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02-03-2015, 11:41 AM - 1 Like   #46
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OP... I venture to say there is nothing mechanically wrong with your K3. The church photo is a cluster F, I would have ventured into the possibility of something being wrong with your K3 even if you did fudge what you stated your settings were. (I've looked at the exifs on all of them and have my own opinion on your choice of exposure settings). However your patio photos tell a different story and that is there isn't a problem with the camera. The Nikon Is an excellent point and shoot with a great fixed lens and a few settings to control the output. The Pentax is a dslr and as with any dslr it is only as good as the person operating it has it set up, the exposure settings they use and the lenses they use, plain and simple. Sharpness is the nature of most prime fixed lenses vs consumer zooms. A good photographer can use a decent consumer grade lens and still get very good useable and correctable photos. That is what both of your wide angle zoom lenses are and they are both very capable of producing better photos on your K3 then what you have taken. Now if you don't want to take the time to learn your new camera and how to get the best out of it and the lenses you choose then I would suggest getting rid of it.

If your happy with the Nikon by all means keep it and shoot away but I suggest your not coming on here further telling experienced dslr users who know that camera stating it doesn't take equally as good if not better photos. You sir are barking up the wrong tree and will find having a long row to hoe in the process. Now if you want to take another path of admitting the possibility of your lack of experience with it and want to learn then you will find this forum and it's members more than willing to help you.


Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 02-03-2015 at 11:53 AM.
02-03-2015, 11:44 AM   #47
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SO to summarize.....

It's harder to get a good image with a K-3 than it is with a 16 MP APS_c camera.... you might want to try a tripod. Similar differences have been noted with Nikon D810s and lower res FF cameras.
Your first K-3 image has something wrong with it.... likely motion blur....

Using comparisons here a Coolpix A at 800 ISO is clearly inferior to a K-3 at ISO 400 under controlled test conditions.



The question then becomes, why are you getting the results you are getting? Problem with your camera or lens? Not good enough technique for a relatively high res camera? We can only guess.

You may have to come to the conclusion, that though the K-3 is capable of more resolution, it might not be the better camera for you.

Your coolpix image was actually quite impressive.. the camera obviously suits your style.

How much effort do you want to put into this or are you looking for the easy answer? I don't think figuring out your K-3 is going to be as easy as figuring out a Coolpix.

Obviously with a camera like a K-3, a lot more can go wrong.... but you also get better images when you get it right. Of course, we all hope you'll tough it out and in the end get what you paid for. Good luck

Last edited by normhead; 02-03-2015 at 11:59 AM.
02-03-2015, 12:00 PM   #48
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https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3915/15067188390_346c607cb6_o.jpg
Shot with DA 21 F3.2 @ F5.6, no sharpening

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3851/15109988461_145ccdd1a3_o.jpg
Shot with 18-135 F3.5-5.6 @ F9, no sharpening

Just for fun...
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/15068880662_9d9d51e075_o.jpg
Shot with Tamron 70-200 F2.8 @ F4.5, little sharpening in LR 5 (Sliders @ 45/45)

If my k-3 can perform this well, then I'm going to say it's your lens and/or technique that is lacking. The Coolpix A is a sharp camera without the AA filter, pretty much on par with the Ricoh GR - and since it is a fixed lens camera with a prime lens it is going to be very sharp. That being said, the k-3 should be at the very least equal with a good lens. If anything, I can easily go out sometime this week with my DA 20-40 and get you some shots that show the k-3 can hold its own.
02-03-2015, 12:18 PM   #49
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The K-50 may be a better starting place for the OP since it has scene modes and can do more automatically for him. It is also a 16mpix vs 24.

The reality is that many apsc fixed lens cameras are stellar. The flexibility given by a k-3 requires a bit more of a learning curve to get the results desired. The k-50 comes with training wheels and might help in this case.

To the op. There are people here trying to help you. However the phrases you use seem to be out of touch with the real world results seen here every day. If you want to learn I would start by finding the recommended settings for your camera and finding an equivalent lens and doing controlled shots from both.

02-03-2015, 02:39 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by FunnyUncle Quote
I did many pictures, allways the same, Nikon perfect a nd Pentax wrong. The Cathedral was made only from hand but other photos was took from tripod. We tested Nikon 810, Sigma 35, and Coolpix with Pentax. Maybe I have really wrong piece of K3. The pictures from K3 are really horrible. So nobody here has the the problems... OK... I will talk to service. They also sayed that the photos are bad... nobody knows why...
Actually, a few people have told you why. Repeating your same argument about the other cameras doesn't make the K3 bad. You just don't know how to use it, yet. If you really want to make comparisons, shoot in JPG mode and make sure that all the metering conditions are exactly the same between the APS-C cameras and even at similar focal lengths. Of course, you still won't have the same lenses, but what you compared is like rolling a four dice. Sometimes they'll all come up the same, but other times some will come up higher than others.

