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03-07-2014, 04:26 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote

People used to expect to have to know what they were doing to get good images. These days people seem to think all they have to do is buy a good camera.
+1 Hear, hear. I agree 100%. Just yesterday a coworker was muttering about a friend of hers who had recently bought a "really, REALLY expensive camera" and had no clue how to use it, despite a community college photo class. I understand that she told the friend to "bring it over to the office...Julie can show you how to use it..."

I have NO idea what that "really, REALLY expensive camera" might be, but if I find out I'll report back.

03-07-2014, 10:15 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
a view camera, one shot, no motor wind, you had to open the back of the camera to put in the next piece of film, and that guy got a shot most people on this forum couldn't get with 8 frames a second on a digital camera with a fast zoom lens. And the picture is still on my wall. And the image and Globe and Mail story are still in my scrapbook. People used to expect to have to know what they were doing to get good images. These days people seem to think all they have to do is buy a good camera.
That is so true, Norm. May 28, 1980 my scrapbook is full of the annual elementary school sports meet in Abbotsford, BC. I was the accountant for The Abbotsford, Suma and Matsqui News. My daughter and son were in school sports, and they handed me film and taught me what they wanted in the way of pictures over the first year I was with them. I was going to the meet anyway, so they gave me a several rolls of Tri-X film and told me to "have fun."

The sports section (award as 3rd best weekly sports section in Canada that year) that week was mine. All mine. Broadsheet, Sports section front page, two veritcals. Almost every other sport in the meet. Broad jump, running whatever.

The point? I was using an original Pentax. The one before the 'S' model even. 1/25 - 1/50 shutter series - all the way to 1/500. Second shutter speed dial down to 1 sec and T on the front. No place to put a battery. Preset Takumar 135/3.5. My thumb was the motor wind. It's not the camera. It's the PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE that gets the shot. The sports editor patiently taught me to get the shot that sold papers. The circulation that week was enormous as all the grandmas and uncles and aunts got a copy of the paper because George was on the front page, or page 3.

My K10D is rarely on continuous drive. It isn't necessary. Learn the reaction time of the camera. Push the button that fraction of a second before the action hits where you are focused. Just like the guy with the 4x5 that took Norm's action shot. My allotment of film for a soccer/football game was one roll of 36 per half. It was plenty. It still is.
03-07-2014, 11:25 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
My K10D is rarely on continuous drive. It isn't necessary. Learn the reaction time of the camera. Push the button that fraction of a second before the action hits where you are focused. Just like the guy with the 4x5 that took Norm's action shot. My allotment of film for a soccer/football game was one roll of 36 per half. It was plenty. It still is.
Ha ha, and you often just wasted the last 4 or 5 shots on the roll because you didn't want to start the next half with 4 shots left, and have to change film while play was going on.

QuoteOriginally posted by OrchidJulie Quote
+1 Hear, hear. I agree 100%. Just yesterday a coworker was muttering about a friend of hers who had recently bought a "really, REALLY expensive camera" and had no clue how to use it, despite a community college photo class. I understand that she told the friend to "bring it over to the office...Julie can show you how to use it..."

I have NO idea what that "really, REALLY expensive camera" might be, but if I find out I'll report back.
That can be so frustrating. We were describing bracketing to a friend with a Nikon D3200, and she thought she'd like to try it. SO i said "where's the manual/" Well the manual is on the camera. After 10 minutes of flipping through tiny "operators manual" one 2 inch screen at a time, we finally figured out, it doesn't support that feature. You get used to Pentax where everything is supported low to high, and you really don't understand how other manufacturers cripple even the most basic functions on their low end cameras.

Last edited by normhead; 03-07-2014 at 11:33 AM.
03-07-2014, 12:44 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ha ha, and you often just wasted the last 4 or 5 shots on the roll because you didn't want to start the next half with 4 shots left, and have to change film while play was going on.
Exactly. One roll was for the first half, the other was the second half. Our editor often looked at the contact sheets in reverse order - looking for the winning goal shot.

I wonder how it would go if I with my K10D+55-300 and you with your K-3 conned some guy with a 1Ds to compete and see who ended up with how many "keepers" at the end of the day, and how many shots you had to go through to find the keeper. I suspect the keeper ration would be very similar, but the number of shots very dissimilar.

