K-3 II, external flash with manual lenses

Dr. Zee · 08-14-2015, 07:27 PM

I'm very new to flash photography. I recently upgraded to the K-3 II and I'm trying to learn my AF-360FGZ flash unit. I've been using, and enjoying, a Takumar 50mm and thought I'd also try using it with an external flash.
So I've been stumbling around with these settings, and I wanted to run them by someone to make sure I'm not making my life unnecessarily difficult.

Here are the rules of an M lens, an external flash, and the K-3 II as I currently understand them:

No TTL. Though the flash fires, and it says P-TTL on the unit, it fires at full intensity every time. Changing the EV on the flash seems to have no effect. This can be compensated for by stopping down the lens aperture or ISO, at the expense of the ambient exposure.
The flash can only switch to Auto Mode when the camera is on M or X.
Shutter speed is fixed at 180 or less, can only be controlled in M, and then still not set above 180. Sensitivity and EV can still be controlled on camera in most camera modes, but shutter is, for the most part,locked.
When the flash is in Automatic mode, there is no direct EV compensation setting on the flash. Flash output can only be reduced by entering higher ISO or stopping up the aperture on the flash unit.

In a dynamic, low light setting with lots of people around, I can't stop and futz with my flash and camera to this degree, so if I'm correct about all these rules, it'll spell doom for my affair with Manual lenses.

Last edited by Dr. Zee; 08-14-2015 at 07:40 PM.

Not a Number · 08-14-2015, 07:50 PM

According to the Accessory Database in full manual mode the flash has six power settings. Instead of changing f-stop or ISO you can change the power setting.

If the unit has auto mode then shoot as we did in the film era with auto flashes. Set the camera to X mode which will set the shutter to flash sync speed. Set the f-stop as indicated by the flash unit or instructions - as long as you shoot within the distance range for the auto setting all you have to do is worry about focus and composition. You can always cheat outside the range (within limits) by changing the f-stop or ISO. That's what I do when using an old Sunpak auto flash with MF and AF lenses.

Or just use "A" series MF lenses in the "A" mode and you can use P-TTL flash.

stevebrot · 08-14-2015, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

If the unit has auto mode then shoot as we did in the film era with auto flashes.

Yes, the AF360FGZ has auto mode and that is probably the easiest way to use that flash with non-A contact lenses. There should be no need to set the mode to X. In M mode the shutter speed should be settable up to 1/180s. In other modes* with non-A glass the body should automagically set to 1/180s. The instructions are on page 25ff of the English user guide.

Set aperture on lens**
Set zoom, aperture, and ISO on the flash
Check that the range is appropriate
Shoot!

Steve

* Mode limitations are the same for the lens type in general.
** For lenses having A contacts with the aperture ring on the "A" position, the flash will signal the body what aperture to set

stevebrot · 08-14-2015, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Or just use "A" series MF lenses in the "A" mode and you can use P-TTL flash.

Ironically, Auto flash may work somewhat better than P-TTL for some cases (e.g. high ISO with wide aperture) with A-series lenses.

Steve

Billk · 08-15-2015, 01:56 AM

I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera.

**clackers** · 08-15-2015, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Billk

I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera.

Buy a cable, a second flash or a third-party wireless system. :-(

**UncleVanya** · 08-15-2015, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by Billk

I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera.

Use an Compatible wireless master flash or a set of wireless triggers or a cable as Clackers said. This site while outdated in some ways has good info on wireless modes Wireless - Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison

quant2325 · 08-15-2015, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Billk

I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera.

What they said above plus this: You can buy a cheap cable on eBay and use the AF540 off camera in daylight (for portraits or whatever) shooting with the HSS setting at any shutter speed (not limited to 1/180 sec.). I use the cheap Yongnuo flash triggers and they work fine, but they won't work with High Speed Sync.

**Lowell Goudge** · 08-16-2015, 01:34 PM

Get ann *istD.

It can shoot in TTL and P-TTL mode, then get any flash that can run in TTL, this includes the AF 54FGZ, not sure about the 360, as well as older AF 500 FTZ

Works great and no secreting arund with manual flash calculations etc.

