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10-22-2014, 08:42 PM   #1
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k30 - exposure change from landscape to portrait?

I have a bit of an odd problem.

I bought a K30 used from guy on craigslist. I was just shooting some test shots. I took a picture of my deck railing, and then switched to potrait and the exposure was way off. The setting were manual. When I switched back to landscape the setting were perfect. It doesn't happen all the time, but quite often. It happens with every lens I have tested.

Here is a couple test shots.

and 3 seconds later...


Even though the exif shows f1.9 on the last shot, I am thinking the aperture was actually more closed down. The depth of field seems greater, which is leading me to think it's an aperture issue...

Anybody ever seen anything like this before?

Thanks!!!
Randy

10-22-2014, 08:59 PM   #2
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The exposure settings for both photos were the same. This suggests you have a problem with the aperture actuator on your camera. There is a known issue with the K-30 with this component. The symptom may be intermittent, but is characterized by a full release of the aperture lever resulting in a full stop-down of the lens aperture. If your camera is still under warranty, you should contact Ricoh/Pentax before the warranty expires. Edit: I noticed that you bought your camera used on Craig's List. You may want to contact the seller and ask specifically if they had experienced similar issues.


Steve
10-23-2014, 07:35 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The exposure settings for both photos were the same. This suggests you have a problem with the aperture actuator on your camera. There is a known issue with the K-30 with this component. The symptom may be intermittent, but is characterized by a full release of the aperture lever resulting in a full stop-down of the lens aperture. If your camera is still under warranty, you should contact Ricoh/Pentax before the warranty expires. Edit: I noticed that you bought your camera used on Craig's List. You may want to contact the seller and ask specifically if they had experienced similar issues.


Steve
Does this affect the K50 also? I had never heard of this issue?
10-23-2014, 09:18 AM   #4
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I suspect your K-30 got dropped and something is loose inside. It's a CraigsList thing...

10-23-2014, 09:24 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by randee Quote
I have a bit of an odd problem.

I bought a K30 used from guy on craigslist. I was just shooting some test shots. I took a picture of my deck railing, and then switched to potrait and the exposure was way off. The setting were manual. When I switched back to landscape the setting were perfect. It doesn't happen all the time, but quite often. It happens with every lens I have tested.

Here is a couple test shots.

and 3 seconds later...


Even though the exif shows f1.9 on the last shot, I am thinking the aperture was actually more closed down. The depth of field seems greater, which is leading me to think it's an aperture issue...

Anybody ever seen anything like this before?

Thanks!!!
Randy
Yes, you are right. Even though EXIF info is similar on both pictures, by adjusting levels on the second one, You can appreciate depth of field, which is a lot wider than on the first photo. This means only one thing: The aperture closed down fully (or at least 4-5 stops difference) causing underexposure.

What lens were you using?

I know this issue happens "at random" when lenses having aperture rings, are used with the aperture rings actually and not at the A setting. This is fine as long as the metering is stopped down, like on electronic preview mode. By simply putting camera in manual mode, this does not mean the light reading will be accurate.

(SEE LINKED IMAGES, BOTH ADJUSTED. SEE DEPTH OF FIELD COMPARISSON)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbaz0nxqfapnpb2/COMPO%202%20PICS.jpg?dl=0

This happens with ALL the camera bodies that have the Kaf2 "crippled" lens mount, which are the ones that lack the mechanical coupler for the diaphragm information. All digital bodies have the crippled mount. For more information on this, read this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/200075-pentax-ri...-petition.html

OTOH, if this happened with a newer lens (without aperture ring), or the aperture ring was set on A, then try to reproduce the error with another lens. First you have to pinpoint where (who to blame) for the error; either body or lens.

Let us know your findings.

