Flash pictures terrible

audiobomber · 11-25-2014, 07:32 AM

Wombat, what model of flash bracket is that? I have a bracket which is great for a DSLR, but a bit large for my a6000.

stevebrot · 11-25-2014, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I had not heard of that, but then I've never used Green mode.

The *ist DS doesn't have a "green" position on the mode dial. Instead one half of the dial is used for Auto Pict and various scene modes and "no flash". The other half has P, Av, Tv, M, and B.

Originally posted by wombat2go

The histograms of both photos ( close ups of a stainless coffee pot) were almost the same.

That is interesting. Thanks for doing the comparison.

I don't have a *ist DS to play with and was going from the description from the manual. The full-power behavior on manual raise with in Auto Pict mode is explicitly stated while the P-TTL on auto-raise was only implied. I found the manual to be very confusing regarding flash usage. Thanks for your contributions.

Steve

wombat2go · 11-25-2014, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I found the manual to be very confusing regarding flash usage.

Yes. The original ist-ds manual here is moth eaten and dog eared on the pages associated with flash.

I made some extra notes, and I still find some more tricks occasionally.
Thse were taken with the ist ds and the AF500FTZ in TTL mode with the head rotated.

Astronomersmith · 11-25-2014, 09:51 AM

That's so cool. Thanks for the notebook tips! I feel like I'm seeing some ancient scrolls from the distant past....from back in the days when CCD was king and not CMOS! <haha>
Seriously, I'm going to save this thread and maybe do some experimenting when I get some time off from work during the Holidays over the next month or so.
Thank you, and thank everybody that has helped - even if some of it was a little overwhelming and over my head. It just came at me kind of fast and I've not had time to study and let it sink in. But it will.

Scott

twey · 11-25-2014, 05:12 PM

Same for a K-m. The manually popped flash in "green mode" (auto pict) changed shutter speed to 1/45 and aperture remains same. This is the same behavior as with auto-pop.

I did have one occasion that auto-pop did not change shutter speed and became over exposure, but does change if I popped it manually. It stay with that behavior even after few camera off/on cycle. It went away after I changed to force flash from menu and back to auto flash. I think it was a firmware problem.

wombat2go · 11-25-2014, 06:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by audiobomber

Wombat, what model of flash bracket is that?

It is an LPL brand, made of pressed steel with molded plastic grip, purchased about 1982

There are a few used ones out there:
Vintage LPL Flash Handle Camera Grip Bracket Professional Good Condition ::. www.DiaplousFoto.com

I modified mine to remove the cold shoe and replace by a 1/4 hole so I can mount hot shoes on it to adapt the pc cable to the Takumar 6x7 and the Pentax off-camera-shoe adaptors + cables ( costly) for the Pentax DSLRS and flashes..

audiobomber · 11-25-2014, 07:37 PM

Thanks Wombat, I just bought one.

Brooke Meyer · 11-25-2014, 08:12 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Astronomersmith

Any suggestions or quick, easy fixes? Any reference or website or something that could help me take better flash photography? Scott

No easy fixes, you have to invest some time on learning. Here is a good, free website that explains: http://neilvn.com/tangents/tutorial-bounce-flash-photography/

A $50 Yongnou 560 flash and half a $1 piece of black foam can do quite a lot. Indoor events, the "black foamy thing" is the only way I shoot anymore.

Skip the brackets, get a hot shoe flash and a piece of foam fastened with a girls hairband. And learn how flash exposure works. It's not difficult.

wombat2go · 11-25-2014, 09:44 PM

Brooke, That is a beautifully exposed photo.
I see it is with a K-5 at ISO3200 and at f/11

The O/P (and me) use ist ds which in my experience is quite OK up to ISO400 and a bit ragged at ISO800.
So the ist ds will need a fair bit more direct illumination from the flash in a photo like that. ??

Brooke Meyer · 11-25-2014, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by wombat2go

Brooke, That is a beautifully exposed photo. I see it is with a K-5 at ISO3200 and at f/11. The O/P (and me) use ist ds which in my experience is quite OK up to ISO400 and a bit ragged at ISO800. So the ist ds will need a fair bit more direct illumination from the flash in a photo like that. ??

Went to K5's in 2011 for low light capability so I don't really think about it. Shooting dance in theater, I start at ISO 3200.

