K 500 and manual lenses - M & A

JSnow · 05-22-2014, 06:38 AM

K 500 and manual lenses
I've read quite few posts and looked up info both on this site and others - followed instructions etc, but am a bit confused - mainly as I have not found the TV shift option that is referred to, when setting up camera for manual lenses - either under E dial programming ( it's not on page 2) or under button customisation. ( I've read the K50 info in the Ricoh pentax site thinking the options would be the same) - Am I being incredibly thick?

Yes I can take shots with my M lens if I press the green button when totally manual, terrible shots if I leave it on AV. But presume that I must be missing something out somewhere.

Any advice would be welcome - ( for manual on K -500)

(I presume that with an A lens the above is not necessary?)

Thanks

**boriscleto** · 05-22-2014, 07:03 AM

A few things. First, is AutoISO turned off when in M mode? AutoISO has to be turned off for Green Button metering to work in M mode.

Second, with an A lens stop down metering is not necessary. The A lens is functionally the same as an autofocus lens with the exception of autofocus and you have to manually enter the focal length for SR.

**marcusBMG** · 05-22-2014, 07:07 AM

Always helpful to say specifically what lenses you are using - M42/t-mount/P-KM/P-KM black/P-KA...?

Adam · 05-22-2014, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by JSnow

K 500 and manual lenses
I've read quite few posts and looked up info both on this site and others - followed instructions etc, but am a bit confused - mainly as I have not found the TV shift option that is referred to, when setting up camera for manual lenses - either under E dial programming ( it's not on page 2) or under button customisation. ( I've read the K50 info in the Ricoh pentax site thinking the options would be the same) - Am I being incredibly thick?

Yes I can take shots with my M lens if I press the green button when totally manual, terrible shots if I leave it on AV. But presume that I must be missing something out somewhere.

Any advice would be welcome - ( for manual on K -500)

(I presume that with an A lens the above is not necessary?)

Thanks

Read this article and you should be good to go

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/54-pentax-lens-articles/110657-how-use-me...-x-k-7-a.html?

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)

PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

JSnow · 05-22-2014, 09:29 AM

Thanks for replies so far.

Yes - ISO is manual, dial is set to M, focus is set to M, and I use the green button before taking the picture - but the readings don't seem that great. As I said I was confused about the info for the K50 - ( and others) which refers to TV shift - which I don't seem to have as an option.on the K -500 , therefore I presumed I was missing out a set or setting.

At the moment I'm using an M 50mm f1.7, but will soon be getting an A lens, which I know should meter aperture and shutter automatically, if I've understood correctly.

Perhaps I am already doing the right thing - but just taking duff photographs.

**marcusBMG** · 05-22-2014, 09:53 AM

See my web pages:

Using manual focus lenses on Pentax (and Samsung)DSLR's

which discuss to some extent the pernickertiness and metering issues of pentax + vintage lenses.

**Just1MoreDave** · 05-22-2014, 04:21 PM

With M, K or M42 lenses, the camera switches to center-weighted metering, no user intervention required. If you really got along with Matrix metering, center-weighted doesn't produce the same results. The seamless metering swap isn't that noticeable, but you press the green button and get something that's two stops wrong. Matrix is off sometimes but rarely that much off. In light that doesn't change a lot, once you arrive at a setting that produces a balanced histogram, it's often easier to skip the green button for each shot. Just open up a bit if you're pointed at a dark corner, stop down for brighter stuff. When light is changing faster, learn how CW metering thinks, and see the scene like it sees. Then you have a better chance of knowing where it will be off.

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-22-2014, 10:02 PM

It is also important to note, and I have not personally seen results for other than flagship products (*istD, K10D, K7D and K5D) , that metering with manual lenses (non A lenses ) is very inconsistent as a function of aperture.

See the graph below

Also note that some bodies meter differently for M42 lenses in M vs Av mode,

So you should check your histogram regularly. Also note, A lenses can work in all modes, and in M work differently than non A lenses.

Specifically,
For M lenses the lens is stopped down and metering is done in stopped down mode to set the exposure time. You will notice that metering is only accurate between F4 and F5.6 because this is the native aperture range of the kit lens. For all other apertures it is off, and you need to think a little about this error.
for A lenses in M mode, the camera meters wide open, and compensates for the metering error for wide open aperture and sets shuttle speed appropriately. The lens is not stopped down to meter.

What I recommend is that you meter off a neutral subject, I use tree trunks, paved (moderate grey not black) roads, gravel roads etc, to get an exposure reading for the subject I am shooting, then leave exposure alone until conditions change.