03-07-2014, 08:58 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by OrchidJulie Quote
+1 Hear, hear. I agree 100%. Just yesterday a coworker was muttering about a friend of hers who had recently bought a "really, REALLY expensive camera" and had no clue how to use it, despite a community college photo class. I understand that she told the friend to "bring it over to the office...Julie can show you how to use it...".
"That camera you have takes wonderful pictures!"
"Thanks! I taught it everything it knows!"
03-07-2014, 09:14 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by OrchidJulie Quote
+1 Hear, hear. I agree 100%. Just yesterday a coworker was muttering about a friend of hers who had recently bought a "really, REALLY expensive camera" and had no clue how to use it, despite a community college photo class. I understand that she told the friend to "bring it over to the office...Julie can show you how to use it..."

I have NO idea what that "really, REALLY expensive camera" might be, but if I find out I'll report back.
I'm interested in knowing now too.. My guess is a 5d II or III. They seem to be popular with people (mostly women it seems) wanting 'FirstName LastName Photography' side businesses where they shoot photos of sleeping newborns or toddlers.
03-07-2014, 10:38 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I'm interested in knowing now too.. My guess is a 5d II or III. They seem to be popular with people (mostly women it seems) wanting 'FirstName LastName Photography' side businesses where they shoot photos of sleeping newborns or toddlers...
.. with 1.2/85mm wide opened, and with extra +2eV more light than required. Talk about stereotypes ...
03-07-2014, 11:32 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
.. with 1.2/85mm wide opened, and with extra +2eV more light than required. Talk about stereotypes ...
That would be the ever popular high key, dreamy look


Steve

03-08-2014, 04:15 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
"That camera you have takes wonderful pictures!"
"Thanks! I taught it everything it knows!"
ROFL! I am stealing that line, will enjoy using it on some unsuspecting victim... thank you!

---------- Post added 03-08-14 at 06:30 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I'm interested in knowing now too.. My guess is a 5d II or III. They seem to be popular with people (mostly women it seems) wanting 'FirstName LastName Photography' side businesses where they shoot photos of sleeping newborns or toddlers.
Actually, I was guessing some kit-flavor Nikon (D3200 or maybe 5200) because the boxes of them are stacked to the rafters at Costco. Our definition of "really, REALLY expensive" and hers may not be in the same ballpark, after all. I don't expect to meet this gal and her camera any time soon (if at all), but I'll take notes if she and it ever wander in to my office. I suspect both of these ladies are coming from the "I'll shoot it with my phone" perspective (certainly my coworker is).

Case in point... I do most (certainly not all) of the photos for the business. Over the years I have developed a bit of a Rube Goldberg "studio" setup in a corner of the office. I use the company D80 (yes, I wash my hands after handling it ), my tripod, and have learned the most of the quirks of the available lighting. Just this week, the coworker asked to borrow the background (a piece of black fabric) so she could shoot something with her phone. She taped it to the wall in a spot where the light was no good, set up the product and did a few fast phone snaps (hey, that's all Julie does, right? How hard can this be?). Background stayed taped to the wall all afternoon, finally at closing time I asked her if she was done with it... muttering and scowling, she gave it back to me. "Didn't turn out the way I thought it would"...

(yes, I kept a straight face, but it was difficult...)
03-08-2014, 11:03 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I'm interested in knowing now too.. My guess is a 5d II or III. They seem to be popular with people (mostly women it seems) wanting 'FirstName LastName Photography' side businesses where they shoot photos of sleeping newborns or toddlers.
Or weddings. No matter what forum I am on, it's inevitable, some newbie photographer who can barely use his/her camera off full auto decides they are going to start professionally shooting weddings. They don't even know what equipment they need to shoot a wedding so they come on the forum asking everybody for advice. My reaction to this is always the same. If you don't know what equipment you need for the job you're not ready for the job! I've been shooting pro now for a year, and amateur for a long while before that and stated dislike for doing them aside I would never touch a wedding until I'd been shooting pro for several years at least. Even then I'd want to be second photographer for a while working with a seasoned pro who does weddings all the time.

If you don't have a fair amount of experience you're just being a masochist trying to go there and unless they're broke and desperate and you're doing it for free your couple won't likely be satisfied or thank you for your efforts. Likely they'll threaten to sue you instead when you give them amateur level photos instead of the pro level shots they wanted...

I love my DSLR, but there are some days when I'm very sorry they have gotten to be the "family camera" for so many people. Having a DSLR with AF lenses it can give some people a false sense of their own talent sometimes. They think just because they can take a decent shot of their kids once in a while they're ready to go pro. They think it's that easy that the camera will do all the work for them. Well, guess what? It won't. Not on a pro level and if you can't take that camera off full auto and/or skip the program modes because you don't know how to pick a shutter speed, iso, aperture etc, if you don't know how to correctly use lights, flashes, etc then you are not ready to go pro.

