Low Keeper Rate AF.C and K-5II

Korg · 03-27-2015, 08:59 AM

Hi, can anyone offer some help...

I am shooting sports inside a school gym. Two bodies, K5II and K5IIs, both lenses are Tamron's 2.8, 28 - 75mm and 70 - 200mm. The camera's are set on 5 point AF.C and TAv, shutter speed 320 - 400, aperture 3.2 - 3.5 and ISO is limited at 6400.

My keeper rate is low, I believe due to the AF.C is not nailing the subject. If I use single point or SEL, it turns out great. However, there is not time to compose the shots and zoom in or out.

Any suggestions?

**TER-OR** · 03-27-2015, 09:23 AM

Are you using back-button focusing? I've had luck just trying to follow a single subject AF.C and back-button while zooming in or out. You have to keep centered on a single subject, though, and then get shots as they appear.

**jatrax** · 03-27-2015, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Korg

Any suggestions?

Practice?

Pentax is not noted to have the best tracking AF, but it can be done. You need to practice, practice though and use every advantage you can get. Try center point only and keep it on the subject, that might mean you have to crop some but that's what it is.

Like TER-OR I would suggest using the back button AF, it's not magic but it does help.

LightBug · 03-27-2015, 10:36 AM

Tamron lenses are not known to be fast autofocus lenses. Also, are you sure your shutter speed is fast enough to freeze the action and not be suffering from motion blur?

hcc · 03-27-2015, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

Practice?
Try center point only .

+1. When I shoot indoor, I always use center point with AF lenses. I shoot fast sports (eg volley ball) and I tend to use fast MF lenses (eg 85 f1.4) because some halls are very poory lighted.

My 5 cents...

Korg · 03-27-2015, 11:43 AM

Thanks for everyone's input and knowledge.

The shows are very quick, 4 minutes.

Originally posted by TER-OR

Are you using back-button focusing? I've had luck just trying to follow a single subject AF.C and back-button while zooming in or out. You have to keep centered on a single subject, though, and then get shots as they appear.

Have never tried back-button focusing before. I have printed off the set-up instructions and will try it. I have a track and feild meet tomorrow and will see how it works. Can't image doing it with the 70 -200mm though. (Surppoting the lens with one hand, and the other hand on the shutter and back button.)

Originally posted by jatrax

Practice?

Pentax is not noted to have the best tracking AF, but it can be done. You need to practice, practice though and use every advantage you can get. Try center point only and keep it on the subject, that might mean you have to crop some but that's what it is.

Center point and SEL works, it's the short amount of time that I have to put the focus point on their face, zoom, this will work as a: landscape or portrait and take the picture. Also, not cutting off body parts.

Pentax is not noted to have the best tracking AF :-(

Originally posted by LightBug

Tamron lenses are not known to be fast autofocus lenses. Also, are you sure your shutter speed is fast enough to freeze the action and not be suffering from motion blur?

Yes, shutter speed it fast enough.

Who makes fast autofocus zoom lenses for low light action shots? Sigma?

**jbinpg** · 03-27-2015, 11:46 AM

I believe focus tracking is only engaged if using one of the SEL modes. Check the documentation.

**TER-OR** · 03-27-2015, 12:18 PM

Fast focusing? The motorized Sigma and Tamron 70-200s get good marks from what I've read.
The 18-135 isn't bad either.

stevebrot · 03-27-2015, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by jbinpg

I believe focus tracking is only engaged if using one of the SEL modes. Check the documentation.

That would be Expanded Area AF. When set to "on", it is similar to focus tracking, but is applicable when using a selected AF point. Are you saying that is the only mode where subject movement is tracked?

Steve

mohb · 03-27-2015, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Korg

However, there is not time to compose the shots and zoom in or out.

what sport in a gym? If they are moving fast just shoot at a wide angle and crop

Korg · 03-27-2015, 05:05 PM

Ok, I set-up the camera's for back-button focusing...

Does it make a difference if you do not disable the shutter release button? The manual on pg. 125 is showing that you can have them both enabled and use either.

**jatrax** · 03-27-2015, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Korg

Ok, I set-up the camera's for back-button focusing... Does it make a difference if you do not disable the shutter release button? The manual on pg. 125 is showing that you can have them both enabled and use either.

Defeats the purpose if the AF is still tied to the shutter button. The object is to separate the functions. You use your thumb to focus and the shutter button to actually take the shot. Takes a bit of practice to feel comfortable with it but it does make a difference. K-5 button is a little awkward for me, K-3 button is perfect for my thumb.

Also if you have the camera set to AF-C then you hold the button down for continuous focusing or if you want to focus and recompose, focus by pressing the button and release it. The you can move around and press the shutter button without worrying that the camera will re-focus. Best of both in the same button. And if you have a quick-shift lens, you manually focus and then nail it with a press of the button, or focus with the button, release it and fine tune with quickshift without worrying that the shutter button will re-focus.