Manual lenses are fun, but more time consuming, so slow down, learn how your lens behaves and then enjoy the results

JSnow · 05-24-2014, 07:53 AM

Thanks for the assistance. Had already looked up two of the pages suggested. It was the reference to selecting - TV shift - for green button on various info pages that threw me - can't find this on K-500. But whatever....it seems to be a bit hit and miss - the metering is not so great with the green button, but had fun taking 3 shots of everything today - what I thought it might be, green button shots, then adjustment shots. - the only trouble is that I wasn't writing any of it down!! (walking up a mountain trail with a crutch and a broken leg and a camera and lens bag was enough - let alone trying to make note of things!) But it's fun, it's years since I've done this all manually, it's made me far more critical - all those fully auto shots now just don't seem to look right... or at least they come too easy.It's a huge learning curve. Am looking forward to trying out the A lens when it arrives.

bczenkusz · 05-09-2022, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by JSnow

K 500 and manual lenses
I've read quite few posts and looked up info both on this site and others - followed instructions etc, but am a bit confused - mainly as I have not found the TV shift option that is referred to, when setting up camera for manual lenses - either under E dial programming ( it's not on page 2) or under button customisation. ( I've read the K50 info in the Ricoh pentax site thinking the options would be the same) - Am I being incredibly thick?

On my K 500 , under E-dial programming, screen 2, choose the M option, on the next screen the dials are initially highlighted, move down to the green button and select it and you get multiple options including Tv Shift.

I've been using an old manual zoom lens (no A), and I've found that pressing the green button does work under Live View mode, and this changes the shutter speed nicely, and works ok. However it does not work under viewfinder mode, or rather it seems to work once, but not a second time. Sticking to Live View works well.

pschlute · 05-09-2022, 12:04 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by bczenkusz

On my K 500 , under E-dial programming, screen 2, choose the M option, on the next screen the dials are initially highlighted, move down to the green button and select it and you get multiple options including Tv Shift.

I've been using an old manual zoom lens (no A), and I've found that pressing the green button does work under Live View mode, and this changes the shutter speed nicely, and works ok. However it does not work under viewfinder mode, or rather it seems to work once, but not a second time. Sticking to Live View works well.

Sir, you are replying to an eight year old post.

**photogem** · 05-10-2022, 12:00 AM

I think the answer is important because nobody could answer how to activate Tv-Shift!

Anybody searching for it can now find it.

Anyway:
Often I find posts/threads about manual lenses interesting and so this one which I never came across.
Very interesting Lowell's graphics in #8

The old link of marcusbmg didn't work anymore, but I found it via waybackmachine:
Using manual focus lenses on Pentax (and Samsung)DSLR's

I don't agree what is written there:
Av-Mode works not just wide-open with Takumars but it works similar as with the green button,
just that the metering is slightly different.

For a long time I had worked this way (Av + preset) but then found that M-Mode was that bit different/precise.

These days (glasses, eyesight) manual lenses are less on my bodies but again and again I am surprised when I use them.

05-22-2014, 06:38 AM	#1
JSnow Inactive Account Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 8	K 500 and manual lenses - M & A K 500 and manual lenses I've read quite few posts and looked up info both on this site and others - followed instructions etc, but am a bit confused - mainly as I have not found the TV shift option that is referred to, when setting up camera for manual lenses - either under E dial programming ( it's not on page 2) or under button customisation. ( I've read the K50 info in the Ricoh pentax site thinking the options would be the same) - Am I being incredibly thick? Yes I can take shots with my M lens if I press the green button when totally manual, terrible shots if I leave it on AV. But presume that I must be missing something out somewhere. Any advice would be welcome - ( for manual on K -500) (I presume that with an A lens the above is not necessary?) Thanks

05-22-2014, 09:29 AM	#5
JSnow Inactive Account Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 8 Original Poster	k500 and manual lenses Thanks for replies so far. Yes - ISO is manual, dial is set to M, focus is set to M, and I use the green button before taking the picture - but the readings don't seem that great. As I said I was confused about the info for the K50 - ( and others) which refers to TV shift - which I don't seem to have as an option.on the K -500 , therefore I presumed I was missing out a set or setting. At the moment I'm using an M 50mm f1.7, but will soon be getting an A lens, which I know should meter aperture and shutter automatically, if I've understood correctly. Perhaps I am already doing the right thing - but just taking duff photographs.

05-09-2022, 03:10 AM	#10
bczenkusz New Member Join Date: May 2022 Posts: 1	K500 and manual lenses Originally posted by JSnow K 500 and manual lenses I've read quite few posts and looked up info both on this site and others - followed instructions etc, but am a bit confused - mainly as I have not found the TV shift option that is referred to, when setting up camera for manual lenses - either under E dial programming ( it's not on page 2) or under button customisation. ( I've read the K50 info in the Ricoh pentax site thinking the options would be the same) - Am I being incredibly thick? On my K 500 , under E-dial programming, screen 2, choose the M option, on the next screen the dials are initially highlighted, move down to the green button and select it and you get multiple options including Tv Shift. I've been using an old manual zoom lens (no A), and I've found that pressing the green button does work under Live View mode, and this changes the shutter speed nicely, and works ok. However it does not work under viewfinder mode, or rather it seems to work once, but not a second time. Sticking to Live View works well.

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05-22-2014, 07:03 AM	#2
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	A few things. First, is AutoISO turned off when in M mode? AutoISO has to be turned off for Green Button metering to work in M mode. Second, with an A lens stop down metering is not necessary. The A lens is functionally the same as an autofocus lens with the exception of autofocus and you have to manually enter the focal length for SR.