Last edited by rburgoss; 10-23-2014 at 09:39 AM. Reason: ADDING IMAGE
10-23-2014, 12:34 PM   #6
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To test:
  • If possible, use a lens without an aperture ring. If there is an aperture ring, confirm that the ring is firmly in the A-position (aperture setting shows in LCD display...no F---)
  • Put your camera in M mode
  • Set aperture to wide open using the camera
  • Set shutter to 2 seconds
  • Release shutter while looking into the front of the lens
  • Confirm that the aperture diaphragm remains fully open for the full exposure time


Steve

---------- Post added 10-23-14 at 12:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bradshea Quote
Does this affect the K50 also? I had never heard of this issue?
I cannot recall if there have been K-50 problems of this sort, but there has been a flurry of reported issues with the K-30 in the last few months related to the aperture actuator controller. The threads I took part in all involved cameras that were out of warranty and several had been very lightly used. The owners were very disappointed and upset.

I don't know that this warrants a general caution in regards to K-30 purchase, but it is something that should be considered when evaluating a used K-30.


Steve
10-23-2014, 04:35 PM   #7
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Wow thanks for all the info, I will do some further testing and let you know...
That was taken with the FA 43mm f1.9, I have noticed the behavior on some other lenses I tested, but I will be more clinical and take some notes.
Thanks,
Randy
10-23-2014, 08:54 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by randee Quote
That was taken with the FA 43mm f1.9, I have noticed the behavior on some other lenses I tested, but I will be more clinical and take some notes.
It is unlikely that the issue is with the lenses. You can check aperture functionality with the lens off the camera. Simply flick the aperture actuator lever on the lens with the aperture ring in the "A" position to confirm that the action is snappy with no binding between full open and full closed.

The camera should properly set the aperture if the lens is being detected as an A-contact lens (LCD display does not show F---). If you manually set your FA 43/1.9 to f/1.9 using the e-dial, the lens should not stop down at exposure time. If it does, it is because the coupling lever on the body moved when it should not have. If this happens even once, you have a component fault that will not go away without service.

Steve

10-25-2014, 10:53 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Yes, you are right. Even though EXIF info is similar on both pictures, by adjusting levels on the second one, You can appreciate depth of field, which is a lot wider than on the first photo. This means only one thing: The aperture closed down fully (or at least 4-5 stops difference) causing underexposure.

What lens were you using?

I know this issue happens "at random" when lenses having aperture rings, are used with the aperture rings actually and not at the A setting. This is fine as long as the metering is stopped down, like on electronic preview mode. By simply putting camera in manual mode, this does not mean the light reading will be accurate.

(SEE LINKED IMAGES, BOTH ADJUSTED. SEE DEPTH OF FIELD COMPARISSON)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbaz0nxqfapnpb2/COMPO%202%20PICS.jpg?dl=0

This happens with ALL the camera bodies that have the Kaf2 "crippled" lens mount, which are the ones that lack the mechanical coupler for the diaphragm information. All digital bodies have the crippled mount. For more information on this, read this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/200075-pentax-ri...-petition.html

OTOH, if this happened with a newer lens (without aperture ring), or the aperture ring was set on A, then try to reproduce the error with another lens. First you have to pinpoint where (who to blame) for the error; either body or lens.

Let us know your findings.
Thanks for taking your time. I am now convinced I am having problems with the aperture actuator in my K-30. I have tried several lenses on several cameras. The only time I see the problem is with the K30 on all lenses, but only in vertical conversion.

---------- Post added 10-26-2014 at 02:00 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
To test:
  • If possible, use a lens without an aperture ring. If there is an aperture ring, confirm that the ring is firmly in the A-position (aperture setting shows in LCD display...no F---)
  • Put your camera in M mode
  • Set aperture to wide open using the camera
  • Set shutter to 2 seconds
  • Release shutter while looking into the front of the lens
  • Confirm that the aperture diaphragm remains fully open for the full exposure time


Steve

---------- Post added 10-23-14 at 12:44 PM ----------



I cannot recall if there have been K-50 problems of this sort, but there has been a flurry of reported issues with the K-30 in the last few months related to the aperture actuator controller. The threads I took part in all involved cameras that were out of warranty and several had been very lightly used. The owners were very disappointed and upset.

I don't know that this warrants a general caution in regards to K-30 purchase, but it is something that should be considered when evaluating a used K-30.


