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11-14-2014, 07:49 AM   #1
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New lens doesn't show up in Lightroom

Hello fellow Pentaxians!

I just received my recently bought Sigma EX 17-50 DG HSM. After taking a few shots with it I imported the DNG-files to Lightroom CC. In my Lightroom I have set up so I can see which FL was used and what lens was used to capture it. However, this lens only gives information about the used FL. I find this quite odd because it's a brand new lens. I have ruled out that it is Lightroom's fault because I looked up the EXIF for the picture and there was no information about the lens. Also, I made sure that it wasn't the DNG-file so I took a JPEG also, the same problem...

I was wondering if somebody has the same issue or a similar one. I have a K-5 if that should help solving the problem. It really isn't such a big problem but would like to know if somebody has had the same issue with this lens or any other lens.

Thanks!

11-14-2014, 08:09 AM   #2
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Sigma lenses often use generic information or "borrow" the code of Pentax lenses.
The lens name is not a text field, rather a short code that is then compared to a database in order to display a full name complete with aperture range.
There's a way to correct that, but I personally list all the equipment used (including lenses, flash position, direction and settings) in the Caption field.

Read here for further information:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/32-digital-processing-software-printing/2...-metadata.html
11-14-2014, 08:10 AM   #3
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Interesting, I have the very same problem with the new DA 70mm f2.4 with the red ring.
11-14-2014, 08:25 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by fwbigd Quote
Interesting, I have the very same problem with the new DA 70mm f2.4 with the red ring.
That's strange... it's a Pentax lens... maybe you're using an older version of LR?
It should have made sense to use the same code both for the "old" DA LTD and the "new" HD DA LTD...

Anyway in Lightroom you just associate a given ID with a certain correction and you're done.
An issue can only occur, as was stated in the thread I linked, when you have more than one lens with the same "unknown" or "wrong" lens id.

11-14-2014, 08:37 AM   #5
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Well, they they presumably would have different rendering due the new coatings and blade shape, so a different code would make sense for profile corrections.

QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
That's strange... it's a Pentax lens... maybe you're using an older version of LR?
It should have made sense to use the same code both for the "old" DA LTD and the "new" HD DA LTD...

Anyway in Lightroom you just associate a given ID with a certain correction and you're done.
An issue can only occur, as was stated in the thread I linked, when you have more than one lens with the same "unknown" or "wrong" lens id.
11-14-2014, 08:58 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Well, they they presumably would have different rendering due the new coatings and blade shape, so a different code would make sense for profile corrections.
Mmmh... true that...
I believe the influence of coatings would be minimal, and mainly concern CA, not distortion... maybe vignetting (?), but then I bet there's more sample-to-sample variation than between HD and non-HD...
11-14-2014, 09:02 AM   #7
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Blame Lightroom.

For the OP...the lens information is there. It is in the makernotes portion of the exif. ExifTool tags the field as LensType and the value should be either "8 21" or "8 25" depending on which version on the Sigma 17-50 you have. Other exif utilities may label the field differently, but the data are there. It would be nice if the Pentax firmware would write something to the standard exif "lens model" field, but the model name is often ambiguous so that may be why it is left empty.

Lightroom 5.6 does support that lens for Pentax (there are Pentax-specific lens profile files for both versions), but does not auto-detect on import. I have the same problem with the Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 (C). Focal length and other lens related info are parsed, but not the lenstype. Why it does not work is a mystery to me.

If you want to apply the lens profile for your Sigma 17-50, you can do so manually in the Develop module. Choose Sigma and Lightroom will automagically choose the 17-50 for you. Go figure.


Steve

---------- Post added 11-14-14 at 08:29 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by fwbigd Quote
Interesting, I have the very same problem with the new DA 70mm f2.4 with the red ring.
The new HD DA 70/2.4 Limited has a different code than the older model and is not yet supported by Lightroom.


Steve

---------- Post added 11-14-14 at 08:43 AM ----------

There is a workaround that will at least provide a lens model for display purposes. If you have scripting skills and use ExifTools, you can write the value from ExifTools lens name lookup table into the standard exif lensmodel field. ExifToolsGUI has a built-in menu function that does the same thing. There are also a number of LR plugins that expose ExifTool functionality through LR.

Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-14-2014 at 10:07 AM.
11-14-2014, 10:15 PM   #8
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Pentax cameras won't write the names of 3rd party lenses in the EXIF. I have had three Sigma lenses and all of them have to be manually selected from the profile list. All Pentax lenses FA and newer will show up, though (but not F series). I think it has something to do with the MTF line, which nothing older than FA lenses nor 3rd party lenses support.

My recommendation is to make a preset with the profile information that you can just load up in Lightroom. You'll just have to recognize the lens by the focal length.