And, if the camera doesn't meat your expectations, get rid of it. As much as many of us here love our Pentax's, I think we all know that the camera that is best is the one we enjoy using.

Last edited by emalvick; 02-03-2015 at 02:49 PM.
02-03-2015, 04:08 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
OP... I venture to say there is nothing mechanically wrong with your K3. The church photo is a cluster F, I would have ventured into the possibility of something being wrong with your K3 even if you did fudge what you stated your settings were. (I've looked at the exifs on all of them and have my own opinion on your choice of exposure settings). However your patio photos tell a different story and that is there isn't a problem with the camera. The Nikon Is an excellent point and shoot with a great fixed lens and a few settings to control the output. The Pentax is a dslr and as with any dslr it is only as good as the person operating it has it set up, the exposure settings they use and the lenses they use, plain and simple. Sharpness is the nature of most prime fixed lenses vs consumer zooms. A good photographer can use a decent consumer grade lens and still get very good useable and correctable photos. That is what both of your wide angle zoom lenses are and they are both very capable of producing better photos on your K3 then what you have taken. Now if you don't want to take the time to learn your new camera and how to get the best out of it and the lenses you choose then I would suggest getting rid of it.

If your happy with the Nikon by all means keep it and shoot away but I suggest your not coming on here further telling experienced dslr users who know that camera stating it doesn't take equally as good if not better photos. You sir are barking up the wrong tree and will find having a long row to hoe in the process. Now if you want to take another path of admitting the possibility of your lack of experience with it and want to learn then you will find this forum and it's members more than willing to help you.
I dont understand well what you say. But if you take two foto and if you use the same sattings in the same conditions you will get the result. I am not talking about art but about quality. I can also drive bad car but its more easier to use better. I would like to know, if somebody has some problems with K3 and I dont want to bark on any tree. I cant for the fact, that Nikon is Better. I only say, I can make better picture from Nikon. I also did better pictures with Fuji xe1, and I also love my pictures from old Pentax k200d and I also love my Nikon D600. So, I was surprised to do bad results with K3. I see the problems in sharpness of the lens and some problems on chip with iso. K3 is flag ship of Pentax so I expected more, becouse I had experiences with a lot of equipment. Sometimes its hard to admit that the true is out of your opinion. Nobody show me some good example of some good picture. I found some samles on internet and its not good. I think that the Ricoh kill the Pentax :-(

---------- Post added 02-04-15 at 12:13 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
Actually, a few people have told you why. Repeating your same argument about the other cameras doesn't make the K3 bad. You just don't know how to use it, yet. If you really want to make comparisons, shoot in JPG mode and make sure that all the metering conditions are exactly the same between the APS-C cameras and even at similar focal lengths. Of course, you still won't have the same lenses, but what you compared is like rolling a four dice. Sometimes they'll all come up the same, but other times some will come up higher than others.

And, if the camera doesn't meat your expectations, get rid of it. As much as many of us here love our Pentax's, I think we all know that the camera that is best is the one we enjoy using.
I think that users of Pentax are too muvh praud. Everybody see the difference but nobody says the Pentax is bad. But I did more pictures and I really think that the output is bad... I sm sorry...

---------- Post added 02-04-15 at 12:29 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
SO to summarize.....

It's harder to get a good image with a K-3 than it is with a 16 MP APS_c camera.... you might want to try a tripod. Similar differences have been noted with Nikon D810s and lower res FF cameras.
Your first K-3 image has something wrong with it.... likely motion blur....

Using comparisons here a Coolpix A at 800 ISO is clearly inferior to a K-3 at ISO 400 under controlled test conditions.



The question then becomes, why are you getting the results you are getting? Problem with your camera or lens? Not good enough technique for a relatively high res camera? We can only guess.

You may have to come to the conclusion, that though the K-3 is capable of more resolution, it might not be the better camera for you.

Your coolpix image was actually quite impressive.. the camera obviously suits your style.

How much effort do you want to put into this or are you looking for the easy answer? I don't think figuring out your K-3 is going to be as easy as figuring out a Coolpix.

Obviously with a camera like a K-3, a lot more can go wrong.... but you also get better images when you get it right. Of course, we all hope you'll tough it out and in the end get what you paid for. Good luck
I need to try more lenses. The reason why I put the test here is to avoid any other mistake with lens. I am affraid to buy someting becouse of the results with Sigma 18-35 Art. And I think I can handle dslr well :-) and actually the test was made on tripod with the professional photographer. So the people could say that both of my hands are left, but they are wrong. I will see after another testing :-)
02-03-2015, 04:42 PM   #52
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Ok. You joined this forum today. You have a new K3 that you aren't happy with the output of. You then say that you see other samples on the internet and that you think they are not good.

