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06-07-2014, 09:48 AM   #1
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Cant turn on after Firmware update. Need help!

Hello, i just purchased a Pentax k-5, and would update the Firmware. But the battery ran out while updating. And now i can't turn it on . Can some help.

06-07-2014, 10:47 AM   #2
pqx
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Hi,

It would be my understanding that this would "brick" the camera, meaning the ROM inside now has no information. This would mean the camera is sadly incapacitated or dead. I would urge you to contact first your dealer then pentax itself as they will charge for this as indicated in the policy when carrying out this type of update.

I am sorry to tell you this and hope your dealer is understanding and can provide you with support or a replacement.
06-07-2014, 11:21 AM   #3
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Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

My understanding is that this problem is recoverable, but requires a call to Pentax and potential involvement of a service facility. Loss of power on firmware update is not a good thing and is specifically addressed in the update instructions.

Have you attempted a retry with a fully charged battery?


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-07-2014 at 11:27 AM.
06-07-2014, 11:25 AM   #4
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I buy the camera used...

06-07-2014, 11:26 AM   #5
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bought*
06-07-2014, 11:48 AM   #6
pqx
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QuoteOriginally posted by pqx Quote
Hi,

It would be my understanding that this would "brick" the camera, meaning the ROM inside now has no information. This would mean the camera is sadly incapacitated or dead. I would urge you to contact first your dealer then pentax itself as they will charge for this as indicated in the policy when carrying out this type of update.

I am sorry to tell you this and hope your dealer is understanding and can provide you with support or a replacement.
Hi again,

I just wanted to give you a little more info.

The motherboard module contains information on microchip just like computers do. When a system boots up it reads from a RAM or ROM chip (Random/Read access memory), if while updating this chip contains no info then this system becomes blind. No INFO.

What has i believe happened is that half way through your update your battery ran low, so then the system never got to finish. This is the reason you may see a power light maybe even a bright screen but the chip only contains currupt unfinished info so is unable to boot the usual interface.


As the User above has said it can be re-coverable but in the policy you agree to when updating the firmware it states that PENTAX will charge you for a non boot or failed update.

When these items are recovered they access the bios of the system usually via a terminal like the one for the usb, its then put through a computer and application that can access low-level hardware. Once here they transfer a new system ROM file back onto the system then continue with the update file as normal. That's it the system will now work.

Hope you understand at least some of what's involved and good luck with your dealer because he is your gateway to PENTAX.
06-08-2014, 08:01 AM   #7
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I'm not sure anyone on the forum has the information or hardware/software you would need to restore the firmware. I'm assuming you've retried loading the firmware with a fresh battery, and that you never get any messages on the back lcd. There's probably no alternative to simply sending the camera in to pentax for service and paying whatever the cost turns out to be.

For the benefit of others, you might explain whether you had fully charged the battery before the update, and whether the charge indicator on the camera indicated a full charge. It's possible that your battery was defective/worn out, but it would be helpful to others to know whether you had in fact followed the recommended procedure and still had this happen. I would probably never have thought of it, but it might be a good idea, when dealing with an unknown used camera and battery, to test the camera out somewhat extensively before attempting an update, enough to see if the charge lasts a reasonable length of time. That would also help to identify whether any behavior changed following the update.
06-11-2014, 02:31 PM   #8
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If it really is re-coverable with the ROM on the main board (and even the main board inside the body), that must be something new.
I doubt it.
At least before the K-7, the procedure was to partially disassemble the camera and replace the processor board.
Whether the old board was sent to Japan and the ROM replaced (or even "repaired" while still on the board), to be used for re-furbishing... who knows?

I just heard they charged $300-$500 for this fix, with not so much difference depending on the DSLR model.
Maybe they really designed the newer boards in a way it enables fixing the ROM without all this. But I would like to hear a proof for that.

It is not a long time since many desktop computers were killed by failed ROM updates. "Fixing" ment to replace the main board (which in fact means replacing the computer).

06-11-2014, 02:58 PM   #9
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A computer is a.... Computer

"RKKS08: I doubt it!"

Be it a pc, television, fridge, microwave, watch or camera - A computer is a computer. And if I programme rip them apart and make them into unrecocognizable robotic machines... They are still binary made computers which all programmers can understand given the right blueprint and documentation. They are just computers.


A taste to wet the appitites of non-believers!!!

