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12-11-2014, 08:37 PM   #31
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Is there much of an optical difference between the screw mount, M, and A versions of the 100mm f/4 macro?

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:37 PM ----------

Also, what does "dental" mean when used to refer to macro lenses?

12-11-2014, 08:43 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Outis Quote
Also, what does "dental" mean when used to refer to macro lenses?
The were equipment packages meant for use in Dental and Medical offices. They are the same lenses but often with markings to make it easier for common focusing and lighting situations like photos of the back of the mouth, full face shots and the like.

The difference between screwmount, M and A. Aside from having to use a mount adapter for the screwmount lens has to deal with the amount of automation.

Screwmount lenses you have to use stop-down metering and manually stop-down the lens and use a mount adapter.

The K-mount M series lenses you have to shoot in manual mode and use stop-down meter however the camera body will stop-down the lens for you.

The A series lenses you can use all exposure modes of the camera including manual. You just have to manually focus the lenses.

Last edited by Not a Number; 12-11-2014 at 08:50 PM.
12-11-2014, 09:23 PM   #33

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Geesh, I think the basic question here is $300 for a camera system to solve circuit board design problems is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of being in that business. It must not have a strong business case and your getting it on a petty cash budget or something?
12-11-2014, 11:02 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote almost read my mind! I was just debating between a K10D or an *istD. I think the *istD can do TTL metering with flash, but I don't know if that works with the non-A lenses or not.
Get an *istD, any MSeries macro, some extension tubes and any PC with the *IstD software, which allows tethering.

Also get a right angle viewfinder, this may take a little modification depending on the age of what you pick up, and then get an old enlarger, with a sloping forward column, and replace the enlarger head with I the camera.

Here is the idea. The enlarger stand makes a great copy stand for the camera, the *IstD allows thethering so once , focused trip the camera with the PC link and the image is on the PC screen instantly.

The TTL flash in the *IstD works with any lens in the camera, M42, K mount without contacts etc.

Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 12-11-2014 at 11:50 PM.
12-12-2014, 12:01 AM   #35
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Would this do? Cheap six year old Kodak point and shoot (100% crop) not even a real macro mode.
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12-12-2014, 01:36 AM   #36
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Many Point and Shoot and bridge cameras give excellent macro results and are a viable option given the budget constraints.
12-12-2014, 04:09 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Outis Quote
Oh, that's really cool. I had no idea a copipod was a thing, but now that I've seen them, I can imagine all sorts of things one would be useful for.

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:12 PM ----------

This is a great example of the angle and the level of detail that he'd need. If he could take a picture like that, that would be great. He can move the boards to a bench and set up a small amount of lighting if need be. There are also decently bright flourescent lights mounted above the benches.

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:15 PM ----------

Tethering is probably more trouble than it's worth; the company he works for is kind of anal about what software they install on their computers. A camera with a built-in display would be much better.

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:17 PM ----------

Do you have a source for the Sigma 28-80 macro for less than $40? The only used places I'm familiar with are KEH and the used departments at Adorama and B&H. I don't think he can just buy a lens off of Ebay...

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:18 PM ----------

Ah, whoops, forget what I said earlier!

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:19 PM ----------

Definitely yes to a camera with liveview!

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:21 PM ----------

So, your picture is basically the same level of detail he can get with his point-and-shoot. What would really be nice would be a detail shot of the chip that says SAMSUNG, but at an angle, so he could see whether the pins were touching the solder.

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:23 PM ----------

That close-up image is a good example of the kind of detail he's looking for-- he'd just want it to be at an angle.[COLOR="Silver"

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:24 PM ----------

[/COLOR]Anyway, thank you all SO MUCH for going to all this trouble on our behalf! We just wish we had been better able to articulate what he was going for at the very beginning.

---------- Post added 12-11-14 at 10:26 PM ----------

Thanks! I think we can safely say that reverse-mounting a lens is more trouble than he'd want to go to.
The easiest source for the Pentax and Sigma gear is KEH. They do offer a warranty and are very respected.