Why did you buy a K3? If I saw samples that I considered bad, I surely wouldn't buy that camera.

Have you looked at the images posted throughout this forum's galleries and posts. There are fantastic images all over here from all Pentax cameras. There are even fantastic images from non-Pentax cameras.

We live in an era where I'd even venture to say that every dSLR and camera can be made to put out a good photo IF you know how to use the camera in the first place. As much as I love this forum and my Pentax gear, I do browse a similar forum for Canon users and even a Nikon one a little less often to see how people get along with their cameras and the technique. I can't say that I've seen any results anywhere that would suggest that any dSLR put out in the past couple of years is truly "bad". I've seen good samples everywhere.

And, of course the Pentax users here are going to be proud. I see the same thing from Canon users on the Canon forum I frequent, and I"m sure Nikon users are the same way. It's human nature.
02-03-2015, 04:43 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
Actually, a few people have told you why. Repeating your same argument about the other cameras doesn't make the K3 bad. You just don't know how to use it, yet. If you really want to make comparisons, shoot in JPG mode and make sure that all the metering conditions are exactly the same between the APS-C cameras and even at similar focal lengths. Of course, you still won't have the same lenses, but what you compared is like rolling a four dice. Sometimes they'll all come up the same, but other times some will come up higher than others.

And, if the camera doesn't meat your expectations, get rid of it. As much as many of us here love our Pentax's, I think we all know that the camera that is best is the one we enjoy using.
Yes, everybody say that I cant work with it. No problem, 17 years of taking pictures is still less. But my idea is that the problem could be here... one lens two bodies and 5Mpix difference. See the lijks beoow. Maybe many people here doesnt use 100% view or they dont have comparison to another equipment. I admit that I cant handle it and I will try other lenses, I hope next time I will do the better results with K3 as with my other stuff...

Tests and reviews for the lens Samyang 24mm f/1.4 ED AS UMC Pentax mounted on Pentax K-3 - DxOMark


Tests and reviews for the lens Samyang 24mm f/1.4 ED AS UMC Nikon mounted on Nikon D5300 - DxOMark

02-03-2015, 04:44 PM - 1 Like   #54
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After running around doing some test shots with my arriving-much-too-late K-3, all I can say is its either user error, or a bad lens, or both on your part. Sorry.

I'm looking at the out of camera JPGs this beast is kicking out for me and loving everything about the camera. I'll have to throw my old kit lens from the K-x on it and see if I notice anything different, but so far its passed the test with the three lenses I've tried it out with (my Sigma 10-20, and new Samyang 35 f/1.4 and 85 f/1.4's).

These are both from my new Bower 35mm f/1.4, shot out my apartment window. I'm not even sure if I opened the window up for this.

One's a straight out of camera JPG, the other is the DNG file where I simply changed it to a JPG and uploaded without touching the thing.

35mm, f/10, 1/125 second, ISO 200, default camera settings as far as I know (I don't think I'd mucked with anything yet - I'm kind of scared to, the cameras intimidating coming off my K-30!)


First is the SOOC JPG, second is the DNG converted to JPG with no alterations other than format.



02-03-2015, 04:52 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
If your happy with the Nikon by all means keep it and shoot away but I suggest your not coming on here further telling experienced dslr users who know that camera stating it doesn't take equally as good if not better photos. You sir are barking up the wrong tree and will find having a long row to hoe in the process. Now if you want to take another path of admitting the possibility of your lack of experience with it and want to learn then you will find this forum and it's members more than willing to help you.
What he said...


By the way, does anyone else smell a troll? The answer to the original post is to simply take the camera back.


Steve
02-03-2015, 04:54 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
Ok. You joined this forum today. You have a new K3 that you aren't happy with the output of. You then say that you see other samples on the internet and that you think they are not good.

Why did you buy a K3? If I saw samples that I considered bad, I surely wouldn't buy that camera.

Have you looked at the images posted throughout this forum's galleries and posts. There are fantastic images all over here from all Pentax cameras. There are even fantastic images from non-Pentax cameras.

We live in an era where I'd even venture to say that every dSLR and camera can be made to put out a good photo IF you know how to use the camera in the first place. As much as I love this forum and my Pentax gear, I do browse a similar forum for Canon users and even a Nikon one a little less often to see how people get along with their cameras and the technique. I can't say that I've seen any results anywhere that would suggest that any dSLR put out in the past couple of years is truly "bad". I've seen good samples everywhere.

