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02-02-2016, 12:49 PM   #16
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Honestly, I'd avoid doing a wet clean of the sensor yourself. It's not an expensive job to get done professionally, and if *they* screw up, they are liable for the repair. If you screw it up, uhm....

Now that you've given it a good blow with the blower, can you take a picture of a white wall (long exposure indoors), with a small aperture (say F11 at ISO100). Can you see any black splodges? If not, don't bother trying to clean it any further (it's good enough). When it comes to the viewfinder, it's a question of whether you care that much. It's not a new camera, so some dust over time is part of the course really. If the dust affects the pictures you take, then it's worth dealing with it. If however it's just in the viewfinder, it's probably not worth it.

---------- Post added 02-02-16 at 07:52 PM ----------

/edit ok, so I just noticed the picture (my internet is slow at the moment). Make sure when you are using the rocket blower, the opening is pointed downwards! That should stop more dust falling onto the sensor...

02-02-2016, 02:31 PM   #17
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rob,

Thanks for the comments. I found a person that does the sensor cleaning and he's near me (he does it professionally), but I'm still mulling over what to do.

The thing is that I avoided getting a DSLR for years, and I got the K-r, used, off of Ebay, as a kind of way to "dip my toe in the water". I'd always wanted to get a DSLR because like I said earlier, I have a ton of "legacy" Pentax M42 and K mount lenses that I had "collected" when I was using the film cameras, and I wanted to see how well they worked with a DSLR.

So this (getting the K-r) was a kind of "experiment", and now I'm thinking that it would be a good thing to try to get this cleaned up myself. If I mess up, it's not a terrible thing (I know I'd hate it, but it really wouldn't be too bad).

On the other hand, I WOULD like to get it cleaned up, which make me lean towards getting that fellow to do the cleaning...

I'm kind of more leaning towards trying myself though ....

Anyway, so now I've blown, which got rid of some but moved some around, and further blowing doesn't seem like it'd doing any improvement.

What are my options?

I've been googling around and a couple of things:

- Using a sensor brush?

- Using the Pentax sensor cleaning kit (the gel stick)?

- Full-on wet cleaning (eclipse on a swab)?

I think that the above is in the order that I'd try things (and also from lower to higher risk)?

Any other options/thoughts?

Thanks,
Jim
02-02-2016, 03:33 PM   #18
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As it is a new to you camera I would get it professionally cleaned. At my previous job we used Nikon D1X cameras which needed to be cleaned on a daily basis, we do work in a very dusty environment but moving up to the D200 it went to cleaning once or twice a year. I have only used the Arctic Butterfly to clean the sensor in my K-r. Think of it as paying for a tune up when buying a used car. Enjoy th eK-r as it is a great little camera
02-02-2016, 04:46 PM   #19
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
You are just being too paranoid. Basics of sensor cleaning is to try the least intrusive like the rocket blower, on to a canned air (much more powerful, precisely directed flow of air - a very small chance of the liquid propellant coming out mostly due to user mistake), and if all this fails to clean the sensor, it's wet cleaning with sensor swabs. I've cleaned my K20D and K-5 with Eclipse Sensor Swabs with good results. Once the dust has been removed, periodically blowing the sensor with the rocket blower or canned air (I use the latter), will keep the sensor dust-free.
Well considering the forums are viewed by experienced and novice DSLR users alike.. it is better to err on the side of caution. It takes just one uncareful person to jam a qtip or their finger on the sensor, create a scratch(es) and then blame the messenger for the damage the uncareful person caused.

02-02-2016, 05:03 PM   #20
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mee,

I'm trying to be careful (and learning about what to avoid). The comments here have been helpful for that so I would not "blame the messenger".

Jim
02-02-2016, 05:05 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by ohaya Quote
mee,

I'm trying to be careful (and learning about what to avoid). The comments here have been helpful for that so I would not "blame the messenger".

