Lens comparing ..28-80 or a 18-55 help a newbie please.

jadedrakerider · 09-01-2014, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by when-daybreaks

What I'm really looking for is a lens for star trails and shooting multiple exposures of the MilkyWay.

Go with a fast prime lens. You can get a manual focus version for cheap on eBay, you'll get nice bright star trails, and they'll be much sharper than most any zoom lens you can get your mitts on.

**Rondec** · 09-01-2014, 02:46 AM - **1 Like**

The FA J 28-80 was not a very good lens. Poor contrast and really prone to flare. Only particular pluses were that it was light, compact, and auto focused.

when-daybreaks · 09-01-2014, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The FA J 28-80 was not a very good lens. Poor contrast and really prone to flare. Only particular pluses were that it was light, compact, and auto focused.

Thanks yeah I'm not going to be getting that one.

what about just the 28 then?

**Rondec** · 09-01-2014, 05:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by when-daybreaks

Thanks yeah I'm not going to be getting that one.

what about just the 28 then?

That one is OK, just be warned that it isn't particularly wide on an APS-C camera. As long as you're OK with the focal length, it's a fine lens.

when-daybreaks · 09-01-2014, 05:02 AM

Yeah just looking for something little and manual to learn with so I don't mind.

Oldbayrunner · 09-01-2014, 05:37 AM - **1 Like**

The 18-55mm kind of gets a bad rap but It is still a decent lens and can take very decent pictures, if used properly it take sharp enough photos that a little post processing can make them look really sharp without needing to over sharpen them. As far as the 28-80, if you still want an older very inexpensive lens that is auto and manual to play with then I would suggest taking a look at the SMC-F 35-70mm 3.5-4.5. It is a great little lens that even has a fun close up macro.

when-daybreaks · 09-01-2014, 06:32 AM

Okay I'll add that to my list

there is a 28mm for sale that seems to be in good shape they have photos up too plus the case and hood and caps ..

---------- Post added 09-01-14 at 06:32 AM ----------

And the 18-55mm is coming with my camera so I'll have that one a 28mm and a 50mm

Oldbayrunner · 09-01-2014, 08:28 AM - **1 Like**

As a newbie suggestion, don't look at any zoom lens as such, look at is as a lens with a number of different focal length prime lenses within one lens. Confusing..... not really.... I lot of people use zoom lenses by standing and zooming the lens in and out until they get it where the want and snap away, which to me isn't going to give consistent desired results.... been there done that.

If you were lets say using an 18mm lens, it has a certain focal length, angle of view, magnification depth of field etc. You wouldn't be able to zoom it and would need to move yourself to get your subject, composition etc. in the frame the way you want it while controlling all of the elements of the lens and your composition output. Then if you switched to a 28mm prime lens then it would change the focal length, angle of view, magnification, depth of field etc.and you would need to move yourself to get the the subject in the frame and composition the way you want it and so on and so forth resulting in a different end result.
So my point is, you may find that if you treat your zoom lenses as though you were using a series of prime lenses and select the lens focal length, aperture etc first by using yourself to set up the composition I think you will find you will get better creative end results overall.

I found this gents videos which show and can explain all of this much better than I.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeu1p5jL9GOMp6eXmAcXIASb8UE98_kO4

6BQ5 · 09-01-2014, 12:36 PM - **1 Like**

I have many of the older F and FA zoom lenses in the 2x to 3x range. Those lenses comes from a different era and it really shows. There is a lot more metal in their construction and they are heavier compared to the DA and DA L lens. In terms of IQ they are generally softer wide open when compared to the modern kit lens but performance is very similar when stopped down. Unfortunately, this makes it a slow lens but in broad daylight this shouldn't be an issue unless you are looking for subject isolation and artistic bokeh. Where the DA kit lens does well the older F/FA lenses suffer and where the DA kit lens suffers is where the older F/FA lenses excel. The biggest pro I have seen in the older lenses is the color rendering. No matter which lens I use from that era the colors come across very rich and vivid without being saturated. Some of the lenses lack contrast due to flare and internal reflections but all of that can be very easily corrected in post processing if you don't mind.

I personally don't mind some flare if you know how to control it. It can add beauty to your shots. You have to do a lot of counter intuitive things though, like shoot into the sun, spot meter, and some gentle post processing to even out the exposure.

