dark to bright as it were) Bright daylight however is the main culprit. Everything just looks too dark on the screen and when you crank up the screen brightness you introduce another problem that will give you even worse results. I carry a "Compact Hoodman Loupe" in my pocket and use it from time to time when I feel I need to make a better informed judgement of a shot I have just taken. Also to look at the histogram will give you a better indication as far as exposure is concerned. Greetings

12-17-2013, 01:38 AM	#11
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Hmmm... In my honest opinion: when chimping gets the job done quicker then doing it the old school way, then it becomes the better method. No shame there. In situations where exposure becomes tricky, use exposure bracketing. It's chimping plus some spray and pray, but fully automated. And I still find nothing to be ashamed about there, especially when it's quicker.

12-17-2013, 02:51 AM	#12
EarlVonTapia Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,207	On my K30, I set my LCD brightness set 4 notches to the left (darker), and to my eyes it gives a better representation of the exposure of a captured scene than when it is at its default brightness setting. I shoot RAW + JPG, and with my Eye-Fi card I push just the JPG onto my phone to share it on Instagram/Facebook. They look just fine (minor tweaks in Snapseed). On my Q, I have it at the darkest setting. It too has an Eye-Fi card, but the Q has a tendency to just blow out highlights, so I'm more careful with pictures coming from it. I find the histogram helpful in letting me see whether a picture can be "rescued" in Lightroom. So maybe try adjusting the brightness levels of the LCD and see if that will help your situation.

12-17-2013, 05:02 AM	#13
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402	I'm a chimper and I'm proud. Actually I think you have to be absolutely nuts not to. Digital has given us this great tool so use it. My only suggestion would be to turn the histogram on, it's a much better way of judging your shots than just chimping. See Solve Overly Dark Photo Problems In Macro By Using A Histogram

12-17-2013, 05:16 AM	#14
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Nass I'm a chimper and I'm proud. Actually I think you have to be absolutely nuts not to. Digital has given us this great tool so use it. My only suggestion would be to turn the histogram on, it's a much better way of judging your shots than just chimping. See Solve Overly Dark Photo Problems In Macro By Using A Histogram But... There's no histogram in the VF, only on the LCD screen.

12-17-2013, 05:16 AM	#15
crewl1 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,807	I primarily chimp for confirming focus, so I have my K-5 set to auto zoom to 8x so I can check it. I've sort of figured out now I can trust the camera to handle exposure if I use center weighted metering. if I think the scene will blow highlights I set for -ev compensation from experience. I should use the histogram instead though.