My example was just something I knew was done with a flagged, bounced flash. I probably went to f11 for ambient, with winter sun pouring in, big dynamic range. Doesn't really matter, flash exposures are always 2 exposures, ambient & flash so controlling the flash with bounce & direction makes the difference. In my example, I had a high white ceiling, all I wanted was fill without direct flash on the violinist.

Here's an everyday example. Wife got birthday flowers and wanted photo to e-mail daughter. Back lit on dining room table, 8 ft white ceiling, Yongnou 560 at 1/4 or 1/2 power, black foamy thing around flash, light bounced off ceiling. f8, 1/125 for ambient and ISO 400. I could've dragged the shutter and boosted flash power and gone to ISO 200 easy or gone to 5.6 or both and gone to ISO 100. .

wombat2go · 11-26-2014, 08:14 AM

Hey Brooke, I watched that video and tried the Foamy Thing ( actually just using black craft paper till I get some foam)

It is a winner, the photo here is more certainly evenly exposed than than the ones in my post #27 above.

It does take some cast from the ceiling color here, and using the ist-ds at iso 200 with the SMC Pentax-M 1:3.5 28mm at f/5.6, the AF500FTZ had to be at full power in manual.
(The dull morning light in the room is only EV4 or so)

The AF500FTZ has the swivel necessary to use this method without a flash bracket (The AF 360FGZ does not have a swivel)
The AF500FTZ is compatible with the ist ds but it only has TTL mode so it is not very usable on the later Pentax dslrs.

Brooke Meyer · 11-26-2014, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by wombat2go

Hey Brooke, I watched that video and tried the Foamy Thing ( actually just using black craft paper till I get some foam). It is a winner, the photo here is more certainly evenly exposed than than the ones in my post #27 above.

It does take some cast from the ceiling color here, and using the ist-ds at iso 200 with the SMC Pentax-M 1:3.5 28mm at f/5.6, the AF500FTZ had to be at full power in manual.
(The dull morning light in the room is only EV4 or so)

The AF500FTZ has the swivel necessary to use this method without a flash bracket (The AF 360FGZ does not have a swivel)
The AF500FTZ is compatible with the ist ds but it only has TTL mode so it is not very usable on the later Pentax dslrs.

The foam is $1 at Michael's, make you two pieces. All I've ever shot are DNGs so color cast is pretty easy to fix, my attempt below..

I started out with a pair of Pentax 540's, 1 new and i used. Just sent both to KEH for repair. One fixed for free and one not worth fixing. Used 540's at KEH.com are about $218, includes their std 6 month warranty.

A good and cheap alternative is $50 to $70 for Yongnou 560, 560 II or 560 III. Tilt, swivel, zoom, power adjust, very good recharge time and throw away cheap. I have 3, use on tripod as light stand for outdoor sessions, bare or through an umbrella. The product shot is bare flash, Santa ( which I'll shoot again on Dec 6th) is through an umbrella. Wireless Triggers are $20 to $30.

GibbyTheMole · 11-26-2014, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by cali92rs

Bounce flash...bounce flash...bounce flash
It's the easiest way to soften the light and make your pictures look natural (as well as allow you to shoot at a much lower ISO).
But as venom mentioned above, that requires you to buy an external flash.

Yep... As a rule, direct flash looks lousy because it's a small light source. As a rule, the bigger the light source, the better your photo will look. Bouncing the flash from the ceiling or wall makes the light source bigger, which is the key to eliminating harsh shadows. I'd buy an external bounce/swivel flash.

LensBeginner · 11-26-2014, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Brooke Meyer

No easy fixes, you have to invest some time on learning. Here is a good, free website that explains: http://neilvn.com/tangents/tutorial-bounce-flash-photography/

A $50 Yongnou 560 flash and half a $1 piece of black foam can do quite a lot. Indoor events, the "black foamy thing" is the only way I shoot anymore.

Skip the brackets, get a hot shoe flash and a piece of foam fastened with a girls hairband. And learn how flash exposure works. It's not difficult.

That's a nice tip, and a terrific picture with an interesting angle... were you on a chair or something?

audiobomber · 11-26-2014, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by GibbyTheMole

Yep... As a rule, direct flash looks lousy because it's a small light source.

I've often heard that, but it does not account for the positive benefits of a diffuser and/or flash bracket. Diffused flash looks more natural than bare flash. A flash bracket hides ugly shadows behind the subject and eliminates red-eye.

