K-3 Retaining (incorrect) Lens Data Using Manual Lenses?

Sagitta · 04-15-2015, 05:33 PM

At least I assume its the K-3 (it could be Lightroom being dumb). I never ran into this issue with the K-30, so it kind of has me flummoxed. Its *probably* something insanely stupid that I'm missing but here goes...

If I stick a manual zoom lens on the K-3, I turn the SR off, turn the camera off, swap out to my zoom lens, shoot for a while, etc.

I just realized that when I did this earlier today, for some reason the camera decided to tag all the zoom shots as 85mm (I'd been using an 85mm prime just prior to playing with the zooms, so it carried over from that).

This is annoying.

With the K-30, turning SR off meant that the camera would not stamp a focal length to the EXIF, and in Lightroom the lens would show up as 'Unknown Focal Length'. A quick check shows that since getting the K-3, I have a whopping 5 'Unknown Focal Length' lenses (and all 5 were run through Topaz Labs' Fusion Express, which killed the EXIF entirely), so obviously this has been an issue for me from the beginning.

Did the K-3 sneak in an extra step or setting I'm unaware of that I missed going through the manual? I prefer my zooms to not show any focal length data at all.

stevebrot · 04-15-2015, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by Sagitta

With the K-30, turning SR off meant that the camera would not stamp a focal length to the EXIF

With the K-3 as well as (I believe) all SR-capable flagship models that came before it, the focal length is recorded regardless of whether SR is turned on. What's more, the value will default to the last focal length entered unless manually overridden at start-up or from the capture menu. I have made it my practice to always turn the camera off when changing lenses. This has a number of benefits, one of which is that the camera will always prompt for focal length on start-up if a manual focus lens is mounted. It is too bad that the K-3 does not support a value of "unknown", a side effect of which might be to turn off the SR.

Steve

FWIW, I sort of like this behavior. I have a plethora of lenses that do not self-identify and often mix and match within a session. The focal length provides a clue that I can use later for manual edits to the EXIF.

aleonx3 · 04-15-2015, 05:46 PM

The camera keeps the last focal length of the manual lens you mounted on; if you had SR off, then the focal length input screen prompt does not appear when the camera is turned on. Hence you got the last focal length recorded in the EXIF focal length field.

Sagitta · 04-15-2015, 06:00 PM

Ah. So this is a 'feature' or... something. Both the K-x and K-30 would just pop up as an unknown lens, which means I didn't have to play games when going back in to ask "Wait, did I actually shoot this with the 85 or was I using something else?" a year down the road. :-/ It would be a nice option to have in the settings to be able to toggle that off and on depending on preference.

stevebrot · 04-15-2015, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Sagitta

Ah. So this is a 'feature' or... something.

Yep...long-time feature going back at least as far as the K10D.

Steve

stevebrot · 04-15-2015, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

This has a number of benefits, one of which is that the camera will always prompt for focal length on start-up if a manual focus lens is mounted

Originally posted by aleonx3

if you had SR off, then the focal length input screen prompt does not appear when the camera is turned on. Hence you got the last focal length recorded in the EXIF focal length field.

You are correct and I am also correct sort of. I almost never toggle the SR from the info screen, but use the 2s delay instead and was unaware of the behavior there. If toggled from the info screen, the camera will not prompt, just as you described. If you use the 2s delay and turn the camera off/on, it will prompt for focal length.

Steve

stevebrot · 04-15-2015, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Sagitta

"Wait, did I actually shoot this with the 85 or was I using something else?"

You are right. It can be problematic. I have a taken a number of shots with my fisheye and forgot to change the focal length from a longer setting. It is tedious, but those I manually edit using ExifToolGui.

Steve

mechmike10 · 04-15-2015, 06:41 PM

This is sort of tangential to the discussion, but I try to always turn off the camera before swapping lenses as leaving it on practically invites dust to appear on the sensor. This was a real problem with the k10d.

vonBaloney · 04-16-2015, 06:55 AM

Yeah, what I do is turn SR on (even if I don't want it on), turn the camera off, turn the camera back on so it will ask me the focal length, put in the correct focal length, and then possibly turn SR off once I have that set. On the K-5, that's the only way to do it. On the K-01 (and the Q) you can change focal length anytime from a menu (for a manual lens). What I'd really like is that to be a full-time choice so I can override the given focal length even for AF lenses, but that's probably never going to happen...

uttam.hathi · 04-16-2015, 07:35 AM

its nothing other than firmware issue, wonder who is writing the software, inadequate 'memory' hoya legacy continues, Pentax really need to reconsider the way the software works

vonBaloney · 04-16-2015, 07:45 AM

Regarding "unknown" -- I know I've got some of these. I think if you are using an AF lens where it reads the value, then you turn off SR, and then the camera, do your lens swap to a manual, turn it back on (it will not ask you focal length b/c SR is off), then it will read unknown. (Was the 85mm prime of the OP also a manual lens?)

