vivitar teleconverter - rounded Ricoh pin

mde1970 · 03-24-2014, 12:13 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm hoping someone will be able to answer a quick question. I've read about various forum members using a de-glassed teleconverter as a auto macro tube (when I say auto I refer to apetrture contol only). I've purchased a verh cheap Vivitar Telex2 and have removed the glass internals. I'm well aware of the Ricoh pin problem and I'm pretty sure this device has one. However I think I read that if its a rounded pin then it does not need to be removed? Can anyone verify if this is the case and also if I'm correct in saying this is the rounded pin??

So the question is, do I need to conduct more surgery on this Teleconverter before I attach to my K5??

elliott · 03-24-2014, 12:18 PM

It looks like the safe version to me, but since you're modifying it anyway it wouldn't hurt to remove it for peace of mind.

vonBaloney · 03-24-2014, 12:21 PM

Press it with your finger -- it should be spring-loaded and move, right? Shouldn't give you any trouble.

stevebrot · 03-24-2014, 12:24 PM

Yes, it is a rounded pin and yes, it is probably harmless, though I would caution that if you have a problem it is not my fault.

Steve

(...have one lens with a rounded pin and use it with no problems, but it is not the OP's lens...)

mde1970 · 03-24-2014, 01:13 PM

Ok on the recommendations from everyone I have completed the removal of the pin (pleased to say it was fairly simple). Everything seems to be good, lens attaches and removes and Aperture control works J

A few odd things but perhaps this is normal. ‘Im using a Sigma 17-70mm 2.8. With the Teleconverter attached my camera now allows me to go to F1.2. I can not focus at all until I get approx 20-30cm from object (but I can now get ridiculously close and still focus). I'm assuming all of this is normal and expected when using a de-glassed Teleconverter??

vonBaloney · 03-24-2014, 01:22 PM

The contacts aren't all passing through from the lens correctly or isn't reading them at all (f/1.2 might be the default) so it can tell there is an 'A' lens but it has the aperture range wrong.

See here:

http://www.robertstech.com/matrix.htm

**baro-nite** · 03-24-2014, 02:18 PM

I get the same results with a Sigma lens (70/2.8 macro) on an A-type TC. I think it's the lack of the data contact that is the issue.

(BTW, I've converted several of these KR-type TCs to use as extension tubes. I don't think it's necessary to remove the Ricoh pin but I did anyway.)

stevebrot · 03-24-2014, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

The contacts aren't all passing through from the lens correctly or isn't reading them at all

What he said.

OTOH, the Sigma is not a constant max aperture lens and it may be that the data pin is used for all communication. A little test walk with a continuity tester (ohmmeter) will tell what the pin-outs are for the lens and whether they are being transmitted through the TC.

Steve

vonBaloney · 03-24-2014, 04:31 PM

Actually this is probably the same problem other extension tubes have with Sigma lenses -- it is the black non-conductive surface. Did some research into that a while back.

**baro-nite** · 03-24-2014, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

it is the black non-conductive surface

Same issue with non-anodized mounts -- I think Sigma lenses require the data contact to work correctly.

vonBaloney · 03-24-2014, 04:55 PM

Put a Pentax lens on it and I bet it reads correctly?

mde1970 · 03-24-2014, 06:40 PM

I'll take your word for it but the only Pentax lens I have is FA43 and Im not sure if I want to attach my prized FA lens on this Teleconverter :-)

I can see the Sigma contacts dont match the Teleconverter so it make sense now and I can live with the odd F stop numbering. The Sigma 17:70 is the closest I have to a macro lens so I was always planning to use this lens.

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Put a Pentax lens on it and I bet it reads correctly?

Cheers for all the advice everyone. Much apprechiated.

vonBaloney · 03-24-2014, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by mde1970

I'll take your word for it but the only Pentax lens I have is FA43 and Im not sure if I want to attach my prized FA lens on this Teleconverter :-)

I can see the Sigma contacts dont match the Teleconverter so it make sense now and I can live with the odd F stop numbering. The Sigma 17:70 is the closest I have to a macro lens so I was always planning to use this lens.