11-25-2014, 11:40 PM	#40
Brooke Meyer Guest	Originally posted by wombat2go Brooke, That is a beautifully exposed photo. I see it is with a K-5 at ISO3200 and at f/11. The O/P (and me) use ist ds which in my experience is quite OK up to ISO400 and a bit ragged at ISO800. So the ist ds will need a fair bit more direct illumination from the flash in a photo like that. ?? Went to K5's in 2011 for low light capability so I don't really think about it. Shooting dance in theater, I start at ISO 3200. My example was just something I knew was done with a flagged, bounced flash. I probably went to f11 for ambient, with winter sun pouring in, big dynamic range. Doesn't really matter, flash exposures are always 2 exposures, ambient & flash so controlling the flash with bounce & direction makes the difference. In my example, I had a high white ceiling, all I wanted was fill without direct flash on the violinist. Here's an everyday example. Wife got birthday flowers and wanted photo to e-mail daughter. Back lit on dining room table, 8 ft white ceiling, Yongnou 560 at 1/4 or 1/2 power, black foamy thing around flash, light bounced off ceiling. f8, 1/125 for ambient and ISO 400. I could've dragged the shutter and boosted flash power and gone to ISO 200 easy or gone to 5.6 or both and gone to ISO 100. . Last edited by Brooke Meyer; 11-25-2014 at 11:46 PM.

11-26-2014, 08:46 AM	#42
Brooke Meyer Guest	Originally posted by wombat2go Hey Brooke, I watched that video and tried the Foamy Thing ( actually just using black craft paper till I get some foam). It is a winner, the photo here is more certainly evenly exposed than than the ones in my post #27 above. It does take some cast from the ceiling color here, and using the ist-ds at iso 200 with the SMC Pentax-M 1:3.5 28mm at f/5.6, the AF500FTZ had to be at full power in manual. (The dull morning light in the room is only EV4 or so) The AF500FTZ has the swivel necessary to use this method without a flash bracket (The AF 360FGZ does not have a swivel) The AF500FTZ is compatible with the ist ds but it only has TTL mode so it is not very usable on the later Pentax dslrs. The foam is $1 at Michael's, make you two pieces. All I've ever shot are DNGs so color cast is pretty easy to fix, my attempt below.. I started out with a pair of Pentax 540's, 1 new and i used. Just sent both to KEH for repair. One fixed for free and one not worth fixing. Used 540's at KEH.com are about $218, includes their std 6 month warranty. A good and cheap alternative is $50 to $70 for Yongnou 560, 560 II or 560 III. Tilt, swivel, zoom, power adjust, very good recharge time and throw away cheap. I have 3, use on tripod as light stand for outdoor sessions, bare or through an umbrella. The product shot is bare flash, Santa ( which I'll shoot again on Dec 6th) is through an umbrella. Wireless Triggers are $20 to $30. Last edited by Brooke Meyer; 12-03-2014 at 09:08 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Abstract IR - Terrible gradient blending in the sky	willskywalker93	Photo Critique	17	10-10-2014 09:39 AM
Pentax marketing is terrible.	Mr_Canuck	Photographic Industry and Professionals	10	06-10-2013 06:44 PM
Terrible noise!	pugsypoogirl	Pentax K-5 & K-5 II	31	02-20-2013 04:06 PM
Nature Even in terrible light...	gjtoth	Photo Critique	6	02-17-2013 10:27 PM
How do I fix these terrible pictures?	robdrobd	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	28	01-07-2011 03:21 PM

11-25-2014, 07:32 AM	#31
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Wombat, what model of flash bracket is that? I have a bracket which is great for a DSLR, but a bit large for my a6000.

