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06-01-2014, 11:45 PM   #1
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K10D problem with... ISO?

Okay, a lil' background on me and my camera, if I may first:

Back in '08 my big brother got a K10D and I first learned to use it on an overseas trip right after that. He was around a lot that summer so I continued to use it and learn photography pointers from him (you know, beyond Green Mode "point here and click" stuff)

Two years ago I was given my own K10D as a Christmas gift and I have been using the crap out of that thing ever since. I would have to estimate upwards of six thousand pictures at concerts, in fields, of people... everything. I ate up all the settings and was totally loving it!
I say this to clarify that, while photography isn't my profession by any means, I am far from unacquainted with this model of camera.

Fast forward to a week ago. Another big brother of mine (youngest of six, here) was also ordered a K10D by mom and dad, to be a present. I did the actual purchasing and it was delivered to me, but when I got it, testing showed something to be, well, not quite right.

Here's the question to/problem for ye olde experts of glorie.
When I tried taking pictures with it in Green mode, the exposure (wrong term?) was waaaaaay dark. Dim enough that reviewing any photo taken brought up a solid black image, unless the photo was aimed at or contained a direct light source. (Lamp, daytime window, etc.) I first swapped the lenses and bodies of my K10D and the gift one in every combination I could. No dice. (I also tried swapping unrelated stuff - the SD card, etc. Don't know why.)
I also took some shots with no lens on at all, and those weren't solid black, but... I'm pretty sure they were still notably dim. Waay dim.

My brother noted that the view through the viewfinder is perfectly normal, so we figured that the problem is behind the lens: either the photo sensor itself, the shutter (er, is that there?) or... *cringe*... something software-related.

I reset the camera's setting in Menu>Set-Up>Reset, and nothing changed.
I updated the firmware to... hang on, lemme check... ver. 1.31. Nope.

The look of the photos themselves are like they're taken with low-ISO "film", so to speak. It seems that the camera is calculating exposure with an absurd bias. Whether I set the ISO to 100, 400, or 1600, it's all equally relatively underexposed - the image is dim or dark all together.

E.g. I just took a picture in manual mode. ISO 100, Aperture 4.0, and a whopping TWO SECOND shutter in a somewhat well-lit room. (Fairly usual bedroom lighting.) I replicated the shot with the ISO set to 400 and 800. Same. The 100 shot was dimer than ambient, 400 just barely dimmer, and 800 slightly brighter. Two freakin' seconds!
If my camera (the working one) is accurate, I should only need a shutter time of... what, 1/15? (I left that one with my brother - he had to leave town and I wasn't about to hand him a nonfunctional camera, so I swapped the bodies.)

The heck is going, friends? This is some pretty weird stuff, here...

06-01-2014, 11:51 PM   #2
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Is it possible that you have exposure compensation dialed all the way down?
06-01-2014, 11:56 PM   #3
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Let's see some sample photos- just attach them straight out of camera and the EXIF will show up. I would also take a few test photos outdoors- set the camera to ISO 100 and shoot at 1/125s F8. A test shot with no lens mounted at a relatively slow shutter speed would also help.

It could be that the lens's aperture mechanism is stuck, or there could be something wrong with the shutter. Or just a setting

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06-02-2014, 12:09 AM   #4
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Is it possible for you to manually set the shutter speed in M mode to something faster ? How do you actually get that 2 seconds time in M mode - with green button ?

I think the exposure compensation is irrelevant here as in M mode it wouldn't affect the shot. It could be the lens - have oyu used the lens on the other camera ? Lastly - it could be that your K10D is faulty with some issues with aperture actuator, so lens is staying fully stopped down - check when you shoot with open aperture if it actually stays open when you click .
And yeah some sample images with exif could help to diagnose the problem.
,,,

' >' manntax


06-02-2014, 01:32 AM   #5
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To OregonJim: No. That was reset along with all other settings when I reset, well, everything. In the menu.

To Adam: Oy vey. I'll take some well-documented test shots when I get a moment this afternoon. But it's not the lens - like I said, I switched and swapped the lenses from that camera and my camera in all possible configurations and it made no difference.

To Manntax: Not the green button - Just M mode, and I could have set the shutter faster, but that would have resulted in the image being almost completely black, as they almost all are when I shoot in green mode. (not green button. I don't even know what that one does exactly, to be honest.)
As for the lens, see above - I've now tried four different lenses on it with no difference.

"Lastly - it could be that your K10D is faulty with some issues with aperture actuator, so lens is staying fully stopped down - check when you shoot with open aperture if it actually stays open when you click ."
Er, not sure what you're referring to here. Could you explain that for me a bit?


Thanks so far, and I'll make sure to upload those pictures this afternoon!

Oh, also - I forgot to mention earlier that I got this off of e-bay. While the seller was a really nice guy, I wonder if it's worth the hassle of trying to sell it back to him. >_>
06-02-2014, 02:49 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Signet Quote
To Manntax: Not the green button - Just M mode, and I could have set the shutter faster, but that would have resulted in the image being almost completely black, as they almost all are when I shoot in green mode. (not green button. I don't even know what that one does exactly, to be honest.) As for the lens, see above - I've now tried four different lenses on it with no difference.
Well when you mount a lens on your camera - with the aperture in 'A' setting ( or a DA lens which hasn't got an aperture ring ) and when you look at the front of the lens while mounting , you will see that as you are turning the lens to secure it in the mount the aperture blades will open to become fully open. Now - in M mode , when you select any aperture ( and with ISO set to something different than AUTO !) - and whhen you use green button OR when you shot - the aperture should close down to the selected setting, OR should stay wide open if that was your selection. Check if that is the case - if not then there might be something wrong with the aperture actuator in the camera ( either mechanically or electronically ) - it is small latch that links the aperture mechanism from the lens to the body in order to stop it down correctly when you shot or meter in M mode with green button.