11-14-2014, 11:09 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
Pentax cameras won't write the names of 3rd party lenses in the EXIF.
Ummm...yes, they do, sort of, but not all software is able to do the parsing.* The lens supplies a lens code through the data pin and this code is included in the makernotes section of the exif. Why LR fails to parse the code and work with it is anybody's guess. The data for the OP's lens is in the exif, the lens profile ships with the most recent version of LR, and the profile xml file has the correct mapping for the supplied code. Still LR acts dumb.

I have been doing a semi-automated rewrite of the exif using ExifToolGUI and the lens code from the makernotes section since this last May for my Sigma 17-70 (C). Its code in the exif is "8 30" and ExifToolGUI writes a textual description of the lens from the ExifTool lookup table to the exif LensModel field. This allows a convenience display of lens in LR, but does not count as lens metadata for filtering since LR did not recognize the lens and write the value into the catalog XMP on import (lens ID "8 30" is written to the XMP...go figure).


Steve

* ExifTool, for example, has no problem

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-15-2014 at 12:32 AM.
11-15-2014, 07:14 AM   #10
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Update your software, LR as well as Camera raw. And update your camera firmware if you havent yet. If this won't help, its probably the lens. Not surprising with third party lenses. There are some threads about these exif lens id problems with sigma and tamron lenses. But i dont have experience with those lenses specifically. Maybe check the user reviews
11-15-2014, 09:34 AM   #11
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It's usully just Sigma, since everything is reverse engineered so they can avoid licensing fees. The situation is much worse for Canon EF and Sony Alpha/Minolta Maxxum lenses, where lenses simply stop working when updates to the lens communications protocol are made.

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Ummm...yes, they do, sort of, but not all software is able to do the parsing.* The lens supplies a lens code through the data pin and this code is included in the makernotes section of the exif. Why LR fails to parse the code and work with it is anybody's guess. The data for the OP's lens is in the exif, the lens profile ships with the most recent version of LR, and the profile xml file has the correct mapping for the supplied code. Still LR acts dumb.

I have been doing a semi-automated rewrite of the exif using ExifToolGUI and the lens code from the makernotes section since this last May for my Sigma 17-70 (C). Its code in the exif is "8 30" and ExifToolGUI writes a textual description of the lens from the ExifTool lookup table to the exif LensModel field. This allows a convenience display of lens in LR, but does not count as lens metadata for filtering since LR did not recognize the lens and write the value into the catalog XMP on import (lens ID "8 30" is written to the XMP...go figure).


Steve

* ExifTool, for example, has no problem
11-15-2014, 12:13 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
It's usully just Sigma, since everything is reverse engineered so they can avoid licensing fees.
I think you are correct regarding the problem being limited to Sigma, but my research indicates that the lens code:
  • Is transmitted to the camera (at least it is on my K-3 and was for my K10D)
  • Is included in the exif
  • Uniquely identifies the Sigma lens mounted*
  • Is corrected detected by Lightroom and written into the XMP for the catalog and any exported images
  • Is not automatically used by Lightroom**
  • Is correctly detected by other software***
The same problem currently exists for at least one Canon lens (Canon EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM), but Adobe promises a fix in the next version of Lightroom.


Steve

* This is true for recent Sigma lenses, but not true for several older products. My Sigma 50/2.8 EX DG Macro, for example, uses the same code as the Pentax-F 50/2.8 Macro.

** That a particular lens is not properly processed on import is fairly obvious. The interesting thing is that if the "Enable Profiles Correction" box is checked and the "Make" selected as Sigma, Lightroom will automatically fill the other selections for the correct lens. If you then assign that profile as "default", Lightroom will properly detect the lens and apply correction, but only when the check-box is enabled.

*** ExifTool has no problem parsing the lens code and will display the proper lens name from its lookup table. For a list of supported codes see: Pentax Tags

---------- Post added 11-15-14 at 11:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I think you are correct regarding the problem being limited to Sigma
I just took a look at the ExifTool list and there is confusion with some Tokina, Tamron, and Cosina lenses as well.

Steve
12-18-2014, 03:53 PM   #13
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I think it would be good if all the HD DA Limiteds had their own Lightroom Lens profiles by now....... I mean manually selecting the equivalent SMC ones seems to work OK - but it is just a bit of a bore.

John
12-18-2014, 04:19 PM   #14
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Pentax is just too small of a market for Adobe to be in any sort of rush to provide lens profiles.

I've figured out how to have Lightroom autodetect 3rd party lenses and apply their profiles on import on more than one occasion but it seems to get reset every so often (maybe when there is a LR update?) so I've pretty much given up and just manually select the lens from the list when I want to use the profile.
12-19-2014, 09:33 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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With LR, once you select Sigma or whatever and get the right lens profile, you can make that lens detect as a default in the LENS CORRECTIONS / PROFILE Tab. You just click the option to Save the selection as the Profile Default. Then you don't need to worry about manually selecting the lens every time or saving a preset.
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