And, of course the Pentax users here are going to be proud. I see the same thing from Canon users on the Canon forum I frequent, and I"m sure Nikon users are the same way. It's human nature.
I did not want to fight with Pentax users but niw it's war between my opinion and yours. You dont know me so you dont know if the test is made correctly, I dont know Pentax users and I dont know what was made with the pictures in some PC program, so its difficult. I also find many good puctures and also wrong so the best way how to try the gear is to use it in your hand. But I dont understand one think, I can do good picture with all my stuff. I cant do it with K3. I dont think that it is much more difficult than other gear. If anybody here has no problem with K3 I say thats amazing! I need too choose better lens, different settings and I will see... thanks for help

---------- Post added 02-04-15 at 12:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
What he said...


By the way, does anyone else smell a troll? The answer to the original post is to simply take the camera back.


Steve
I am waiting for the service results. They dont know, why the pictures are bad. Still testing... so I post my test of images output to get some feedback from Pentax users...
02-03-2015, 05:02 PM   #57
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When you have 20 people say "I think its user error" you need to at least consider it as a possibility.

I'm going to go put my 18-55 on the camera and see what happens. The kit lens is bad, but its not usually THAT bad.
02-03-2015, 05:02 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sagitta Quote
After running around doing some test shots with my arriving-much-too-late K-3, all I can say is its either user error, or a bad lens, or both on your part. Sorry.

I'm looking at the out of camera JPGs this beast is kicking out for me and loving everything about the camera. I'll have to throw my old kit lens from the K-x on it and see if I notice anything different, but so far its passed the test with the three lenses I've tried it out with (my Sigma 10-20, and new Samyang 35 f/1.4 and 85 f/1.4's).

These are both from my new Bower 35mm f/1.4, shot out my apartment window. I'm not even sure if I opened the window up for this.

One's a straight out of camera JPG, the other is the DNG file where I simply changed it to a JPG and uploaded without touching the thing.

35mm, f/10, 1/125 second, ISO 200, default camera settings as far as I know (I don't think I'd mucked with anything yet - I'm kind of scared to, the cameras intimidating coming off my K-30!)


First is the SOOC JPG, second is the DNG converted to JPG with no alterations other than format.



Thx for samples, I will check it on monitor tomorrow. Now I am using only small tablet...

---------- Post added 02-04-15 at 01:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Sagitta Quote
When you have 20 people say "I think its user error" you need to at least consider it as a possibility.

I'm going to go put my 18-55 on the camera and see what happens. The kit lens is bad, but its not usually THAT bad.
actually I say to service company... tell me if I do something wrong, but they say nothing... they only say its curious... that was the reason that the test from tripod was done with proffesional photograf... not by me...

---------- Post added 02-04-15 at 01:10 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3915/15067188390_346c607cb6_o.jpg
Shot with DA 21 F3.2 @ F5.6, no sharpening

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3851/15109988461_145ccdd1a3_o.jpg
Shot with 18-135 F3.5-5.6 @ F9, no sharpening

Just for fun...
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/15068880662_9d9d51e075_o.jpg
Shot with Tamron 70-200 F2.8 @ F4.5, little sharpening in LR 5 (Sliders @ 45/45)

If my k-3 can perform this well, then I'm going to say it's your lens and/or technique that is lacking. The Coolpix A is a sharp camera without the AA filter, pretty much on par with the Ricoh GR - and since it is a fixed lens camera with a prime lens it is going to be very sharp. That being said, the k-3 should be at the very least equal with a good lens. If anything, I can easily go out sometime this week with my DA 20-40 and get you some shots that show the k-3 can hold its own.
THX for samples, I will check it!
02-03-2015, 05:13 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by FunnyUncle Quote
Thx for samples, I will check it on monitor tomorrow. Now I am using only small tablet...

---------- Post added 02-04-15 at 01:06 AM ----------



actually I say to service company... tell me if I do something wrong, but they say nothing... they only say its curious... that was the reason that the test from tripod was done with proffesional photograf... not by me...
Wait, a pro took that photo for you using your camera?


I'm wondering if he wasn't familiar with Pentax? Or maybe claimed to be a pro but was not?

There are a LOT of issues with that shot, many detectable straight from the EXIF alone (shot too slow, highlights blown meaning it wasn't exposed properly, etc). I'm wondering if the shake was introduced because they never shut the shake reduction off on you - if you leave SR on when you mount the camera on a tripod, the SR will actually degrade the image since it will try to eliminate shake that isn't there (ie, it'll cause blur).

FWIW, I just snapped some shots of my kids using the kit lens, and I can't complain about the IQ for them at all. I'd post to show 'em, but they're in their diapers.
02-03-2015, 05:17 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by FunnyUncle Quote
I am waiting for the service results. They dont know, why the pictures are bad. Still testing... so I post my test of images output to get some feedback from Pentax users...
Conventional wisdom is that if a newly purchased camera fails to function properly you take it back to the seller and let them send it back to Ricoh/Pentax for a full forensic evaluation.

I am sorry, but your course of action makes little sense. If you want a replacement K-3, simply ask the dealer for one.


Steve
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