IMGP9576 by Never Off, on Flickr

The nice thing about the older lenses is that they are FF. Aberrations and softness which seem magnified on an APS sized sensor due to the crop factor may end up looking smaller on FF should Ricoh ever make a FF DSLR. The lenses are also very, very cheap. For $20-$30 you can pick up a lens off of eBay and have some fun experimenting.

The real winners in my book from this era are the 28-105mm zooms (especially the f/3.2 version) and the 35-70mm zooms. The 28-200mm and the 28-70mm are fine too but they sit lower on my list of favorites.

when-daybreaks · 09-01-2014, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Oldbayrunner

As a newbie suggestion, don't look at any zoom lens as such, look at is as a lens with a number of different focal length prime lenses within one lens. Confusing..... not really.... I lot of people use zoom lenses by standing and zooming the lens in and out until they get it where the want and snap away, which to me isn't going to give consistent desired results.... been there done that.

If you were lets say using an 18mm lens, it has a certain focal length, angle of view, magnification depth of field etc. You wouldn't be able to zoom it and would need to move yourself to get your subject, composition etc. in the frame the way you want it while controlling all of the elements of the lens and your composition output. Then if you switched to a 28mm prime lens then it would change the focal length, angle of view, magnification, depth of field etc.and you would need to move yourself to get the the subject in the frame and composition the way you want it and so on and so forth resulting in a different end result.
So my point is, you may find that if you treat your zoom lenses as though you were using a series of prime lenses and select the lens focal length, aperture etc first by using yourself to set up the composition I think you will find you will get better creative end results overall.

I found this gents videos which show and can explain all of this much better than I.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeu1p5jL9GOMp6eXmAcXIASb8UE98_kO4

Oh I actually get what your saying

makes sense.

My brother thought he was bringing me an old Polaroid camera the ones that you used to shake

but it was an old film Minolta idk how he mixed that up but.... It has a 75-300mm pretty sure it's 55m and a 35-80mm lens which has 52.. is there an adapter I can use them in my new pentax k-50 is a 52m so maybe I only need one adapter?

Oldbayrunner · 09-01-2014, 04:27 PM

Don't bother wasting your money on an adapter for those. Fotodiox makes one but it costs from $45.00 to 70.00 for one and you still wont be able to take decent pictures using it...been there. Some members have modified their Minolta lenses to fit Pentax K mount but your better off not even fooling around with them on your Pentax. There's too many good K mounts out there you would be happier with.

when-daybreaks · 09-01-2014, 04:56 PM

Why wouldn't it take good pictures? The one is a 52mm so wouldn't it fit my pentax which is also 52mm? I read that a lot of quantaray lenses were just rebranded lenses .. Does that make a difference?

Sagitta · 09-01-2014, 04:59 PM - **1 Like**

FWIW, I tend to use the 28-90 over the 18-55 when given the choice. I find the IQ close enough to no be worth worrying over, and the 28-90 simply has more range.

Once I picked up my Sigma 10-20, the 18-55 pretty much has been ignored.

**boriscleto** · 09-01-2014, 05:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by when-daybreaks

Why wouldn't it take good pictures? The one is a 52mm so wouldn't it fit my pentax which is also 52mm? I read that a lot of quantaray lenses were just rebranded lenses .. Does that make a difference?

A Pentax camera uses a Pentax K mount, a Minolta manual focus camera uses the Minolta SR mount. The 55 and 52 you are referring to is the diameter of the filter threads on the front of the lens.

Lens mount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The SR mount has a Flange Focal Distance of 43.5mm. That is the distance the the mounting flange has to be from the plane of the sensor. The Pentax K mount has a flange focal distance of 45.46mm. You can adapt a K-mount lens to Minolta SR (in theory) without optical correction, but to adapt Minolta SR to Pentax K requires optical correction. The optically corrected adapter is really a short tele-converter.

Oldbayrunner · 09-01-2014, 05:31 PM - **1 Like**

+1 on Boris... I found the using the adapter with the optical glass I couldn't get a reasonably close to sharp image even with the camera and lenses I used on a tripod. It was supposed to optically correct for infinity but the one I got didn't. I wound up sending it back and getting rid of the MD glass.

09-01-2014, 05:37 AM - 1 Like	#21
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,666	The 18-55mm kind of gets a bad rap but It is still a decent lens and can take very decent pictures, if used properly it take sharp enough photos that a little post processing can make them look really sharp without needing to over sharpen them. As far as the 28-80, if you still want an older very inexpensive lens that is auto and manual to play with then I would suggest taking a look at the SMC-F 35-70mm 3.5-4.5. It is a great little lens that even has a fun close up macro. Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 09-01-2014 at 05:46 AM.