Cheers for all the advice everyone. Much apprechiated.

The TC won't hurt your FA in any way, why would it?

And the contacts aren't supposed to "match", they are simply a full set of them just like on the camera body -- that's the point of it, to essentially just move the mount on the body outward so all the contacts on the TC are one-to-one matched with the body mount and so mounting a lens on the TC should behave just as the same as mounting it directly to the body. Then the lens uses the contacts that it happens to have as normal. But some third-party lenses don't seem to work without a bare metal mount (the part with no contacts) also conducting with the lens. (i.e. it wants the black part on side of the TC that mounts to the lens to be bare metal) And so if you were to sand down the black to bare metal, or simply put a piece of conductive foil tape on the mount (which adds more friction, making it tougher to mount a lens) then it would work as it should on your Sigma.

**baro-nite** · 03-25-2014, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

then it would work as it should on your Sigma

Again, in my experience, it won't. I've tried the Sigma 70/2.8 on TCs with shiny metal mounts; same result.

mde1970, you might find it worthwhile to do some testing at various aperture settings to find out what f-stop you're actually getting. In my experience it is not a consistent translation. As I recall, f/1.2 on the camera did not result in the lens staying wide open, and a change of a full stop on the camera did not necessarily result in the same change at the lens -- sometimes yes, but other times no change, or a smaller or greater change.

vonBaloney · 03-25-2014, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by baro-nite

Again, in my experience, it won't. I've tried the Sigma 70/2.8 on TCs with shiny metal mounts; same result.

I am basing this on my own experience getting the very same Sigma 70 (and another Sigma) to work properly. There is a thread somewhere about the whole affair. I also got it to work by blocking areas in-between contacts. It might need a conducting bridge all the way back to the body (which was solved by putting tape on the outside of the TC running from mount to mount. It CAN be gotten to work, one way or another...

03-24-2014, 12:13 PM	#1
mde1970 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Reading Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 313	vivitar teleconverter - rounded Ricoh pin Hi Guys, I'm hoping someone will be able to answer a quick question. I've read about various forum members using a de-glassed teleconverter as a auto macro tube (when I say auto I refer to apetrture contol only). I've purchased a verh cheap Vivitar Telex2 and have removed the glass internals. I'm well aware of the Ricoh pin problem and I'm pretty sure this device has one. However I think I read that if its a rounded pin then it does not need to be removed? Can anyone verify if this is the case and also if I'm correct in saying this is the rounded pin?? So the question is, do I need to conduct more surgery on this Teleconverter before I attach to my K5??

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03-24-2014, 12:18 PM	#2
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	It looks like the safe version to me, but since you're modifying it anyway it wouldn't hurt to remove it for peace of mind.

03-24-2014, 12:21 PM	#3
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Press it with your finger -- it should be spring-loaded and move, right? Shouldn't give you any trouble.

03-24-2014, 12:24 PM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Yes, it is a rounded pin and yes, it is probably harmless, though I would caution that if you have a problem it is not my fault. Steve (...have one lens with a rounded pin and use it with no problems, but it is not the OP's lens...)

03-24-2014, 01:13 PM	#5
mde1970 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Reading Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 313 Original Poster	Ok on the recommendations from everyone I have completed the removal of the pin (pleased to say it was fairly simple). Everything seems to be good, lens attaches and removes and Aperture control works J A few odd things but perhaps this is normal. ‘Im using a Sigma 17-70mm 2.8. With the Teleconverter attached my camera now allows me to go to F1.2. I can not focus at all until I get approx 20-30cm from object (but I can now get ridiculously close and still focus). I'm assuming all of this is normal and expected when using a de-glassed Teleconverter??