05-22-2014, 07:07 AM	#3
marcusBMG Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: North Wales Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,868	Always helpful to say specifically what lenses you are using - M42/t-mount/P-KM/P-KM black/P-KA...?

05-22-2014, 08:42 AM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	Originally posted by JSnow K 500 and manual lenses I've read quite few posts and looked up info both on this site and others - followed instructions etc, but am a bit confused - mainly as I have not found the TV shift option that is referred to, when setting up camera for manual lenses - either under E dial programming ( it's not on page 2) or under button customisation. ( I've read the K50 info in the Ricoh pentax site thinking the options would be the same) - Am I being incredibly thick? Yes I can take shots with my M lens if I press the green button when totally manual, terrible shots if I leave it on AV. But presume that I must be missing something out somewhere. Any advice would be welcome - ( for manual on K -500) (I presume that with an A lens the above is not necessary?) Thanks Read this article and you should be good to go https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/54-pentax-lens-articles/110657-how-use-me...-x-k-7-a.html? Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

05-22-2014, 09:53 AM	#6
marcusBMG Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: North Wales Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,868	See my web pages: Using manual focus lenses on Pentax (and Samsung)DSLR's which discuss to some extent the pernickertiness and metering issues of pentax + vintage lenses.

05-22-2014, 04:21 PM	#7
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	With M, K or M42 lenses, the camera switches to center-weighted metering, no user intervention required. If you really got along with Matrix metering, center-weighted doesn't produce the same results. The seamless metering swap isn't that noticeable, but you press the green button and get something that's two stops wrong. Matrix is off sometimes but rarely that much off. In light that doesn't change a lot, once you arrive at a setting that produces a balanced histogram, it's often easier to skip the green button for each shot. Just open up a bit if you're pointed at a dark corner, stop down for brighter stuff. When light is changing faster, learn how CW metering thinks, and see the scene like it sees. Then you have a better chance of knowing where it will be off.

05-22-2014, 10:02 PM	#8
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	It is also important to note, and I have not personally seen results for other than flagship products (*istD, K10D, K7D and K5D) , that metering with manual lenses (non A lenses ) is very inconsistent as a function of aperture. See the graph below Also note that some bodies meter differently for M42 lenses in M vs Av mode, So you should check your histogram regularly. Also note, A lenses can work in all modes, and in M work differently than non A lenses. Specifically, For M lenses the lens is stopped down and metering is done in stopped down mode to set the exposure time. You will notice that metering is only accurate between F4 and F5.6 because this is the native aperture range of the kit lens. For all other apertures it is off, and you need to think a little about this error. for A lenses in M mode, the camera meters wide open, and compensates for the metering error for wide open aperture and sets shuttle speed appropriately. The lens is not stopped down to meter. What I recommend is that you meter off a neutral subject, I use tree trunks, paved (moderate grey not black) roads, gravel roads etc, to get an exposure reading for the subject I am shooting, then leave exposure alone until conditions change. Manual lenses are fun, but more time consuming, so slow down, learn how your lens behaves and then enjoy the results

05-24-2014, 07:53 AM	#9
JSnow Inactive Account Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 8 Original Poster	Thanks for the assistance. Had already looked up two of the pages suggested. It was the reference to selecting - TV shift - for green button on various info pages that threw me - can't find this on K-500. But whatever....it seems to be a bit hit and miss - the metering is not so great with the green button, but had fun taking 3 shots of everything today - what I thought it might be, green button shots, then adjustment shots. - the only trouble is that I wasn't writing any of it down!! (walking up a mountain trail with a crutch and a broken leg and a camera and lens bag was enough - let alone trying to make note of things!) But it's fun, it's years since I've done this all manually, it's made me far more critical - all those fully auto shots now just don't seem to look right... or at least they come too easy.It's a huge learning curve. Am looking forward to trying out the A lens when it arrives.

05-09-2022, 12:04 PM - 1 Like	#11
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,198	Originally posted by bczenkusz On my K 500 , under E-dial programming, screen 2, choose the M option, on the next screen the dials are initially highlighted, move down to the green button and select it and you get multiple options including Tv Shift. I've been using an old manual zoom lens (no A), and I've found that pressing the green button does work under Live View mode, and this changes the shutter speed nicely, and works ok. However it does not work under viewfinder mode, or rather it seems to work once, but not a second time. Sticking to Live View works well. Sir, you are replying to an eight year old post.

05-10-2022, 12:00 AM	#12
photogem Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,520	I think the answer is important because nobody could answer how to activate Tv-Shift! Anybody searching for it can now find it. Anyway: Often I find posts/threads about manual lenses interesting and so this one which I never came across. Very interesting Lowell's graphics in #8 The old link of marcusbmg didn't work anymore, but I found it via waybackmachine: Using manual focus lenses on Pentax (and Samsung)DSLR's I don't agree what is written there: Av-Mode works not just wide-open with Takumars but it works similar as with the green button, just that the metering is slightly different. For a long time I had worked this way (Av + preset) but then found that M-Mode was that bit different/precise. These days (glasses, eyesight) manual lenses are less on my bodies but again and again I am surprised when I use them.