Clock resets with battery change

Not a Number · 06-30-2015, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Ex Finn.

A "Double layer" super capacitor should be good for thousands of cycles...?

According to the datasheet::

"Unlike batteries, the number of charging / discharging cycles unlimited and rapid charging / discharging is possible."

pishta · 06-30-2015, 07:35 PM

This is the backside of the K-x mainboard, notice 'supercap' in lower left corner.

**i_trax** · 06-30-2015, 08:31 PM

the same happened to my new K-3ii, replaced the battery ( the first time) within couple of seconds and time/date settings gone, all the rest was fine,Hmmmm??

stevebrot · 06-30-2015, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by i_trax

the same happened to my new K-3ii, replaced the battery ( the first time) within couple of seconds and time/date settings gone, all the rest was fine,Hmmmm??

I would contact your seller. As noted above, the date/time is usually kept with either a capacitor or a large diameter button cell similar to that found in a PC computer. The capacitor should be good for decades with regular use. The button cell for several years. Neither type should be bad on a new camera.

Steve

pishta · 07-01-2015, 07:18 AM

Steve, the specs on the original super cap in my Oly C5050 states 500 hours, have no idea what that means in real life use. The ELNA caps in the link are rated for 1000 hours.

Not a Number · 07-01-2015, 09:37 AM

Endurance is the measure of how long the component will operate within specifications at the rated voltage and upper temperature category. The test methodology is outlined in the IEC60384-4 standards. 1000 hrs is like 41 day 16 hours. Capacitors are only operating when they are charging and discharging, correct?

pishta · 07-01-2015, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Endurance is the measure of how long the component will operate within specifications at the rated voltage and upper temperature category. The test methodology is outlined in the IEC60384-4 standards. 1000 hrs is like 41 day 16 hours. Capacitors are only operating when they are charging and discharging, correct?

Seems the rating is at upper temp as stated. Do these cameras get 85C? If its rated 1000 hrs, it means it retains its rated capacitance .2f for 1000 hrs. At 85C. There seems to be a rule with capacitors that is: for every 10C held under the rated max temp, you can double the life. So if the camera operates at 65C (shooting video?) You are still at a 4000 hr lifespan. Every failed supercap I have replaced had signs of leakage at crimp seam as evidence of rust. So it seems that if the capacitor never leaks, you should be good for many years.

kh1234567890 · 07-01-2015, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by pishta

The ELNA caps in the link are rated for 1000 hours.

That is at the rated max temperature. The lifetime typically doubles for every 10C drop in operating temperature. So you should get a few years out of it at room temperature before the electrolyte dries out/decomposes. It is very inconsiderate of manufacturers to make a limited life component such as this effectively non-replaceable, in order to sell more camera bodies.

As much as these caps are touted to be the solution to all of mankind's power storage problems the fact is that they are an evolutionary dead end since being a capacitor the output voltage drops on discharge (as opposed to batteries where the output voltage stays more or less constant during discharge), making it difficult to recover all the energy that you'd put in. But I digress (I used to dabble in electrochemistry for a living) ...

Not a Number · 07-01-2015, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by pishta

So it seems that if the capacitor never leaks, you should be good for many years.

The spec sheet says the shelf life is the same as endurance.

**Ex Finn.** · 07-03-2015, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by pishta

This is the backside of the K-x mainboard, notice 'supercap' in lower left corner.

That "super cap" sure looks like a 3 volt Seiko lithium battery

stevebrot · 07-03-2015, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Ex Finn.

That "super cap" sure looks like a 3 volt Seiko lithium battery

That was my thought as well (replaced a few of those over the years), but since the photo is a little blurry, I figured to simply let it rest.

Steve

**Spodeworld** · 07-22-2015, 07:42 AM

I sent it in to Precision and it was turned around in a week. Did fixed that, cleaned the camera and recalibrated the AF. This K30 is sharp now! Impressed with the work they did.

**realitarian** · 07-22-2015, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Spodeworld

I sent it in to Precision and it was turned around in a week. Did fixed that, cleaned the camera and recalibrated the AF. This K30 is sharp now! Impressed with the work they did.

Same here, Precision fixed this issue on my K-3. All good now.

focusian · 01-09-2016, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by pishta

Steve, the specs on the original super cap in my Oly C5050 states 500 hours, have no idea what that means in real life use. The ELNA caps in the link are rated for 1000 hours.

Thank you Pishta that give me an idea about supercap. I bought it from Ebay and replaced it myself. i am not a repairer but after trying i found it not hard to disassemble my K-30 which had problem more than a year. Now i will keep it together with K-5 .

pishta · 01-11-2016, 08:11 AM

Glad to hear it worked out. The Kx isnt that bad to take apart either, no weather seals but just a few accessible ribbon cables.