MadMathMind · 03-27-2015, 06:43 PM

Did anyone mention turning off SR? When you're panning with AFS.C, having SR on will make a big mess of things.

Korg · 03-27-2015, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Defeats the purpose if the AF is still tied to the shutter button. The object is to separate the functions. You use your thumb to focus and the shutter button to actually take the shot. Takes a bit of practice to feel comfortable with it but it does make a difference. K-5 button is a little awkward for me, K-3 button is perfect for my thumb.

Also if you have the camera set to AF-C then you hold the button down for continuous focusing or if you want to focus and recompose, focus by pressing the button and release it. The you can move around and press the shutter button without worrying that the camera will re-focus. Best of both in the same button. And if you have a quick-shift lens, you manually focus and then nail it with a press of the button, or focus with the button, release it and fine tune with quickshift without worrying that the shutter button will re-focus.

Makes sense, will give it a go tomorrow. Thanks.

---------- Post added 03-27-15 at 09:52 PM ----------

Originally posted by MadMathMind

Did anyone mention turning off SR? When you're panning with AFS.C, having SR on will make a big mess of things.

Thanks. Yes, read that in a different posting.

Rnovo · 03-27-2015, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Defeats the purpose if the AF is still tied to the shutter button. The object is to separate the functions. You use your thumb to focus and the shutter button to actually take the shot. Takes a bit of practice to feel comfortable with it but it does make a difference. K-5 button is a little awkward for me, K-3 button is perfect for my thumb.

Also if you have the camera set to AF-C then you hold the button down for continuous focusing or if you want to focus and recompose, focus by pressing the button and release it. The you can move around and press the shutter button without worrying that the camera will re-focus. Best of both in the same button. And if you have a quick-shift lens, you manually focus and then nail it with a press of the button, or focus with the button, release it and fine tune with quickshift without worrying that the shutter button will re-focus.

Good answer - I use that technique for hockey with a monopod and I have consistently good results wide open at 1/125 (1/250 pushing it!) with high ISO which is no problem on a K5 or K5II. It will allow you also to do some panning which requires a little practice. Going a bit further, you can use your 2 bodies with one short lens and a zoom on the other and switch back and forth as required, with that monopod.

03-27-2015, 08:59 AM	#1
Korg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 148	Low Keeper Rate AF.C and K-5II Hi, can anyone offer some help... I am shooting sports inside a school gym. Two bodies, K5II and K5IIs, both lenses are Tamron's 2.8, 28 - 75mm and 70 - 200mm. The camera's are set on 5 point AF.C and TAv, shutter speed 320 - 400, aperture 3.2 - 3.5 and ISO is limited at 6400. My keeper rate is low, I believe due to the AF.C is not nailing the subject. If I use single point or SEL, it turns out great. However, there is not time to compose the shots and zoom in or out. Any suggestions?

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03-27-2015, 09:23 AM	#2
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	Are you using back-button focusing? I've had luck just trying to follow a single subject AF.C and back-button while zooming in or out. You have to keep centered on a single subject, though, and then get shots as they appear.

03-27-2015, 10:01 AM	#3
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Korg Any suggestions? Practice? Pentax is not noted to have the best tracking AF, but it can be done. You need to practice, practice though and use every advantage you can get. Try center point only and keep it on the subject, that might mean you have to crop some but that's what it is. Like TER-OR I would suggest using the back button AF, it's not magic but it does help.

03-27-2015, 10:36 AM	#4
LightBug Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OC, CA, USA Posts: 506	Tamron lenses are not known to be fast autofocus lenses. Also, are you sure your shutter speed is fast enough to freeze the action and not be suffering from motion blur?

03-27-2015, 11:32 AM	#5
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,005	Originally posted by jatrax Practice? Try center point only . +1. When I shoot indoor, I always use center point with AF lenses. I shoot fast sports (eg volley ball) and I tend to use fast MF lenses (eg 85 f1.4) because some halls are very poory lighted. My 5 cents...

03-27-2015, 11:43 AM	#6
Korg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 148 Original Poster	Thanks for everyone's input and knowledge. The shows are very quick, 4 minutes. Originally posted by TER-OR Are you using back-button focusing? I've had luck just trying to follow a single subject AF.C and back-button while zooming in or out. You have to keep centered on a single subject, though, and then get shots as they appear. Have never tried back-button focusing before. I have printed off the set-up instructions and will try it. I have a track and feild meet tomorrow and will see how it works. Can't image doing it with the 70 -200mm though. (Surppoting the lens with one hand, and the other hand on the shutter and back button.) Originally posted by jatrax Practice? Pentax is not noted to have the best tracking AF, but it can be done. You need to practice, practice though and use every advantage you can get. Try center point only and keep it on the subject, that might mean you have to crop some but that's what it is. Center point and SEL works, it's the short amount of time that I have to put the focus point on their face, zoom, this will work as a: landscape or portrait and take the picture. Also, not cutting off body parts. Pentax is not noted to have the best tracking AF :-( Originally posted by LightBug Tamron lenses are not known to be fast autofocus lenses. Also, are you sure your shutter speed is fast enough to freeze the action and not be suffering from motion blur? Yes, shutter speed it fast enough. Who makes fast autofocus zoom lenses for low light action shots? Sigma?