03-24-2014, 01:22 PM	#6
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	The contacts aren't all passing through from the lens correctly or isn't reading them at all (f/1.2 might be the default) so it can tell there is an 'A' lens but it has the aperture range wrong. See here: http://www.robertstech.com/matrix.htm

03-24-2014, 02:18 PM	#7
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	I get the same results with a Sigma lens (70/2.8 macro) on an A-type TC. I think it's the lack of the data contact that is the issue. (BTW, I've converted several of these KR-type TCs to use as extension tubes. I don't think it's necessary to remove the Ricoh pin but I did anyway.)

03-24-2014, 04:25 PM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by vonBaloney The contacts aren't all passing through from the lens correctly or isn't reading them at all What he said. OTOH, the Sigma is not a constant max aperture lens and it may be that the data pin is used for all communication. A little test walk with a continuity tester (ohmmeter) will tell what the pin-outs are for the lens and whether they are being transmitted through the TC. Steve

03-24-2014, 04:31 PM	#9
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Actually this is probably the same problem other extension tubes have with Sigma lenses -- it is the black non-conductive surface. Did some research into that a while back.

03-24-2014, 04:54 PM	#10
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	Originally posted by vonBaloney it is the black non-conductive surface Same issue with non-anodized mounts -- I think Sigma lenses require the data contact to work correctly.

03-24-2014, 04:55 PM	#11
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Put a Pentax lens on it and I bet it reads correctly?

03-24-2014, 06:40 PM	#12
mde1970 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Reading Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 313 Original Poster	I'll take your word for it but the only Pentax lens I have is FA43 and Im not sure if I want to attach my prized FA lens on this Teleconverter :-) I can see the Sigma contacts dont match the Teleconverter so it make sense now and I can live with the odd F stop numbering. The Sigma 17:70 is the closest I have to a macro lens so I was always planning to use this lens. Originally posted by vonBaloney Put a Pentax lens on it and I bet it reads correctly? Cheers for all the advice everyone. Much apprechiated.

03-24-2014, 07:12 PM	#13
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by mde1970 I'll take your word for it but the only Pentax lens I have is FA43 and Im not sure if I want to attach my prized FA lens on this Teleconverter :-) I can see the Sigma contacts dont match the Teleconverter so it make sense now and I can live with the odd F stop numbering. The Sigma 17:70 is the closest I have to a macro lens so I was always planning to use this lens. Cheers for all the advice everyone. Much apprechiated. The TC won't hurt your FA in any way, why would it? And the contacts aren't supposed to "match", they are simply a full set of them just like on the camera body -- that's the point of it, to essentially just move the mount on the body outward so all the contacts on the TC are one-to-one matched with the body mount and so mounting a lens on the TC should behave just as the same as mounting it directly to the body. Then the lens uses the contacts that it happens to have as normal. But some third-party lenses don't seem to work without a bare metal mount (the part with no contacts) also conducting with the lens. (i.e. it wants the black part on side of the TC that mounts to the lens to be bare metal) And so if you were to sand down the black to bare metal, or simply put a piece of conductive foil tape on the mount (which adds more friction, making it tougher to mount a lens) then it would work as it should on your Sigma.

03-25-2014, 05:18 AM	#14
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,294	Originally posted by vonBaloney then it would work as it should on your Sigma Again, in my experience, it won't. I've tried the Sigma 70/2.8 on TCs with shiny metal mounts; same result. mde1970, you might find it worthwhile to do some testing at various aperture settings to find out what f-stop you're actually getting. In my experience it is not a consistent translation. As I recall, f/1.2 on the camera did not result in the lens staying wide open, and a change of a full stop on the camera did not necessarily result in the same change at the lens -- sometimes yes, but other times no change, or a smaller or greater change.

03-25-2014, 05:27 AM	#15
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by baro-nite Again, in my experience, it won't. I've tried the Sigma 70/2.8 on TCs with shiny metal mounts; same result. I am basing this on my own experience getting the very same Sigma 70 (and another Sigma) to work properly. There is a thread somewhere about the whole affair. I also got it to work by blocking areas in-between contacts. It might need a conducting bridge all the way back to the body (which was solved by putting tape on the outside of the TC running from mount to mount. It CAN be gotten to work, one way or another...