Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-09-2014, 10:01 AM   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 154
Pef-dng

I have been shooting jpeg, and had great results. But after a recent shoot, wish I could have changed a few things.
So have been shooting Raw in PEF format. My Question is should I be using DNG instead?
I was out this past weekend to shoot a sunset and it was off the charts, colors etc.
So I am in Raw- PEF go threw photos in camera and all look great, I think.
Don't laugh so I process one image from Raw to jpeg in camera and have large print done.
It was a dude! Will look at settings etc. again.
Sorry for the long one, I'am shopping for a different computer and software. (Another thread) Thank You

10-09-2014, 10:05 AM   #2
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,713
Use DNG there is generally more support especially if you use Adobe software. PEF is Pentax proprietary.
10-09-2014, 10:06 AM   #3
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 154
Original Poster
It was a Dud not a Dude, saga continues
10-09-2014, 10:08 AM   #4
Loyal Site Supporter
TER-OR's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dundee, IL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,766
Yah, dng gives you more options. Just switch if you want to be able to process with Lightroom etc.

10-09-2014, 10:42 AM   #5
Pentaxian
Oldbayrunner's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 1,226
QuoteOriginally posted by Storm Chaser Quote
I have been shooting jpeg, and had great results. But after a recent shoot, wish I could have changed a few things.
So have been shooting Raw in PEF format. My Question is should I be using DNG instead?
I was out this past weekend to shoot a sunset and it was off the charts, colors etc.
So I am in Raw- PEF go threw photos in camera and all look great, I think.
Don't laugh so I process one image from Raw to jpeg in camera and have large print done.
It was a dude! Will look at settings etc. again.
Sorry for the long one, I'am shopping for a different computer and software. (Another thread) Thank You
From this I gather your printing problem isn't whether to use Pef or DNG. Your main problem may lie in not having your monitor calibrated correctly so what you see for your post processing via your monitor isn't going to print the same. Even if you get a new computer and if you plan on printing your photos you will need to calibrate your new monitor with preferably a good external calibration tool or you may have the same problem. BTW careful of your monitor selection as many monitors cannot be accurately calibrated leading to the same problem.
10-09-2014, 10:43 AM   #6
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,761
Raw is raw, pef and dng are just containers. But some software will still refuse to read pef, or refuse to read a dng just because it doesn't know the camera code, even though it could read the raw data normally. So if you are using Pentax software, go with pef. If you are using third party, dng is probably the better choice. And make sure the colour space you chose in-camera fits the one that is set in the PP software. While a lot of software doesn't care about pef or dng and colour space, it is best to minimize the chances for there to be imperfections in conversions

Last edited by Na Horuk; 10-09-2014 at 10:52 AM.
10-09-2014, 10:59 AM   #7
Senior Member
Undot's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 176
Either format should be fine in terms of quality. But as others already said, PEF is a Pentax format. DNG is developed by Adobe but is an open and license free one. So anyone can use it and offer its support. Full source code and specs are available, too.

Whilst I wish no harm to either Pentax nor Adobe, it can take very little time for a format (or company) to become extinct. So I'll always pick an open format if I get the choice.
10-09-2014, 11:19 AM   #8
Moderator PEG Judges
Kerrowdown's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Highlands of Scotland.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 32,153
Yep another vote for DNG, there are even some Pentax cameras that don't support Pentax native PEF anymore.

10-09-2014, 11:45 AM   #9
Pentaxian
Just1MoreDave's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,841
My choice is driven by Lightroom. I import files from the card and have LR send originals to an archive location. Then it makes a DNG conversion and puts that into the catalog. I work with the DNG conversion. My older cameras are set to PEF so I can tell right away which files have come from the archive. The incompatibility means they won't even open and potentially altered by a stupid program.

I have LR set to use the Embedded camera profile, not Adobe. I had to switch the K-5 IIs to DNG because the embedded profile was not available from a converted PEF, but it was there for converted DNGs. I don't know why.

Adobe doesn't want to alter the PEF format because it's proprietary. So in LR, it will create a second file to store LR edits. Adobe helped create DNGs and knows where to safely store its LR edit data. I suppose there are two arguments here. I don't like a ton of tiny files tagging along, possibly lost. So again I have more reasons to work with DNGs.