oh no worries.. that comment wasn't aimed at you. We have a lot of lurkers on this forum. Never know who is watching.
02-02-2016, 05:38 PM   #22
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Those spots are dust particles, either on the back of the lens, on the sensor (most likely), or the front of the lens (least likely to be noticeable).
I didn't read all the posts in this thread, but here goes from step 1:
-do not touch sensor, as it is easy to scratch it or to leave oily residue or even small cotton strings (from Qtips or pads)
-Did you try the in-camera function of Dust removal sensor shake? You should begin with that. You can even set it up for the camera to run this function on startup/shutdown
-You can set the Sensor cleaning to open the mirror and shutter blades. This exposes the sensor. Make sure you have full camera battery when you attempt this
-Do not blow on the sensor with your mouth, as it contains lots of small spittle. Some people use canned air, but most people recommend against this, as it can freeze and cause condensation and big problems.
-Rocket blower is a good solution, but it is not perfect. In worst case it will only move the dust around, or not remove it at all. In fact, if blower is full of dust, it can even introduce dust! With a camera as old as a (used) K-r, I would expect quite some dust accumulation. Mine has it as well. As do my newer cameras, even the mirrorless. As long as lenses can be exchanged, dust will get in there eventually
-Dust is not always visible. It is most visible on blue skies or uniform backgrounds. It is also more visible if you use narrow aperture (high f-number) and wide angle lenses, focused near.
-Dust on the front of the lens, on the back of the lens can also be seen in photos. Especially on the back of the lens. Be careful how you clean this; rocket blower is a good first option
-Dust in viewfinder or on top of mirror will not be seen in photos, as the mirror moves out of the way. But the dust from these places can travel down and into the mirror box and even on the sensor.
-Pentax sells a nice sensor cleaning thing that looks like a lollipop. It attracts dust using static. It is better than just a rocket blower, but probably not as thorough as wet cleaning.
-If you go for wet cleaning, make sure you write down and remember which brand and what type solution was used. This is because sometimes wet cleaning can leave some residue, and using another type of wet cleaning later can cause a reaction (repair shop told me about this)
-Getting camera professionally cleaned by a reputable and trusted shop can be great. For around $50 they will clean the viewfinder, mirror boy, sensor.. and if something goes wrong, its their responsibility.
-Photos will look nice and vibrant and clear after a good cleaning. But don't overdo it with frequent cleanings.
-Dust is unavoidable, as there are moving parts in the camera that churn air around the insides, and the digital sensor is statically charged/ attracts dust. Only things you can do to minimize this is if you have a WR camera and use WR lenses, take care when you exchange lenses, point the camera down. I read somewhere that a lot of the dust that enters the camera comes from the person changing lenses - tiny pieces of skin, hair, dust on our clothes, etc.

I think this is the Pentax sensor cleaning accessory: https://www.pentaxforums.com/accessoryreviews/pentax-image-sensor-cleaning-kit-o-ick1.html

So your options are a) ignore dust, live with it; use lenses, apertures, and composition in such a way to hide dust. No more photos of clear blue skies
b) use dust removal function
c) rocket blower
d) O-ICK1 cleaning accessory
e) wet wiping it yourself
d) getting camera professionally cleaned
e) buying new camera and enjoy it until dust settles in that one as well

Good luck

Last edited by Na Horuk; 02-02-2016 at 05:46 PM.
02-02-2016, 05:58 PM   #23
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Original Poster
Na Horuk,

I exchanged lenses earlier to figure out if the problem was on the lens... conclusion was problem remained after switching lens, so the problem is in/on the camera, i.e., probably on sensor.

Use rocket blower - that reduce spots I think, and move them around so i now have new spots and older spots are gone/moved.

I have ordered the Pentax gel stick cleaner - waiting for that. Also have a sensor brush coming from Amazon which will probably arrive before the gel stick cleaner. I haven't decided if I will try web cleaning if all of these fail. I think if it gets to that, I'll go get the camera cleaned professionally.

So right now, my "plan" is:

- Try the sensor brush and if that doesn't do it
- Try the gel stick, and if that doesn't do it
- Take it to the sensor cleaning guy.

BTW, i don't know if I'm imagining it, but I just noticed something. I made 2 shots: one of a wall, and one pointing the camera at a light fixture on our kitchen ceiling. I will attach the 2 pics, but I *think* that with the wall shot, there was 2 spots in the upper-right corner, but in the shot of the kitchen ceiling, those spots were gone???

Is it possible that the spots will disappear depending on orientation of the camera (pointed to wall vs. pointed to ceiling) and then return again?

First pic is the wall, 2nd pic is the ceiling light fixture.

Jim

Attached Images
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PENTAX K-r  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-r  Photo 

Last edited by ohaya; 02-02-2016 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Posted wrong pics
02-02-2016, 06:00 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Well considering the forums are viewed by experienced and novice DSLR users alike.. it is better to err on the side of caution. It takes just one uncareful person to jam a qtip or their finger on the sensor, create a scratch(es) and then blame the messenger for the damage the uncareful person caused.
That is why I recommend doing the cleaning procedure from the least obtrusive method and progressing if the said step doesn't resolve the problem of dust particles on the sensor.

I can't and won't be responsible if a careless and thoughtless PF member destroys their camera because he or she do not bother to read things through before attempting to clean the camera's sensor. I am only stating my experience in dealing with the same problem of dust on the sensor and the steps taken to rectify it. I have had 4 DSLR and 3 MILC, out of those only the K20D and K-5 needed wet cleaning to resolve the issue, the others only needed some healthy blasts with a canned air to remove the dust particles from the sensor.

The sensor is not as delicate as some people think, there is a piece of glass or filter in front of the sensor and that is what you are cleaning. My K10D which has permanently been converted to Infra-red (IR), had it's AA filter removed and replaced with 720nm IR filter cut to size. For all intent and purpose, now my K10D has an IR sensor. Glass lens filters can be cleaned very easily with an anti-static microfibre cloth without damage - a sensor that's being swabbed very gently in one direction with a slightly dampened lint-free cloth is far more benign act than cleaning a lens filter with a microfibre cloth.
02-02-2016, 06:04 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
That is why I recommend doing the cleaning procedure from the least obtrusive method and progressing if the said step doesn't resolve the problem of dust particles on the sensor.

