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11-13-2014, 05:02 PM   #1
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mirror always up, shutter stays closed, and camera operates slowly

Hello forum!

ran into a weird problem with the kr i purchased for my little sister. the mirror stays up constantly. the shutter is closed over the sensor permanently, and the camera is very slow to respond to any and all buttons. My sister tells me the camera had intermittent issues related to the mirror or shutter flap starting a month ago and recently nothing in there will move upon turning the power on. I looked at other smirror flop threads but they show pictures of the mirror down so I am not sure if my issue is similar. let me know if you guys and gals have any suggestions as to what may fix this promlen, thanks!

11-13-2014, 05:29 PM   #2
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Does not sound like 'mirror flop' that manifests by the mirror 'flopping' up and down multiple times, usually until you pull the battery.

Without the camera in hand it is just a guess but I think the mirror motor is stuck or the linkage is broken or jammed. Unfortunately I do not think there is a DIY fix, at least one I would feel comfortable recommending since it is not my camera, so you will need to send it in for repair.

Pentax repair is currently at Precision Camera Repair.
11-13-2014, 07:19 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Does not sound like 'mirror flop' that manifests by the mirror 'flopping' up and down multiple times, usually until you pull the battery.
Mirror flop on the K-r is similar to "classical" mirror flop on the K-5, that being that there is one to 4 or 5 flips of the mirror after an exposure. Your sister's K-r problems may be related to mirror flop, but are probably the result of a complete failure of the controller that coordinates mirror/shutter action.

You might attempt a shutter clean maintenance sequence (menu/wrench-4/Sensor Cleaning/Mirror Up). That lifts the mirror and opens the shutter. Turning the camera off after these steps should close the shutter and drop the mirror.


Steve
11-16-2014, 07:49 PM   #4
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hey guys, thanks for the help! i tried the mirror cleaning tip but it didn't free it up, very slight movement. is there a lever of some kind i can push on while trying the mirror up trick that might help? here's pictures of whats going on in there








11-17-2014, 10:35 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by michaelwoodcock Quote
hey guys, thanks for the help! i tried the mirror cleaning tip but it didn't free it up, very slight movement. is there a lever of some kind i can push on while trying the mirror up trick that might help? here's pictures of whats going on in there





My first question would be, "How did the inside of your mirror box get all biffed up?" There are scuff marks on the paint on both sides. I don't have a K-r to compare with, but that little metal springy looking thing sticking up below the aperture actuator does not look like it belongs there.

When there are problems with the movement of mirror, shutter, or aperture actuator there is usually little that can be done outside a service facility. All three are electronically controlled in a strict sequence and failure of any part of the sequence leads to failure of the whole. I am sorry to sound so grim, but repairs of this sort are likely to be over $200 USD.


Steve
11-17-2014, 05:07 PM   #6
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The "spingy" thing is one leg of a spring that is part of gear box. When I do a "B" shutter I can see it stick up there when mirror is up, as your picture shown. I am not sure the actuator is correct or not. It will depends on the aperture setting when the mirror got stuck. Although the gears for actuator and mirror are independent but they do drive by the same motor.

Did you use any "lens adapter" by any chance? An improper placed aperture lever my force the aperture traveler too much and has it bite on the shaft. Also, one spot at return coil spring does look suspicious. It looks like part of gear that is part of traveler.
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11-17-2014, 06:29 PM   #7
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This is the springy thing that I mean.




Steve
11-17-2014, 07:16 PM - 1 Like   #8
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That is correct. That is the first part of the post I point out. It is normal when the mirror is up. I don't have another camera handy to take picture to shown right now.

The picture I attached is the extra piece shown on third photo from michaelwoodcock's post which looks like broke away from the slider. It is not shown on other photos so possible is a loose piece. The teeth are the part engage with a gear wheel that push slider travel on the shaft.


Ok, here is a shot of my K-m which has similar structure. The end of a spring stick out when mirror is up. The slider travel all the way to the right(top).


Last edited by twey; 11-17-2014 at 09:15 PM.
11-17-2014, 09:25 PM   #9
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Sorry, here is the photo (the browser does not like me...
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11-18-2014, 11:34 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My first question would be, "How did the inside of your mirror box get all biffed up?" There are scuff marks on the paint on both sides.
I think I may have an answer to this. Canon shooters have access to a device (in-body light pollution filter) that is used for astrophotography. The filter clips into the mirror box of a Canon camera, but may interfere with the works when used with other brands. It would leave marks similar to those in the photo. Is there any chance your sister's camera had such a filter mounted at some point?