Adobe has a separate utility that will convert PEFs to DNGs. It's in the same section on their site as the Camera RAW updates.
10-09-2014, 11:52 AM   #10
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,713
Dave why are you making a DNG conversion rather than shooting in DNG? Does this have some benefit? And what format are you shooting in?
10-09-2014, 12:38 PM   #11
Pentaxian
Just1MoreDave's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,841
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Dave why are you making a DNG conversion rather than shooting in DNG? Does this have some benefit? And what format are you shooting in?
It looks stupid - I start with DNG now and take an extra step to convert to... DNG. But there is a reason. I got the tip from a Martin Evening Lightroom book. LR has to be able to read the whole file to make the conversion, so you know right away if the file is corrupted in reading from the card. Sometimes the embedded preview is intact in a corrupted file, and it looks OK until you start to work with it. At that point it may be too late to recover the file from the card. I don't think there is any real difference between the files. Pentax DCU4 doesn't want to open the conversions but it's probably just a tag in EXIF.
10-09-2014, 01:03 PM   #12
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,761
Converting from dng to dng can be useful because it can solve compatibility issues or conserve space. You can use either the adobe free program, or Lightroom's built-in import as dng function
10-09-2014, 05:10 PM   #13
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,097
QuoteOriginally posted by TER-OR Quote
Yah, dng gives you more options.
Unless it doesn't. With PEF, Lightroom provides the option to save the metadata (development setting and such) as a separate "sidecar" file. With DNG, Lightroom overwrites the original file, saving the metadata directly to the DNG. The resulting file is still DNG RAW, but not what came out of the camera. The sidecar file on the other hand is a light weight mechanism to share metadata between you and a service bureau or printer that does not require moving the large DNG files around.

QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Raw is raw, pef and dng are just containers.
Yes, this is true and the Pentax flavor of DNG is quite different than an Adobe-generated DNG (e.g. from a TIFF). DNG is a specification that is contextually interpreted.

QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Converting from dng to dng can be useful because it can solve compatibility issues or conserve space.
It may indeed, but at the price of overwriting the original source file. Some people are picky about this, particularly if there are legal implications for the image.


Steve
10-09-2014, 09:10 PM   #14
Pentaxian
Just1MoreDave's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,841
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Unless it doesn't. With PEF, Lightroom provides the option to save the metadata (development setting and such) as a separate "sidecar" file. With DNG, Lightroom overwrites the original file, saving the metadata directly to the DNG. The resulting file is still DNG RAW, but not what came out of the camera. The sidecar file on the other hand is a light weight mechanism to share metadata between you and a service bureau or printer that does not require moving the large DNG files around.
LR has the option to create a sidecar XMP file for DNG too. It's under Catalog Settings > Metadata. It has plenty of other ways to rewrite a DNG, replacing the preview JPG for example, so maintain an original outside the catalog.
10-10-2014, 10:51 AM   #15
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 27,097
QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
LR has the option to create a sidecar XMP file for DNG too. It's under Catalog Settings > Metadata. It has plenty of other ways to rewrite a DNG, replacing the preview JPG for example, so maintain an original outside the catalog.
Dave, I don't know which version of LR you are using. I have 5.6 (non-CC) and my Edit/Catalog Settings/Metadata options are limited to:
  • Offer suggestions...
  • Include develop settings in metadata for JPEG, TIFF, PNG, and PSD files
  • Automatically write changes into XMP
  • A few things related to geocoding
  • Write date/time changes into proprietary raw files
When I manually do a metadata save, I get a dialog with the following message:
QuoteQuote:
Save metadata to file?

For proprietary camera raw files, metadata will be saved to sidecar files next to the original photo. For all other file formats supported by Lightroom (JPEG, TIFF, PNG, PSD, and DNG), XMP metadata will be written into the original file.
If I export a DNG to DNG, the metadata is written into the xmp section of the new file. There is no option to generate a separate XMP file from DNG that I have been able to find. When I opt for automatic saving, it is always written into a replacement file unless that file is a PEF or some other proprietary RAW format.

Perhaps I am missing something. Can you provide a step-by-step recipe for DNG that results in a sidecar XMP file rather than having it written into the exif?

Short explanation of why this is useful
This discussion is mildly off-topic and may not be clear as to why one would want to do it one way or the other. It is useful to be able to export the catalog information including the full develop settings along with the image when providing a file for outside work by a service bureau, printer, or client. That information can be useful to the recipient as they set up the print job, particularly if they use Adobe products. The case exists where changes are made and sent back for review and/or modification. There can be a fair amount of back and forth. As part of one or more large DNG file, this can be cumbersome and time consuming. The small sidecar XMP files are easily zipped up and sent as e-mail attachments. The original RAW files stay intact and inviolate.


Steve
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, jpeg, look, pef, pentax help, photography, troubleshooting
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
645Z - RAW: Pentax PEF or DNG? uintaangler Pentax Medium Format 12 11-16-2014 03:10 PM
K-3: Anyone solved the RAW PEF or DNG on Mac? audiebrew Pentax K-3 102 10-15-2014 04:26 PM
Pef verses dng? Bigdomino Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 16 03-27-2014 08:35 AM
K3 - RAW support (PEF/DNG) by Apple (Aperture3, OSX) Uncle Pete Pentax K-3 20 03-21-2014 05:03 AM
K3 pef/dng readable in Lightroom 3.6? hoanpham Pentax K-3 5 12-21-2013 12:33 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:35 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top