Pentax Tags

Last edited by pqx; 06-11-2014 at 03:40 PM. Reason: spelling
06-13-2014, 06:53 AM   #10
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RKKS08 gave a clear description of the issue and its fix and its cost and he was absolutely correct.


A recent contributer on here had the exact same problem and the exact fix as described by RKKS08 except the cost quoted by Ricoh for the repair was now over 700 dollars.


This is like buying a used Ford Pickup for 10,000 dollars, updating the firmware on the pickup and finding the update rendered the vehicle unusable and ford charging 8,000 dollars to fix it.


Failing a firmware update is death for the camera and many registered members on here have discovered this sad fact to their cost. Some chose to throw the camera in the dumpster, it cost more to fix it than to buy a second hand replacement camera.


As described, there is no fix for this other than to send it to Ricoh for repair and pay whatever cost they decide to charge.


It requires a main board swap in factory.


They will ask if you want to proceed before undertaking any work.


Ricoh/Pentax should stop this practice, solutions can exist. a rudimentary additional rom that allows firmware upgrades to proceed when the primary firmware rom is empty would fix this, but it would put a few dollars on the cost of manufacturing each camera.


Until this happens I wont be upgrading my firmware unless there's no other choice.


I don't mean to sound harsh but these are the facts.
06-13-2014, 09:22 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imageman Quote
Ricoh/Pentax should stop this practice, solutions can exist.
Yes, solutions exist, but it would be good to note that a "safe" update process for most devices is relatively rare and full re-flash capability equally so.* As for the Ford truck analogy...it is fully possible for user maintenance to render a vehicle unusable with repair estimates exceeding the value.

The complicating factor with older cameras is that battery condition is difficult to assess. Too bad Ricoh/Pentax (along with many other makes) does not provide an AC adapter as regular equipment.


Steve
06-13-2014, 08:06 PM   #12
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I wonder if the camera would boot when a SD card with the K-5 debug options code files is inserted?
06-14-2014, 02:16 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I wonder if the camera would boot when a SD card with the K-5 debug options code files is inserted?
In theory this would be possible. Short version of why I hope it is not:

The processor will have some built-in hard wired code to get basic access to the ROM, otherwise it would not start. But the device drivers for the SD card handling will certainly not be part of it, these had been on the ROM. With the re-start after the failed ROM update the used copy in the RAM is gone, so now it does not "understand" the card anymore.

Even if - after the failed update - these drivers would be again correctly on the ROM, programmers should have taken measures to make it impossible to load anything from a ROM with inconsistant contents.

Faulty programs which can be started (but run with malfunctions), and programs which run correctly (but with wrong parameters) can do all kinds of damage to the hardware. This includes destroying sensor electronics, motors, lens mechanics, and, in worst case, set rechargeable lithium batteries on fire. The burning of lithium batteries cannot be stopped (till the chemicals are used up), and in the burning process may explode and spread fire all over the room.

Last edited by RKKS08; 06-14-2014 at 10:56 AM. Reason: typing
06-18-2014, 02:42 PM   #14
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I think that if it was a more common happening (sorry to the OP, that really sucks, regardless of how it all went down) they would include another bios chip on the mainboard. They do this on some PC mobos, and it can prove invaluable for recovering from a bad flash (or a failed overclocking experiment). If that's really how much it costs to have Ricoh attempt a repair, I would just buy a brand new body, and chalk one up to experience.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

EDIT: Similar to what RKKS08 is saying, a lot of tablets have hard coded ROM that you can't break. One of the easiest tablets to flash is a Nook Color. Pretty much impossible to brick one of those, and easy to revert back to the original bios (force 8 consecutive failed restarts, and it automagically loads the original ROM, discarding the alternate startup info that was on the SD card).

Last edited by esrandall; 06-18-2014 at 02:50 PM. Reason: trivial info added
06-18-2014, 05:35 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Warez Quote
Hello, i just purchased a Pentax k-5, and would update the Firmware. But the battery ran out while updating. And now i can't turn it on . Can some help.
I killed my "almost brand new" K-7 in a similar way - the camera was switched off during the lengthy firmware update. Pentax Canada offered me a trade up or down (plus cash) to a new camera, I took the K-r and like it better than the K-7 - brighter viewfinder. Check with your Pentax Service Depot and see whether they offer similar trade, which could be less costly and quicker than repairing.
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