09-01-2014, 12:51 PM	#25
when-daybreaks Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Ohio Posts: 72 Original Poster	Originally posted by Oldbayrunner As a newbie suggestion, don't look at any zoom lens as such, look at is as a lens with a number of different focal length prime lenses within one lens. Confusing..... not really.... I lot of people use zoom lenses by standing and zooming the lens in and out until they get it where the want and snap away, which to me isn't going to give consistent desired results.... been there done that. If you were lets say using an 18mm lens, it has a certain focal length, angle of view, magnification depth of field etc. You wouldn't be able to zoom it and would need to move yourself to get your subject, composition etc. in the frame the way you want it while controlling all of the elements of the lens and your composition output. Then if you switched to a 28mm prime lens then it would change the focal length, angle of view, magnification, depth of field etc.and you would need to move yourself to get the the subject in the frame and composition the way you want it and so on and so forth resulting in a different end result. So my point is, you may find that if you treat your zoom lenses as though you were using a series of prime lenses and select the lens focal length, aperture etc first by using yourself to set up the composition I think you will find you will get better creative end results overall. I found this gents videos which show and can explain all of this much better than I. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeu1p5jL9GOMp6eXmAcXIASb8UE98_kO4 Oh I actually get what your saying makes sense. My brother thought he was bringing me an old Polaroid camera the ones that you used to shake but it was an old film Minolta idk how he mixed that up but.... It has a 75-300mm pretty sure it's 55m and a 35-80mm lens which has 52.. is there an adapter I can use them in my new pentax k-50 is a 52m so maybe I only need one adapter? Last edited by when-daybreaks; 09-01-2014 at 03:55 PM.

09-01-2014, 05:01 PM - 1 Like	#29
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	Originally posted by when-daybreaks Why wouldn't it take good pictures? The one is a 52mm so wouldn't it fit my pentax which is also 52mm? I read that a lot of quantaray lenses were just rebranded lenses .. Does that make a difference? A Pentax camera uses a Pentax K mount, a Minolta manual focus camera uses the Minolta SR mount. The 55 and 52 you are referring to is the diameter of the filter threads on the front of the lens. Lens mount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The SR mount has a Flange Focal Distance of 43.5mm. That is the distance the the mounting flange has to be from the plane of the sensor. The Pentax K mount has a flange focal distance of 45.46mm. You can adapt a K-mount lens to Minolta SR (in theory) without optical correction, but to adapt Minolta SR to Pentax K requires optical correction. The optically corrected adapter is really a short tele-converter. Last edited by boriscleto; 09-01-2014 at 05:09 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Please help a newbie make sense of superzoom lenses	thechumpen	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	17	10-11-2012 04:43 AM
Buying a K5 - but with 18-135mm lens kit? Or an 18-55 + 50-200mm lens kit?	robinfaz	Pentax K-5 & K-5 II	12	06-04-2012 01:44 PM
A little help please, 18-55 lens?	InlawBiker	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	4	02-28-2011 04:00 AM
my first lens - please help a newbie out	n8cas	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	24	01-23-2008 08:39 AM

09-01-2014, 12:46 AM	#16
jadedrakerider Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mohave Valley, AZ Photos: Gallery Posts: 214	Originally posted by when-daybreaks What I'm really looking for is a lens for star trails and shooting multiple exposures of the MilkyWay. Go with a fast prime lens. You can get a manual focus version for cheap on eBay, you'll get nice bright star trails, and they'll be much sharper than most any zoom lens you can get your mitts on.

09-01-2014, 02:46 AM - 1 Like	#17
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	The FA J 28-80 was not a very good lens. Poor contrast and really prone to flare. Only particular pluses were that it was light, compact, and auto focused.

09-01-2014, 04:54 AM	#18
when-daybreaks Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Ohio Posts: 72 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rondec The FA J 28-80 was not a very good lens. Poor contrast and really prone to flare. Only particular pluses were that it was light, compact, and auto focused. Thanks yeah I'm not going to be getting that one. what about just the 28 then?

09-01-2014, 05:00 AM - 1 Like	#19
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	Originally posted by when-daybreaks Thanks yeah I'm not going to be getting that one. what about just the 28 then? That one is OK, just be warned that it isn't particularly wide on an APS-C camera. As long as you're OK with the focal length, it's a fine lens.

09-01-2014, 05:02 AM	#20
when-daybreaks Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Ohio Posts: 72 Original Poster	Yeah just looking for something little and manual to learn with so I don't mind.

