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12-21-2013, 02:44 AM   #1
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Pentax FF vs Crop

Well since I'm in college soon, I'm thinking to buy a 3rd generation(1st: istd, 2nd: K-5) camera. Right now I'm using K-5 with 16-50 for 3 years. Well with crop body such as K-3, it is fine to me. However, since I need FF for working(wedding sub, landscape, and etc) I have trouble to pick either FF or Crop. I just can't buy both of them. What should I pick??

12-21-2013, 03:11 AM   #2
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Why FF= work for you?
12-21-2013, 03:25 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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I don't see how the K-5/DA* 16-50 are not adequate. You said you are about to go to college. While I can't assume you are very young, I will safely assume you won't have the time to professionally shoot. Sure you may get some paid gigs, but it won't be your livelihood during the middle of classes (either that or you aren't really in college).

I have shot a wedding, photographed a combat deployment, covered landscape, and tinkered around with off-camera lighting/macro and have become published a few times with my work using the APS-C K-7, K-5, and K-5 IIs. And I am in no way a professional - just some lucky opportunities that were presented to me.

There are shooters here that do in fact put a roof over their heads and food on their tables, for both them and their families, using Pentax cameras and lenses. And then those that use Pentax gear for nothing other than to satisfy their passion, still producing mind-blowingly beautiful works of photographic art.

Frankly, the way you phrased this post, asked the "tell me what I need to do?" question, and did so in the Beginner's Forum, it's clear you are not really very well-versed in photography and don't know what you are actually looking for and/or in need of:

You are being sold the FF necessity by successful marketing by Canon/Nikon/Sony - they are capitalizing on your photographic ignorance, as have done and continue to do to thousands upon thousands of other uneducated 'photographers' the world over.


I don't mean offense by that, really I don't, so please don't think I am being rude or condescending. The K-5 and the DA* 16-50 f/2.8 is a phenomenal combo, and one that I would say you haven't learned how to really use. Because neither are FF (and Pentax doesn't have FF), you would have to sell both. The sold price combined wouldn't be able to afford you any FF camera on the market (except perhaps a used Nikon D700 or Canon 5DII), but that doesn't detract from the quality that it is capable of. The Pentax K-5 was the best APS-C money could buy for almost three years straight. And the DA* 16-50 is as professional a standard zoom lens as they come, especially for the APS-C sensor (and the only proven weather sealed one - even many of the FF ones aren't).

Again, I don't mean to be rude, and I could be completely wrong, but I am pretty confident 1) you don't need a FF system and 2) you haven't learned how to really use the remarkable combo you already have.

-Heie

Last edited by Heie; 12-21-2013 at 03:40 AM. Reason: Typo :)
12-21-2013, 04:02 AM   #4
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I think for a lot of things, APS-C is "good enough." The big thing is that you need to look at more glass, particularly primes. My wife currently does a lot of portrait work and some weddings with a combo of a K5 II and a K3. Auto focus was the biggest problem with the original K5s and with the K5 II and the K3, it isn't an issue. Anyway, if you are working for someone else and they require you to have a full frame, then you will have no choice (at this point), but to leave Pentax...

12-21-2013, 06:13 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Why FF= work for you?
I mean for wedding and other events photography require FF camera. They do not accept any crop camera at all...
12-21-2013, 06:15 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
They do not accept any crop camera at all...
Who is "they" anyway?

M
12-21-2013, 06:33 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
I mean for wedding and other events photography require FF camera. They do not accept any crop camera at all...
Is it a law?
12-21-2013, 06:46 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
I mean for wedding and other events photography require FF camera. They do not accept any crop camera at all...
No but they accept improperly framed FF shots cropped down in post. What's the difference

The they you are referring to are people who have put up barriers to protect the status quo

12-21-2013, 06:58 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
I mean for wedding and other events photography require FF camera. They do not accept any crop camera at all...
they need to compensate their lack of talent with bigger gear ?
12-21-2013, 07:13 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
I mean for wedding and other events photography require FF camera. They do not accept any crop camera at all...
It does not make any sense, Buddy!
12-21-2013, 10:01 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
I mean for wedding and other events photography require FF camera. They do not accept any crop camera at all...
QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
What should I pick??
Honestly...what you should pick is another group to work for. Or maybe start your own business and under-cut them.
12-21-2013, 01:57 PM   #12
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For me, I would never buy an APS-C DSLR. An APS-C point-and-shoot camera? Sure.
The reason being is that with an APS-C camera you're using smaller focal lengths for any give angle of view. For example, an 85mm lens on a FF is 53mm on an APS-C camera. Both give the same angle of view. Take two pros and have them shoot a portrait with both setups. The two of them will be at the same shooting distance to obtain the same image. However, since the FF user is using an 85mm while the APS-C shooter is using only a 50mm, the image from the FF camera will have a background that is nicely blurred, while the APS-C user will not. Simply because depth of field is in part affected by the focal length (also distance to your subject and aperture used). The biggest complaint against the APS-C system among advanced shooters and pros is it's inability to control the depth of field. This is one reason why medium format was and is still used in fashion photography. With the need to use longer focal lengths, full frame camera provide a look that cannot be duplicated by APS-C cameras. The same thing can be said about medium format vs full frame cameras which is why I went with the 645D. Sure the Nikon D800E has similar resolution, but it can't duplicate the "look."

So, for me, if I knew I was going to shoot a lot of portraiture, weddings and fashion and wouldn't consider an APS-C camera. Sports, wildlife and the like, then an APS-C would be fine.

But then again, I'm sure one can find examples of pros producing incredible work in all kinds of situations where their camera's format isn't ideal for the situation.
12-21-2013, 02:05 PM   #13
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I agree with Heie. Right now you're learning the basics of the craft of photography. More than 90% of what makes an image great happens outside of the camera. So at this stage of the game it doesn't make much sense to change what you have. As you take photography classes you'll soon learn what you need vs what you want. You'll eventually find yourself in situations where your equipment is not allowing you to express your vision. And it's at that point that you'll know it's time to add another tool to your bag. And you won't have to post a question on a forum to know it either.
12-21-2013, 02:25 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrankC Quote
For me, I would never buy an APS-C DSLR. An APS-C point-and-shoot camera? Sure.
The reason being is that with an APS-C camera you're using smaller focal lengths for any give angle of view.
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty lame reason. Focal lengths are all relative. If this is your main reason, nobody should shoot anything except view cameras because it's all downhill from there. Shallow depth of field is not the holy grail and can work against you in many situations. The bottom line should be the image, not the format.
12-21-2013, 04:10 PM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrankC Quote
This is one reason why medium format was and is still used in fashion photography.
in fact, not at all ! Considering most fashion shoot is done with lighting setup, the lens is often quite stop down. Historically, it's for the bigger amount of details and the nicer fall-off that MF was used in fashion photography. But that's just a detail.

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty lame reason. Focal lengths are all relative. If this is your main reason, nobody should shoot anything except view cameras because it's all downhill from there. Shallow depth of field is not the holy grail and can work against you in many situations. The bottom line should be the image, not the format.
i couldn't agree more.
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