03-27-2015, 11:46 AM	#7
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	I believe focus tracking is only engaged if using one of the SEL modes. Check the documentation.

03-27-2015, 12:18 PM	#8
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	Fast focusing? The motorized Sigma and Tamron 70-200s get good marks from what I've read. The 18-135 isn't bad either.

03-27-2015, 01:38 PM	#9
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jbinpg I believe focus tracking is only engaged if using one of the SEL modes. Check the documentation. That would be Expanded Area AF. When set to "on", it is similar to focus tracking, but is applicable when using a selected AF point. Are you saying that is the only mode where subject movement is tracked? Steve

03-27-2015, 02:35 PM	#10
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by Korg However, there is not time to compose the shots and zoom in or out. what sport in a gym? If they are moving fast just shoot at a wide angle and crop

03-27-2015, 05:05 PM	#11
Korg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 148 Original Poster	Ok, I set-up the camera's for back-button focusing... Does it make a difference if you do not disable the shutter release button? The manual on pg. 125 is showing that you can have them both enabled and use either.

03-27-2015, 06:30 PM	#12
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Korg Ok, I set-up the camera's for back-button focusing... Does it make a difference if you do not disable the shutter release button? The manual on pg. 125 is showing that you can have them both enabled and use either. Defeats the purpose if the AF is still tied to the shutter button. The object is to separate the functions. You use your thumb to focus and the shutter button to actually take the shot. Takes a bit of practice to feel comfortable with it but it does make a difference. K-5 button is a little awkward for me, K-3 button is perfect for my thumb. Also if you have the camera set to AF-C then you hold the button down for continuous focusing or if you want to focus and recompose, focus by pressing the button and release it. The you can move around and press the shutter button without worrying that the camera will re-focus. Best of both in the same button. And if you have a quick-shift lens, you manually focus and then nail it with a press of the button, or focus with the button, release it and fine tune with quickshift without worrying that the shutter button will re-focus.

03-27-2015, 06:43 PM	#13
MadMathMind Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,717	Did anyone mention turning off SR? When you're panning with AFS.C, having SR on will make a big mess of things.

03-27-2015, 06:51 PM	#14
Korg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 148 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax Defeats the purpose if the AF is still tied to the shutter button. The object is to separate the functions. You use your thumb to focus and the shutter button to actually take the shot. Takes a bit of practice to feel comfortable with it but it does make a difference. K-5 button is a little awkward for me, K-3 button is perfect for my thumb. Also if you have the camera set to AF-C then you hold the button down for continuous focusing or if you want to focus and recompose, focus by pressing the button and release it. The you can move around and press the shutter button without worrying that the camera will re-focus. Best of both in the same button. And if you have a quick-shift lens, you manually focus and then nail it with a press of the button, or focus with the button, release it and fine tune with quickshift without worrying that the shutter button will re-focus. Makes sense, will give it a go tomorrow. Thanks. ---------- Post added 03-27-15 at 09:52 PM ---------- Originally posted by MadMathMind Did anyone mention turning off SR? When you're panning with AFS.C, having SR on will make a big mess of things. Thanks. Yes, read that in a different posting.

03-27-2015, 06:53 PM	#15
Rnovo Closed Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 415	Originally posted by jatrax Defeats the purpose if the AF is still tied to the shutter button. The object is to separate the functions. You use your thumb to focus and the shutter button to actually take the shot. Takes a bit of practice to feel comfortable with it but it does make a difference. K-5 button is a little awkward for me, K-3 button is perfect for my thumb. Also if you have the camera set to AF-C then you hold the button down for continuous focusing or if you want to focus and recompose, focus by pressing the button and release it. The you can move around and press the shutter button without worrying that the camera will re-focus. Best of both in the same button. And if you have a quick-shift lens, you manually focus and then nail it with a press of the button, or focus with the button, release it and fine tune with quickshift without worrying that the shutter button will re-focus. Good answer - I use that technique for hockey with a monopod and I have consistently good results wide open at 1/125 (1/250 pushing it!) with high ISO which is no problem on a K5 or K5II. It will allow you also to do some panning which requires a little practice. Going a bit further, you can use your 2 bodies with one short lens and a zoom on the other and switch back and forth as required, with that monopod.