You can always use something like EXIFtool to rewrite the values for you later. Swap out SD cards with each lens to make it easier to keep them grouped together for processing maybe...

stevebrot · 04-16-2015, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by uttam.hathi

its nothing other than firmware issue, wonder who is writing the software, inadequate 'memory' hoya legacy continues, Pentax really need to reconsider the way the software works

Hmmm...perhaps you posted this to the wrong thread?

Steve

stevebrot · 04-16-2015, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

On the K-5, that's the only way to do it.

So the menu grays out if SR is turned off? Fortunately the K-3 does not work that way.

Steve

vonBaloney · 04-16-2015, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

So the menu grays out if SR is turned off? Fortunately the K-3 does not work that way.

Oh no, it is there, why didn't I know that? Maybe they added it at some point with a firmware update, or I just forgot because I never use that menu. But it won't ask when you turn the camera on if SR is turned off already, unlike the K-01 or the Q which always ask.

Sagitta · 04-16-2015, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Regarding "unknown" -- I know I've got some of these. I think if you are using an AF lens where it reads the value, then you turn off SR, and then the camera, do your lens swap to a manual, turn it back on (it will not ask you focal length b/c SR is off), then it will read unknown. (Was the 85mm prime of the OP also a manual lens?)

You can always use something like EXIFtool to rewrite the values for you later. Swap out SD cards with each lens to make it easier to keep them grouped together for processing maybe...

It was the Samyang 85mm - basically a modern 'A' lens (no autofocus involved, have to manually input the focal length).

It does it with that or the regular AF lenses I have as well. I'll just have to keep in mind it does this so I know what to watch for.

04-15-2015, 05:33 PM	#1
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	K-3 Retaining (incorrect) Lens Data Using Manual Lenses? At least I assume its the K-3 (it could be Lightroom being dumb). I never ran into this issue with the K-30, so it kind of has me flummoxed. Its probably something insanely stupid that I'm missing but here goes... If I stick a manual zoom lens on the K-3, I turn the SR off, turn the camera off, swap out to my zoom lens, shoot for a while, etc. I just realized that when I did this earlier today, for some reason the camera decided to tag all the zoom shots as 85mm (I'd been using an 85mm prime just prior to playing with the zooms, so it carried over from that). This is annoying. With the K-30, turning SR off meant that the camera would not stamp a focal length to the EXIF, and in Lightroom the lens would show up as 'Unknown Focal Length'. A quick check shows that since getting the K-3, I have a whopping 5 'Unknown Focal Length' lenses (and all 5 were run through Topaz Labs' Fusion Express, which killed the EXIF entirely), so obviously this has been an issue for me from the beginning. Did the K-3 sneak in an extra step or setting I'm unaware of that I missed going through the manual? I prefer my zooms to not show any focal length data at all.

04-15-2015, 05:45 PM	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Sagitta With the K-30, turning SR off meant that the camera would not stamp a focal length to the EXIF With the K-3 as well as (I believe) all SR-capable flagship models that came before it, the focal length is recorded regardless of whether SR is turned on. What's more, the value will default to the last focal length entered unless manually overridden at start-up or from the capture menu. I have made it my practice to always turn the camera off when changing lenses. This has a number of benefits, one of which is that the camera will always prompt for focal length on start-up if a manual focus lens is mounted. It is too bad that the K-3 does not support a value of "unknown", a side effect of which might be to turn off the SR. Steve FWIW, I sort of like this behavior. I have a plethora of lenses that do not self-identify and often mix and match within a session. The focal length provides a clue that I can use later for manual edits to the EXIF. Last edited by stevebrot; 04-15-2015 at 06:07 PM.

04-15-2015, 05:46 PM	#3
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	The camera keeps the last focal length of the manual lens you mounted on; if you had SR off, then the focal length input screen prompt does not appear when the camera is turned on. Hence you got the last focal length recorded in the EXIF focal length field. Last edited by aleonx3; 04-15-2015 at 05:58 PM.