I've had a number of people ask me to do jobs basically for free because they think anyone can do it and they won't pay a for a proper photographer anymore unless said photographer is dirt cheap. When I say "No, thanks." they look at me like I'm just being difficult and then tell me "Well, if you won't take the job for that price I can get a friend/family member to just do it for free then. So and so has a DSLR." To which I usually reply. "Fine, maybe you'll get lucky and they'll get some decent shots but if not if "so and so" screws it up? Don't come back to me with the CD pf photos begging me to make them look good because likely I can't and frankly I won't."

I've got a statement to the effect that I don't ever handle weddings in the ad I sometimes run but you would not believe how many people I get who ignore that and email me about doing one and when they do they're always on a "tight budget" when it comes to any photos, but oh, the wedding will be held at such and such a pricey venue, the catered meal will be something relatively expensive, their will be tons of florals, and oh, there will be a well known local DJ! Sometimes it's even a wedding planner who calls me, but they just can't afford much for wedding photos but they're not quite sure that "Uncle Bob" can do it and enjoy the wedding so they'd like to hire a pro, but not if the pro is going to actually charge them as a pro. So they hire someone like the person above, someone who's never touched a wedding, who walks in with a Canon Rebel or something like, barely knows how to use that and then they cry agonies when the resulting pics suck. Well, DUH.

Having a DSLR does not automatically equate to having the skills to properly use it. I have met, literally, people who have never so much as read the manual for their DSLR who seriously think that they can run a photography based side business. IMHO, that is just utterly arrogant, ignorant, and not a little bit insane. :P
03-08-2014, 11:33 AM   #71
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How true, Julie. I have taken weddings in the past, but am just too tired to even think of taking one nowadays.

Yes, I used umbrellas and fill flash outdoors, I carefully exposed and composed, and have not done a single wedding since I got a DSLR. One of the biggest problems that started to show up when I gave up, was the fat uncle with the cheap camera who (despite all the instructions from the family paying for the wedding) stepped into the aisle blocking the exit shot. My blood pressure pills cannot handle that stress anymore.
03-08-2014, 02:49 PM   #72
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In the '70s there were a lot of pros using Nilon, however by the late 60's, Pentax realized that pro shooters were many times limited by their film size. They knew how slow it was to use a 4x5 and yet they wanted to keep that aspect ratio to fit common paper sizes. The solution was to make a 70mm camera (6x7) with 4.5x the film area as a 35mm system. They wanted the speed of use of a 35mm camera but with much more film area. Even though the 6x7 was not a huge seller at first, it did quite well once the film producers broadened their roll film lineup. Even though Pentax had their LX geared toward the pro, it was their 6x7 and later their 645 that they were making for pro use. By the late 70's, many pros were looking at medium format to distance themselves from their competition that were using 35mm. Pentax did very well in capturing this market.
03-08-2014, 09:00 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Having a DSLR does not automatically equate to having the skills to properly use it. I have met, literally, people who have never so much as read the manual for their DSLR who seriously think that they can run a photography based side business. IMHO, that is just utterly arrogant, ignorant, and not a little bit insane. :P
Basically, yes, this is what I meant by my post. haha

I've been doing this for 4 years now strictly as a hobbyist and, in that time, I've learned a great deal. Yet I wouldn't dare take money for a shoot right now.. until I could pretty much capture any shot in my head at will properly.. in the camera..

Yet I see gobs and gobs of people with the big camera who think they now have a business when they don't even understand proper exposure... much less using lighting, posing, composition... even using a histogram.

The 5d II or II|, Photoshop/Lightroom and some presets.. instant commercial photography business! And many customers don't realize just how terrible the product they bought really is compared to someone who knows what they are doing... at least from what I've seen locally. There seems to be some kind of blinders for consumers on when someone pulls out a large camera and takes their money. It is astounding.

I'd rather under estimate my abilities than get in over my head.
03-09-2014, 10:56 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I've been doing this for 4 years now strictly as a hobbyist and, in that time, I've learned a great deal. Yet I wouldn't dare take money for a shoot right now.. until I could pretty much capture any shot in my head at will properly.. in the camera..
The mere fact that you know this means you'd probably be a better bet to take money for a shoot than a number of people who already do.
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