Steve
Wow Steve, thanks for the testing parameters. That was very interesting. With it manually set to 1.8, only about 1/2 the time did it have the correct aperture. The other 1/2 of the time, it appeared to be fully stopped down (probably F22 on this 77mm)
10-25-2014, 11:44 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by randee Quote
Wow Steve, thanks for the testing parameters. That was very interesting. With it manually set to 1.8, only about 1/2 the time did it have the correct aperture. The other 1/2 of the time, it appeared to be fully stopped down (probably F22 on this 77mm)
Time to talk to the seller.


Steve
10-25-2014, 12:17 PM   #11
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That's a little bad to discover. Good thing is that you got to pinpoint the problem to the K30 body and are capable to reproduce the error. Bad thing is that I don't believe its something you could fix or correct and the camera is most likely to need qualified service.

It would be interesting to track down those threads mentioned by Steve, to find out what happened, what did Ricoh do, like acknowledge the problem as a camera flaw and fix under warranty or whatever, as well as contacting others that had the same problem and how they got it fixed.
10-25-2014, 12:41 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
It would be interesting to track down those threads mentioned by Steve, to find out what happened, what did Ricoh do, like acknowledge the problem as a camera flaw and fix under warranty or whatever, as well as contacting others that had the same problem and how they got it fixed.
I don't remember if any of the cameras were still under warranty. I do know that the issue was repairable, but the cost was upwards of $250 USD (IIRC) to replace the bad component. I wish I could suggest a good way of tracking down the threads. Most had sort of cryptic titles and were spread over several sections of the site.

I remember one guy whose workaround was to just keep making exposures until one came out close to correct


Steve
10-25-2014, 01:08 PM   #13
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Thanks again for all the input!

I typed a nice response, but when I hit submit I had to log in and lost it.

I was basically going to ask if anyone had any idea on what was wrong. Is some part of the mechanism malfunctioning or is the component failing? Like would have to replace something an actuator? I have converted a couple dSLRs to Infrared and I work on laptops quite often. So I have some confidence when it comes to micro electronic repair and soldering. Where could you get replacement parts for something like this?

As Steve mentioned a $250 repair bill wouldn't obviously be worth it. Now that I just bought a K-3 this was going to be the wife's camera. If i could repair it, I may convert it to infrared at the same time I do the repair.

Thanks for any input!

Last edited by randee; 10-25-2014 at 01:29 PM. Reason: picture didn't work... jpg instead of JPG
10-25-2014, 01:08 PM   #14
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Ok, here are a few related links. It made me sad just going back through some of them:

Two on this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/273789-k...nder-help.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/269421-k...ml#post2936839

Twice apparently on this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/272785-strange-pbm-w-my-k-30-a.html

Multiples on this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/229294-k...e-problem.html

There are more, but I have things to do today Good luck.


Steve

---------- Post added 10-25-14 at 01:13 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by randee Quote
If i could repair it, I may convert it to infrared at the same time I do the repair.
The problem would be getting the parts. Ricoh/Pentax does not sell to other than authorized repair shops. I don't know if the issue is with the stepping motor, the linkage (I remember one photo where the coupler itself was munged), or the board that controls the coupler motor.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-25-2014 at 01:14 PM.
10-25-2014, 01:17 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Ok, here are a few related links. It made me sad just going back through some of them:

Two on this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/273789-k...nder-help.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/269421-k...ml#post2936839

Twice apparently on this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/272785-strange-pbm-w-my-k-30-a.html

Multiples on this thread:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/229294-k...e-problem.html

There are more, but I have things to do today Good luck.


Steve

---------- Post added 10-25-14 at 01:13 PM ----------



The problem would be getting the parts. Ricoh/Pentax does not sell to other than authorized repair shops. I don't know if the issue is with the stepping motor, the linkage (I remember one photo where the coupler itself was munged), or the board that controls the coupler motor.


Steve
Thanks Steve!
I couldn't find any when I looked, probably because the titles are vague like my thread title is.
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