Here is the lens I mentioned:[]=Zoom+Lenses%...a&fl[]=28-80mm
12-12-2014, 06:43 AM   #38
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For the people who suggested point-and-shoots-- he's currently using a point and shoot and not getting good enough results, hence the desire for a DSLR and macro lens. The major problems are that the detail/enlargement/resolution isn't good enough, and he can't force the camera to focus on the part of the board that it needs to.

12-12-2014, 06:54 AM   #39
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I'd probably go with a used Tamron 70-300 macro, used thy can be and for $100 and whatever camera body you can get for what's left. For circuit boards, long lenses are a wonderful thing. They "flatten" things. A used K-01 to go with it and you'd be all set.
12-12-2014, 07:37 AM   #40
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Search "Mantis Elite Cam" for an industrial system for pcb quality checks. (no affiliation)
About 10 times the budget.
If customers do factory tours, it is beneficial to have recognized pro-grade QA equipment.

One place I worked at, although only doing small volume military products, had the printed circuit board automated test /QA area
in a special room, show-casing the QA . The workers in there even had to wear white coats!

The R&D engineers were generally not allowed in there and we were forbidden to hand solder on any production boards,
such mods/rework had to be done by the trained operators in anti-static zones
12-12-2014, 07:37 AM   #41
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I'd say a K-01 would be the perfect body for this.

The LCD is much, much better for precise manual focus than a normal viewfinder. You can see the focus point moving back and forth within a scene as you turn the ring on the lens.

For a lens, either look at the M 50mm or 100mm f4 macro, or if budget allows try one of the current macro lenses.
12-12-2014, 08:16 PM   #42
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I'd go with micro four thirds for lens choices. A used epl1 is under $100 (~90 at KEH usually). The sensor sucks for low light (ISO 1600 in emergencies only really), and there's little headroom in the RAW for highlights and shadows, but that should not matter.

For any serious macro, you need a flash. A $40 yongyuo is quite capable, and eliminates the need for a more expensive sensor. Live view focusing is dead on accurate. Weak AA filter helps here too.

There are several options for lenses. How much magnification do you really need?

A regular cheap 50mm f4 macro (Canon FD, Nikon F, m42, Pentax K, Olympus OM, Konica etc.) Would be good enough to see most circuits.

If you want more magnification, a bellows, is a cheap way to get more magnification. Enlarger lenses are also very very good for their price.

E.g. this is $25 shipped.
It will deliver excellent results on an m39 bellows. This one just happens to be m39.

Get an m42 bellows (can be found cheap) and an m42-m39 ring.
I got several bellows for $20 and under. Just have to look around.
M42-m39 adapter is cheap.

Epl1 (100) + lens(25) + flash (40) + bellows/adapter(40 - assuming they run high)
You're under $200

The zoomed in component was with the Enlarger. The other was with a Vivitar 100mm macro, which does 1:1 without adapters). Note, enlarger lenses don't have a focusing helicoid. You focus moving the lens towards the camera or away from it on the bellows. Rather, you end up setting the magnification the position gives you, and focus moving the full camera in practice. I don't usually use a tripod. No need with flash, though your budget allows for it.
12-12-2014, 10:41 PM   #43
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I did a little work like that, for use in lectures, not diagnosis. I used K100DS + STak 50/4 macro + bellows (because I had them from long ago). With that I could get as close as full frame image of 1/8W axial leaded resistor.

The challenge was getting the light in without shadow that would obscure the image. I was trying for aesthetics as well as the purely technical - your application probably would forgive vignetting so long as it was outside the critical region of the frame.

The only way you will make budget is secondhand market.

Would you be willing and permitted to use your own equipment to make the point for long enough to justify the value of increasing the budget a bit?
12-12-2014, 10:49 PM   #44
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Your partner may need to think outside the box a little bit. It sounds like he's after high magnification and high definition more so than some of the sample images in this thread are offering.

If I were in his situation and under such a tight budget constraint, I'd try to shoot an image through a bench mounted magnifying glass first. I've had to improvise like this before and have had some good results.

If nothing else, it would give him the ability to demonstrate the level of magnification he required to others seeking to assist him.
12-15-2014, 01:31 AM   #45
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If he could take a picture like that, that would be great. He can move the boards to a bench and set up a small amount of lighting if need be Coque galaxy A3 etui samsung galaxy A3


Last edited by vivivona; 12-31-2014 at 02:39 AM.

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