07-03-2015, 03:27 PM	#25
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	Originally posted by pishta This is the backside of the K-x mainboard, notice 'supercap' in lower left corner. That "super cap" sure looks like a 3 volt Seiko lithium battery Last edited by Ex Finn.; 07-03-2015 at 03:40 PM.

07-03-2015, 05:59 PM	#26
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Ex Finn. That "super cap" sure looks like a 3 volt Seiko lithium battery That was my thought as well (replaced a few of those over the years), but since the photo is a little blurry, I figured to simply let it rest. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 07-22-2015 at 03:20 PM.

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06-30-2015, 07:23 PM	#16
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by Ex Finn. A "Double layer" super capacitor should be good for thousands of cycles...? According to the datasheet:: "Unlike batteries, the number of charging / discharging cycles unlimited and rapid charging / discharging is possible."

06-30-2015, 08:31 PM	#18
i_trax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,621	the same happened to my new K-3ii, replaced the battery ( the first time) within couple of seconds and time/date settings gone, all the rest was fine,Hmmmm??

06-30-2015, 08:53 PM	#19
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by i_trax the same happened to my new K-3ii, replaced the battery ( the first time) within couple of seconds and time/date settings gone, all the rest was fine,Hmmmm?? I would contact your seller. As noted above, the date/time is usually kept with either a capacitor or a large diameter button cell similar to that found in a PC computer. The capacitor should be good for decades with regular use. The button cell for several years. Neither type should be bad on a new camera. Steve

07-01-2015, 07:18 AM	#20
pishta Forum Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 92	Steve, the specs on the original super cap in my Oly C5050 states 500 hours, have no idea what that means in real life use. The ELNA caps in the link are rated for 1000 hours.

07-01-2015, 09:37 AM	#21
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Endurance is the measure of how long the component will operate within specifications at the rated voltage and upper temperature category. The test methodology is outlined in the IEC60384-4 standards. 1000 hrs is like 41 day 16 hours. Capacitors are only operating when they are charging and discharging, correct?

07-01-2015, 01:21 PM	#22
pishta Forum Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 92	Originally posted by Not a Number Endurance is the measure of how long the component will operate within specifications at the rated voltage and upper temperature category. The test methodology is outlined in the IEC60384-4 standards. 1000 hrs is like 41 day 16 hours. Capacitors are only operating when they are charging and discharging, correct? Seems the rating is at upper temp as stated. Do these cameras get 85C? If its rated 1000 hrs, it means it retains its rated capacitance .2f for 1000 hrs. At 85C. There seems to be a rule with capacitors that is: for every 10C held under the rated max temp, you can double the life. So if the camera operates at 65C (shooting video?) You are still at a 4000 hr lifespan. Every failed supercap I have replaced had signs of leakage at crimp seam as evidence of rust. So it seems that if the capacitor never leaks, you should be good for many years.

07-01-2015, 01:35 PM	#23
kh1234567890 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Manchester, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,653	Originally posted by pishta The ELNA caps in the link are rated for 1000 hours. That is at the rated max temperature. The lifetime typically doubles for every 10C drop in operating temperature. So you should get a few years out of it at room temperature before the electrolyte dries out/decomposes. It is very inconsiderate of manufacturers to make a limited life component such as this effectively non-replaceable, in order to sell more camera bodies. As much as these caps are touted to be the solution to all of mankind's power storage problems the fact is that they are an evolutionary dead end since being a capacitor the output voltage drops on discharge (as opposed to batteries where the output voltage stays more or less constant during discharge), making it difficult to recover all the energy that you'd put in. But I digress (I used to dabble in electrochemistry for a living) ...

07-01-2015, 03:29 PM	#24
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by pishta So it seems that if the capacitor never leaks, you should be good for many years. The spec sheet says the shelf life is the same as endurance.

07-22-2015, 07:42 AM	#27
Spodeworld Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New Joisey Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,370 Original Poster	I sent it in to Precision and it was turned around in a week. Did fixed that, cleaned the camera and recalibrated the AF. This K30 is sharp now! Impressed with the work they did.

07-22-2015, 08:30 AM	#28
realitarian Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 221	Originally posted by Spodeworld I sent it in to Precision and it was turned around in a week. Did fixed that, cleaned the camera and recalibrated the AF. This K30 is sharp now! Impressed with the work they did. Same here, Precision fixed this issue on my K-3. All good now.

01-09-2016, 08:27 AM	#29
focusian Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 42	Originally posted by pishta Steve, the specs on the original super cap in my Oly C5050 states 500 hours, have no idea what that means in real life use. The ELNA caps in the link are rated for 1000 hours. Thank you Pishta that give me an idea about supercap. I bought it from Ebay and replaced it myself. i am not a repairer but after trying i found it not hard to disassemble my K-30 which had problem more than a year. Now i will keep it together with K-5 .

01-11-2016, 08:11 AM	#30
pishta Forum Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 92	Glad to hear it worked out. The Kx isnt that bad to take apart either, no weather seals but just a few accessible ribbon cables.