I can't and won't be responsible if a careless and thoughtless PF member destroys their camera because he or she do not bother to read things through before attempting to clean the camera's sensor. I am only stating my experience in dealing with the same problem of dust on the sensor and the steps taken to rectify it. I have had 4 DSLR and 3 MILC, out of those only the K20D and K-5 needed wet cleaning to resolve the issue, the others only needed some healthy blasts with a canned air to remove the dust particles from the sensor.

The sensor is not as delicate as some people think, there is a piece of glass or filter in front of the sensor and that is what you are cleaning. My K10D which has permanently been converted to Infra-red (IR), had it's AA filter removed and replaced with 720nm IR filter cut to size. For all intent and purpose, now my K10D has an IR sensor. Glass lens filters can be cleaned very easily with an anti-static microfibre cloth without damage - a sensor that's being swabbed very gently in one direction with a slightly dampened lint-free cloth is far more benign act than cleaning a lens filter with a microfibre cloth.


Hi,

Can I ask something: I keep reading to NOT use canned air, but you mentioned that you do use canned air? Is there a specific type of canned air that is safe to use on the sensor?
02-02-2016, 06:10 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ohaya Quote
Is it possible that the spots will disappear depending on orientation of the camera (pointed to wall vs. pointed to ceiling) and then return again?
Yes, but they won't return to the exact same spot. Mirror and shutter and SR move in there, so they can dislodge some dust, and then it can get re-attached somewhere else
QuoteOriginally posted by ohaya Quote
I keep reading to NOT use canned air, but you mentioned that you do use canned air? Is there a specific type of canned air that is safe to use on the sensor?
Some people even had success with a vacuum, but I shudder at the thought. I would not use canned air, even despite some success stories I have read online
QuoteOriginally posted by ohaya Quote
- Try the sensor brush and if that doesn't do it - Try the gel stick, and if that doesn't do it - Take it to the sensor cleaning guy.
Sounds like a good plan. Be sure to read the instructions that come with the brush, there is a correct way of doing it.
02-02-2016, 06:20 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Yes, but they won't return to the exact same spot. Mirror and shutter and SR move in there, so they can dislodge some dust, and then it can get re-attached somewhere else

Some people even had success with a vacuum, but I shudder at the thought. I would not use canned air, even despite some success stories I have read online

Sounds like a good plan. Be sure to read the instructions that come with the brush, there is a correct way of doing it.
I haven't gotten it yet, but yes, I will. I think it's like: Use blower to blow the brush to get rid of dust and to charge it with static then brush lightly... Something along those lines.
02-02-2016, 06:53 PM   #28
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Just be careful what you do with those dust specks, there may be some perfectly happy people living on them...

Horton Hears a Who! Trailer - IMDb
02-02-2016, 07:54 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ohaya Quote
Hi,

Can I ask something: I keep reading to NOT use canned air, but you mentioned that you do use canned air? Is there a specific type of canned air that is safe to use on the sensor?
If you shake the canned air or use it upside down there is a chance that the liquid propellant may come out instead of 'air'. I tested whether shaking the can will make the liquid propellant shoot out or not by shaking the can as briskly as I would to prepare a paint bomb before spray painting. I shot it against my screen door window and the liquid propellant shot out momentarily before air replaced it. As for the propellant, it evapourated within a second or two without leaving any trace behind. Oh, and all canned air is basically the same.

I use canned air while holding the can straight up and down (left hand) with the camera sensor (right hand) in front of the nozzle. Intermittently pull on the trigger to release 2 or 3 sharp blasts while moving the camera around. I don't stick the nozzle of the canned air into the mirror box but stay about an inch or two in front of the camera, there is enough pressure to deliver a far greater volume of air than a Rocket Blower can. I couldn't tell you where my large rocket blower is - a small one is inside my camera bag - A canned air sits on the shelf with my camera gear.
02-02-2016, 08:14 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
If you shake the canned air or use it upside down there is a chance that the liquid propellant may come out instead of 'air'. I tested whether shaking the can will make the liquid propellant shoot out or not by shaking the can as briskly as I would to prepare a paint bomb before spray painting. I shot it against my screen door window and the liquid propellant shot out momentarily before air replaced it. As for the propellant, it evapourated within a second or two without leaving any trace behind. Oh, and all canned air is basically the same.

I use canned air while holding the can straight up and down (left hand) with the camera sensor (right hand) in front of the nozzle. Intermittently pull on the trigger to release 2 or 3 sharp blasts while moving the camera around. I don't stick the nozzle of the canned air into the mirror box but stay about an inch or two in front of the camera, there is enough pressure to deliver a far greater volume of air than a Rocket Blower can. I couldn't tell you where my large rocket blower is - a small one is inside my camera bag - A canned air sits on the shelf with my camera gear.
You are braver than I am at this point !!
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