08-14-2015, 07:27 PM	#1
Dr. Zee New Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 22	K-3 II, external flash with manual lenses I'm very new to flash photography. I recently upgraded to the K-3 II and I'm trying to learn my AF-360FGZ flash unit. I've been using, and enjoying, a Takumar 50mm and thought I'd also try using it with an external flash. So I've been stumbling around with these settings, and I wanted to run them by someone to make sure I'm not making my life unnecessarily difficult. Here are the rules of an M lens, an external flash, and the K-3 II as I currently understand them: No TTL. Though the flash fires, and it says P-TTL on the unit, it fires at full intensity every time. Changing the EV on the flash seems to have no effect. This can be compensated for by stopping down the lens aperture or ISO, at the expense of the ambient exposure. The flash can only switch to Auto Mode when the camera is on M or X. Shutter speed is fixed at 180 or less, can only be controlled in M, and then still not set above 180. Sensitivity and EV can still be controlled on camera in most camera modes, but shutter is, for the most part,locked. When the flash is in Automatic mode, there is no direct EV compensation setting on the flash. Flash output can only be reduced by entering higher ISO or stopping up the aperture on the flash unit. In a dynamic, low light setting with lots of people around, I can't stop and futz with my flash and camera to this degree, so if I'm correct about all these rules, it'll spell doom for my affair with Manual lenses. Last edited by Dr. Zee; 08-14-2015 at 07:40 PM.

08-14-2015, 09:25 PM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Not a Number If the unit has auto mode then shoot as we did in the film era with auto flashes. Yes, the AF360FGZ has auto mode and that is probably the easiest way to use that flash with non-A contact lenses. There should be no need to set the mode to X. In M mode the shutter speed should be settable up to 1/180s. In other modes* with non-A glass the body should automagically set to 1/180s. The instructions are on page 25ff of the English user guide. Set aperture on lens** Set zoom, aperture, and ISO on the flash Check that the range is appropriate Shoot! Steve * Mode limitations are the same for the lens type in general. ** For lenses having A contacts with the aperture ring on the "A" position, the flash will signal the body what aperture to set Last edited by stevebrot; 08-14-2015 at 09:39 PM.

08-15-2015, 11:01 PM	#8
quant2325 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 205	Originally posted by Billk I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera. What they said above plus this: You can buy a cheap cable on eBay and use the AF540 off camera in daylight (for portraits or whatever) shooting with the HSS setting at any shutter speed (not limited to 1/180 sec.). I use the cheap Yongnuo flash triggers and they work fine, but they won't work with High Speed Sync. Last edited by quant2325; 08-15-2015 at 11:06 PM.

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08-14-2015, 07:50 PM	#2
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	According to the Accessory Database in full manual mode the flash has six power settings. Instead of changing f-stop or ISO you can change the power setting. If the unit has auto mode then shoot as we did in the film era with auto flashes. Set the camera to X mode which will set the shutter to flash sync speed. Set the f-stop as indicated by the flash unit or instructions - as long as you shoot within the distance range for the auto setting all you have to do is worry about focus and composition. You can always cheat outside the range (within limits) by changing the f-stop or ISO. That's what I do when using an old Sunpak auto flash with MF and AF lenses. Or just use "A" series MF lenses in the "A" mode and you can use P-TTL flash.

08-14-2015, 09:41 PM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Not a Number Or just use "A" series MF lenses in the "A" mode and you can use P-TTL flash. Ironically, Auto flash may work somewhat better than P-TTL for some cases (e.g. high ISO with wide aperture) with A-series lenses. Steve

08-15-2015, 01:56 AM	#5
Billk Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Posts: 349	I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera.

08-15-2015, 03:45 AM	#6
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Billk I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera. Buy a cable, a second flash or a third-party wireless system. :-(

08-15-2015, 06:52 AM	#7
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,454	Originally posted by Billk I have ordered a K3ii and have an AF540FGZ. What are my options for using that flash off-camera with the K3ii? I currently have a K7 and have been using the pop up flash to fire the AF540 off-camera. Use an Compatible wireless master flash or a set of wireless triggers or a cable as Clackers said. This site while outdated in some ways has good info on wireless modes Wireless - Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison

08-16-2015, 01:34 PM	#9
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Get ann *istD. It can shoot in TTL and P-TTL mode, then get any flash that can run in TTL, this includes the AF 54FGZ, not sure about the 360, as well as older AF 500 FTZ Works great and no secreting arund with manual flash calculations etc.