09-01-2014, 06:32 AM	#22
when-daybreaks Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Ohio Posts: 72 Original Poster	Okay I'll add that to my list there is a 28mm for sale that seems to be in good shape they have photos up too plus the case and hood and caps .. ---------- Post added 09-01-14 at 06:32 AM ---------- And the 18-55mm is coming with my camera so I'll have that one a 28mm and a 50mm

09-01-2014, 08:28 AM - 1 Like	#23
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,666	As a newbie suggestion, don't look at any zoom lens as such, look at is as a lens with a number of different focal length prime lenses within one lens. Confusing..... not really.... I lot of people use zoom lenses by standing and zooming the lens in and out until they get it where the want and snap away, which to me isn't going to give consistent desired results.... been there done that. If you were lets say using an 18mm lens, it has a certain focal length, angle of view, magnification depth of field etc. You wouldn't be able to zoom it and would need to move yourself to get your subject, composition etc. in the frame the way you want it while controlling all of the elements of the lens and your composition output. Then if you switched to a 28mm prime lens then it would change the focal length, angle of view, magnification, depth of field etc.and you would need to move yourself to get the the subject in the frame and composition the way you want it and so on and so forth resulting in a different end result. So my point is, you may find that if you treat your zoom lenses as though you were using a series of prime lenses and select the lens focal length, aperture etc first by using yourself to set up the composition I think you will find you will get better creative end results overall. I found this gents videos which show and can explain all of this much better than I. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeu1p5jL9GOMp6eXmAcXIASb8UE98_kO4

09-01-2014, 12:36 PM - 1 Like	#24
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	I have many of the older F and FA zoom lenses in the 2x to 3x range. Those lenses comes from a different era and it really shows. There is a lot more metal in their construction and they are heavier compared to the DA and DA L lens. In terms of IQ they are generally softer wide open when compared to the modern kit lens but performance is very similar when stopped down. Unfortunately, this makes it a slow lens but in broad daylight this shouldn't be an issue unless you are looking for subject isolation and artistic bokeh. Where the DA kit lens does well the older F/FA lenses suffer and where the DA kit lens suffers is where the older F/FA lenses excel. The biggest pro I have seen in the older lenses is the color rendering. No matter which lens I use from that era the colors come across very rich and vivid without being saturated. Some of the lenses lack contrast due to flare and internal reflections but all of that can be very easily corrected in post processing if you don't mind. I personally don't mind some flare if you know how to control it. It can add beauty to your shots. You have to do a lot of counter intuitive things though, like shoot into the sun, spot meter, and some gentle post processing to even out the exposure. IMGP9576 by Never Off, on Flickr The nice thing about the older lenses is that they are FF. Aberrations and softness which seem magnified on an APS sized sensor due to the crop factor may end up looking smaller on FF should Ricoh ever make a FF DSLR. The lenses are also very, very cheap. For $20-$30 you can pick up a lens off of eBay and have some fun experimenting. The real winners in my book from this era are the 28-105mm zooms (especially the f/3.2 version) and the 35-70mm zooms. The 28-200mm and the 28-70mm are fine too but they sit lower on my list of favorites.

09-01-2014, 04:27 PM	#26
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,666	Don't bother wasting your money on an adapter for those. Fotodiox makes one but it costs from $45.00 to 70.00 for one and you still wont be able to take decent pictures using it...been there. Some members have modified their Minolta lenses to fit Pentax K mount but your better off not even fooling around with them on your Pentax. There's too many good K mounts out there you would be happier with.

09-01-2014, 04:56 PM	#27
when-daybreaks Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Ohio Posts: 72 Original Poster	Why wouldn't it take good pictures? The one is a 52mm so wouldn't it fit my pentax which is also 52mm? I read that a lot of quantaray lenses were just rebranded lenses .. Does that make a difference?

09-01-2014, 04:59 PM - 1 Like	#28
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	FWIW, I tend to use the 28-90 over the 18-55 when given the choice. I find the IQ close enough to no be worth worrying over, and the 28-90 simply has more range. Once I picked up my Sigma 10-20, the 18-55 pretty much has been ignored.

09-01-2014, 05:31 PM - 1 Like	#30
Oldbayrunner Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,666	+1 on Boris... I found the using the adapter with the optical glass I couldn't get a reasonably close to sharp image even with the camera and lenses I used on a tripod. It was supposed to optically correct for infinity but the one I got didn't. I wound up sending it back and getting rid of the MD glass.