Steve
11-18-2014, 10:07 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
My first question would be, "How did the inside of your mirror box get all biffed up?" There are scuff marks on the paint on both sides. I don't have a K-r to compare with, but that little metal springy looking thing sticking up below the aperture actuator does not look like it belongs there.

When there are problems with the movement of mirror, shutter, or aperture actuator there is usually little that can be done outside a service facility. All three are electronically controlled in a strict sequence and failure of any part of the sequence leads to failure of the whole. I am sorry to sound so grim, but repairs of this sort are likely to be over $200 USD.


Steve
no worries on sounding grim, although preferable for these problems to not happen, it's understandable that they do. Not entirely sure how the paint got biffed up, as far as I know the lens has only been removed from the camera when I removed it to clean dust from the sensor. I'll ask my sister if she's removing it at all.

QuoteOriginally posted by twey Quote
The "spingy" thing is one leg of a spring that is part of gear box. When I do a "B" shutter I can see it stick up there when mirror is up, as your picture shown. I am not sure the actuator is correct or not. It will depends on the aperture setting when the mirror got stuck. Although the gears for actuator and mirror are independent but they do drive by the same motor.

Did you use any "lens adapter" by any chance? An improper placed aperture lever my force the aperture traveler too much and has it bite on the shaft. Also, one spot at return coil spring does look suspicious. It looks like part of gear that is part of traveler.
my sister has only the OEM lens, no adapters and such. It may be possible she tried another students lens and adapter at school, I'll ask.

QuoteOriginally posted by twey Quote
That is correct. That is the first part of the post I point out. It is normal when the mirror is up. I don't have another camera handy to take picture to shown right now.

The picture I attached is the extra piece shown on third photo from michaelwoodcock's post which looks like broke away from the slider. It is not shown on other photos so possible is a loose piece. The teeth are the part engage with a gear wheel that push slider travel on the shaft.


Ok, here is a shot of my K-m which has similar structure. The end of a spring stick out when mirror is up. The slider travel all the way to the right(top).
that spring thing in my sisters camera looks almost worn compared to yours, is this normal to happen over time?
11-18-2014, 10:49 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by michaelwoodcock Quote
Not entirely sure how the paint got biffed up, as far as I know the lens has only been removed from the camera when I removed it to clean dust from the sensor. I'll ask my sister if she's removing it at all.
I was thinking in terms of the previous owners. Perhaps used as below:

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I think I may have an answer to this. Canon shooters have access to a device (in-body light pollution filter) that is used for astrophotography. The filter clips into the mirror box of a Canon camera, but may interfere with the works when used with other brands. It would leave marks similar to those in the photo. Is there any chance your sister's camera had such a filter mounted at some point?
11-19-2014, 06:53 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by michaelwoodcock Quote
no worries on sounding grim, although preferable for these problems to not happen, it's understandable that they do. Not entirely sure how the paint got biffed up, as far as I know the lens has only been removed from the camera when I removed it to clean dust from the sensor. I'll ask my sister if she's removing it at all.


my sister has only the OEM lens, no adapters and such. It may be possible she tried another students lens and adapter at school, I'll ask.



that spring thing in my sisters camera looks almost worn compared to yours, is this normal to happen over time?
I am more curious about this part of coil spring in pictures. For one, they are different in photos you posted which indicate there is something loose in the gear box. Second, it looks like part of linear gear on the slider. I think something is broken. Likely some broken parts got stuck on one of the gear to prevent it from move.

The traveler engage with aperture lever on the lens but not very easy to wear out. My K-m is fairly new as it is acquired lately (as with broken AF but very low shutter count. I fixed AF). It also possible that Pentax "improved" for K-r. K-m is an older model.
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11-23-2014, 10:59 AM   #14
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I got in touch with my little sister and she said:
QuoteQuote:
Darn! Yes, I DID remove the lens at one point! I tried to put an older Canon A1 telephoto lens on, but it just didn't fit right. Hmm, that was maybe three months ago? I'm not sure! But my camera was working fine afterwards. I still don't know what might have caused the shutter to stop! Thanks for your help though, Mike!! Is it a good idea to repair? What do you think would be best?
11-24-2014, 12:58 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by michaelwoodcock Quote
I got in touch with my little sister and she said:
It may work for a while when damage is done util the loose part got stuck somewhere in the gear box. Looks like send for repair is the only option now.
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