If the camera has issues - the only solution I see is to contact the seller and have your money back. There are plenty of other deals on K10D out there don't try to fix the problem but if it's there - refer to the seller.
,,,
' >' manntax
06-02-2014, 09:45 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by manntax Quote
If the camera has issues - the only solution I see is to contact the seller and have your money back. There are plenty of other deals on K10D out there don't try to fix the problem but if it's there - refer to the seller.
I agree. Return it while you still can.

One long-shot that's worth trying - clean the electrical contacts on the body's lens mount with alcohol. I have had occasions where intermittent contact with the lens caused the "F --" display. The shots were greatly overexposed because the lens was not properly stopped down (opposite of your symptoms), but cleaning fixed it.
06-02-2014, 01:20 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by manntax Quote
Well when you mount a lens on your camera - with the aperture in 'A' setting [...snip...] it is small latch that links the aperture mechanism from the lens to the body in order to stop it down correctly when you shot or meter in M mode with green button.
Okay, now this is something I had been wondering about! Initially I thought that maybe the aperture on the lens was broken, and that's why I kept swapping it out with my own lenses. But this info sounds very much like it could possibly be the problem.

Which basically means I'm screwed unless I can convince the (private) seller that he needs to take it back, eh?

---------- Post added 06-02-14 at 03:21 PM ----------

Also, I took the photos, but the resolution and size (data) of the images is larger than I can attach. I'll put them online somewhere if the need arises.

06-02-2014, 01:24 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Signet Quote
Okay, now this is something I had been wondering about! Initially I thought that maybe the aperture on the lens was broken, and that's why I kept swapping it out with my own lenses. But this info sounds very much like it could possibly be the problem. Which basically means I'm screwed unless I can convince the (private) seller that he needs to take it back, eh?
If the item is not as described you are covered by Buyer's protection programme - doesn't matter whether seller was private or business. If he advertised thje camera as fully working - and you can prove that it is not - then simple contact him and explain the problem. In case of trouble - open case ( preferably via eBay ) and you will get your money back. But before you do anything - make sure the camera is faulty and gather as much evidence as possible - note all strange behaviour, take photos of anything thaty might have indicate that the camera had fallen , etc.
Good luck !
,,,
' >' manntax
06-02-2014, 01:25 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Signet Quote
Okay, now this is something I had been wondering about! Initially I thought that maybe the aperture on the lens was broken, and that's why I kept swapping it out with my own lenses. But this info sounds very much like it could possibly be the problem.

Which basically means I'm screwed unless I can convince the (private) seller that he needs to take it back, eh?

---------- Post added 06-02-14 at 03:21 PM ----------

Also, I took the photos, but the resolution and size (data) of the images is larger than I can attach. I'll put them online somewhere if the need arises.
Just attach the files, they should automatically be scaled as long as you upload less than 40mb at a time.

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06-02-2014, 02:01 PM   #11
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Update: I took some shots while looking at the lens (from in front of the camera, that is). While this
QuoteOriginally posted by manntax Quote
when you look at the front of the lens while mounting , you will see that as you are turning the lens to secure it in the mount the aperture blades will open to become fully open.
did happen, every time I would take a shot, on any aperture setting, the aperture would be closed down as tight as possible.

So, at least the we've found the symptom of the symptom. Now I wonder what the real problem is.
06-02-2014, 02:49 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Signet Quote
did happen, every time I would take a shot, on any aperture setting, the aperture would be closed down as tight as possible. So, at least the we've found the symptom of the symptom. Now I wonder what the real problem is. Report Post Like Signet's Post
Ok, that's something ! Now to clarify - is the aperture full open BEFORE you take the shot or is it closed down and stays the same when you click ? Still we talking about a DA lens - or other but in 'A' setting - right ?
If lens is constantly fully closed - then two possibilities are - one is that lens' aperture latch actuator is bent so it doesn't engage the latch inside the camera's mount - or opposite is true - the camera's latch that supposed to engage the aperture in lens is bent so it doesn't do it's job. Check if that latch inside the camera's mount is springy - should go up and down - perhaps there is something blocked.
,,,
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06-02-2014, 05:16 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Signet Quote
Update: I took some shots while looking at the lens (from in front of the camera, that is). While this

did happen, every time I would take a shot, on any aperture setting, the aperture would be closed down as tight as possible.

So, at least the we've found the symptom of the symptom. Now I wonder what the real problem is.
I remember seeing a post on this site a month or so back where the actuator mechanism in the body was broken in such a way so as to not engage the lever on the lens. The damage was readily visible on examination. Your camera should look like this photo of my K10D minus the crud in the mirror box



The red arrow points to the "catch" that should engage the lever on your lens. If the catch is missing or in other than the position shown, there is a problem.


Steve
06-02-2014, 07:33 PM   #14
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Hmm. Some yes-ing here and some no-ing as well. The aperture is wide open until I take the picture - that's when it tightens up.

The lens being used is.. er... yeah, a DA lens. It's the more-or-less standard Pentax 18-55 DA that I always see with this model.

That tab/latch/thing you pointed out in the picture and everything else there is just as you show it, but I'll be darned if it's springy. It won't budge under the amount of push I'm willing to give it. _
06-02-2014, 09:31 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Signet Quote
but I'll be darned if it's springy.
The tab on my K10D is not springy. It is coupled to a stepping motor and moves when the motor moves.


Steve
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