11-25-2014, 07:52 AM	#32
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by audiobomber I had not heard of that, but then I've never used Green mode. The ist DS doesn't have a "green" position on the mode dial. Instead one half of the dial is used for Auto Pict and various scene modes and "no flash". The other half has P, Av, Tv, M, and B. Originally posted by wombat2go The histograms of both photos ( close ups of a stainless coffee pot) were almost the same. That is interesting. Thanks for doing the comparison. I don't have a ist DS to play with and was going from the description from the manual. The full-power behavior on manual raise with in Auto Pict mode is explicitly stated while the P-TTL on auto-raise was only implied. I found the manual to be very confusing regarding flash usage. Thanks for your contributions. Steve

11-25-2014, 09:51 AM	#34
Astronomersmith Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 58 Original Poster	That's so cool. Thanks for the notebook tips! I feel like I'm seeing some ancient scrolls from the distant past....from back in the days when CCD was king and not CMOS! <haha> Seriously, I'm going to save this thread and maybe do some experimenting when I get some time off from work during the Holidays over the next month or so. Thank you, and thank everybody that has helped - even if some of it was a little overwhelming and over my head. It just came at me kind of fast and I've not had time to study and let it sink in. But it will. Scott

11-25-2014, 05:12 PM	#35
twey Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 29	Same for a K-m. The manually popped flash in "green mode" (auto pict) changed shutter speed to 1/45 and aperture remains same. This is the same behavior as with auto-pop. I did have one occasion that auto-pop did not change shutter speed and became over exposure, but does change if I popped it manually. It stay with that behavior even after few camera off/on cycle. It went away after I changed to force flash from menu and back to auto flash. I think it was a firmware problem.

11-25-2014, 06:00 PM - 1 Like	#36
wombat2go Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by audiobomber Wombat, what model of flash bracket is that? It is an LPL brand, made of pressed steel with molded plastic grip, purchased about 1982 There are a few used ones out there: Vintage LPL Flash Handle Camera Grip Bracket Professional Good Condition ::. www.DiaplousFoto.com I modified mine to remove the cold shoe and replace by a 1/4 hole so I can mount hot shoes on it to adapt the pc cable to the Takumar 6x7 and the Pentax off-camera-shoe adaptors + cables ( costly) for the Pentax DSLRS and flashes..

11-25-2014, 07:37 PM	#37
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Thanks Wombat, I just bought one.

11-25-2014, 08:12 PM - 1 Like	#38
Brooke Meyer Guest	Originally posted by Astronomersmith Any suggestions or quick, easy fixes? Any reference or website or something that could help me take better flash photography? Scott No easy fixes, you have to invest some time on learning. Here is a good, free website that explains: http://neilvn.com/tangents/tutorial-bounce-flash-photography/ A $50 Yongnou 560 flash and half a $1 piece of black foam can do quite a lot. Indoor events, the "black foamy thing" is the only way I shoot anymore. Skip the brackets, get a hot shoe flash and a piece of foam fastened with a girls hairband. And learn how flash exposure works. It's not difficult.

11-25-2014, 09:44 PM	#39
wombat2go Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Brooke, That is a beautifully exposed photo. I see it is with a K-5 at ISO3200 and at f/11 The O/P (and me) use ist ds which in my experience is quite OK up to ISO400 and a bit ragged at ISO800. So the ist ds will need a fair bit more direct illumination from the flash in a photo like that. ??

11-26-2014, 09:42 AM	#43
GibbyTheMole Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Iowa Photos: Albums Posts: 2,275	Originally posted by cali92rs Bounce flash...bounce flash...bounce flash It's the easiest way to soften the light and make your pictures look natural (as well as allow you to shoot at a much lower ISO). But as venom mentioned above, that requires you to buy an external flash. Yep... As a rule, direct flash looks lousy because it's a small light source. As a rule, the bigger the light source, the better your photo will look. Bouncing the flash from the ceiling or wall makes the light source bigger, which is the key to eliminating harsh shadows. I'd buy an external bounce/swivel flash.

11-26-2014, 09:48 AM	#44
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by Brooke Meyer No easy fixes, you have to invest some time on learning. Here is a good, free website that explains: http://neilvn.com/tangents/tutorial-bounce-flash-photography/ A $50 Yongnou 560 flash and half a $1 piece of black foam can do quite a lot. Indoor events, the "black foamy thing" is the only way I shoot anymore. Skip the brackets, get a hot shoe flash and a piece of foam fastened with a girls hairband. And learn how flash exposure works. It's not difficult. That's a nice tip, and a terrific picture with an interesting angle... were you on a chair or something?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-26-2014, 09:56 AM	#45
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by GibbyTheMole Yep... As a rule, direct flash looks lousy because it's a small light source. I've often heard that, but it does not account for the positive benefits of a diffuser and/or flash bracket. Diffused flash looks more natural than bare flash. A flash bracket hides ugly shadows behind the subject and eliminates red-eye.