04-16-2015, 07:35 AM	#10
uttam.hathi Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 621	firmware its nothing other than firmware issue, wonder who is writing the software, inadequate 'memory' hoya legacy continues, Pentax really need to reconsider the way the software works

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04-15-2015, 06:00 PM	#4
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081 Original Poster	Ah. So this is a 'feature' or... something. Both the K-x and K-30 would just pop up as an unknown lens, which means I didn't have to play games when going back in to ask "Wait, did I actually shoot this with the 85 or was I using something else?" a year down the road. :-/ It would be a nice option to have in the settings to be able to toggle that off and on depending on preference.

04-15-2015, 06:02 PM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Sagitta Ah. So this is a 'feature' or... something. Yep...long-time feature going back at least as far as the K10D. Steve

04-15-2015, 06:11 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stevebrot This has a number of benefits, one of which is that the camera will always prompt for focal length on start-up if a manual focus lens is mounted Originally posted by aleonx3 if you had SR off, then the focal length input screen prompt does not appear when the camera is turned on. Hence you got the last focal length recorded in the EXIF focal length field. You are correct and I am also correct sort of. I almost never toggle the SR from the info screen, but use the 2s delay instead and was unaware of the behavior there. If toggled from the info screen, the camera will not prompt, just as you described. If you use the 2s delay and turn the camera off/on, it will prompt for focal length. Steve

04-15-2015, 06:14 PM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Sagitta "Wait, did I actually shoot this with the 85 or was I using something else?" You are right. It can be problematic. I have a taken a number of shots with my fisheye and forgot to change the focal length from a longer setting. It is tedious, but those I manually edit using ExifToolGui. Steve

04-15-2015, 06:41 PM	#8
mechmike10 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 176	This is sort of tangential to the discussion, but I try to always turn off the camera before swapping lenses as leaving it on practically invites dust to appear on the sensor. This was a real problem with the k10d.

04-16-2015, 06:55 AM	#9
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Yeah, what I do is turn SR on (even if I don't want it on), turn the camera off, turn the camera back on so it will ask me the focal length, put in the correct focal length, and then possibly turn SR off once I have that set. On the K-5, that's the only way to do it. On the K-01 (and the Q) you can change focal length anytime from a menu (for a manual lens). What I'd really like is that to be a full-time choice so I can override the given focal length even for AF lenses, but that's probably never going to happen...

04-16-2015, 07:45 AM	#11
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Regarding "unknown" -- I know I've got some of these. I think if you are using an AF lens where it reads the value, then you turn off SR, and then the camera, do your lens swap to a manual, turn it back on (it will not ask you focal length b/c SR is off), then it will read unknown. (Was the 85mm prime of the OP also a manual lens?) You can always use something like EXIFtool to rewrite the values for you later. Swap out SD cards with each lens to make it easier to keep them grouped together for processing maybe...

04-16-2015, 07:56 AM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by uttam.hathi its nothing other than firmware issue, wonder who is writing the software, inadequate 'memory' hoya legacy continues, Pentax really need to reconsider the way the software works Hmmm...perhaps you posted this to the wrong thread? Steve

04-16-2015, 07:59 AM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by vonBaloney On the K-5, that's the only way to do it. So the menu grays out if SR is turned off? Fortunately the K-3 does not work that way. Steve

04-16-2015, 09:15 AM	#14
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Originally posted by stevebrot So the menu grays out if SR is turned off? Fortunately the K-3 does not work that way. Oh no, it is there, why didn't I know that? Maybe they added it at some point with a firmware update, or I just forgot because I never use that menu. But it won't ask when you turn the camera on if SR is turned off already, unlike the K-01 or the Q which always ask.

04-16-2015, 10:24 AM	#15
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081 Original Poster	Originally posted by vonBaloney Regarding "unknown" -- I know I've got some of these. I think if you are using an AF lens where it reads the value, then you turn off SR, and then the camera, do your lens swap to a manual, turn it back on (it will not ask you focal length b/c SR is off), then it will read unknown. (Was the 85mm prime of the OP also a manual lens?) You can always use something like EXIFtool to rewrite the values for you later. Swap out SD cards with each lens to make it easier to keep them grouped together for processing maybe... It was the Samyang 85mm - basically a modern 'A' lens (no autofocus involved, have to manually input the focal length). It does it with that or the regular AF lenses I have as well. I'll just have to keep in mind it does this so I know what to watch for.