How can I tell it's enough?

stein · 02-25-2016, 04:02 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TER-OR

Nice. The Yeti is similar to the Subaru Forester or maybe smaller?

Smaller. 2L diesel, 6 speed (manual gearbox) part of it was used to catch a reflection of a sunrise:

VisualDarkness · 02-25-2016, 04:46 PM

Join the single lens challenge! It cuts down your purchases to a maximum of 12 lenses a year.

**mattb123** · 02-25-2016, 04:52 PM

Easy. It's never enough!

Zephos · 02-25-2016, 05:23 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stein

Odd title for an odd question. I'm always "on the budget" so reducing expenses is always a subject in my book. Anyway, wanted to ask how will I know I don't need one more lens...
My first DSLR was Canon EOS 1100D (or Rebel T3 in US) and I had the 18-55mm kit lens plus a 70-300mm lens. As it was impossible for me to have a "practical all-rounder" and a DSLR (always having the wrong lens attached) I sold it and bought a Canon SX50HS prosumer. That was a few years ago. Now my finances allowed me to have both and I went for a Pentax camera. Bought the kit with the 18-55mm DAL lens and found two cheap Pentax 50mm lenses (one "A" and one "M", both f1.7) as it seemed that I need a better lens than the kit one. Shortly after that, I found a Sigma 28-300mm for a good price, then one more (new) Pentax DA 50mm f1.8 lens and of course, I thought I need a dedicated macro lens and now I'm waiting for a 90mm Tamron to arrive (purchased from a forum member).
To be honest, that seems to cover all my needs (not making money making pictures)... However, I realized I just keep reading reviews, browsing sites like ebay just as if my bag with them lenses isn't already crowded... Am I sick or I really need more lenses? Will it ever stop? Why do I feel that strange urge to buy another one? I didn't have that feeling with the Canon... Help? (before I waste all my money on something I don't need at all...)

It's not about having enough for me, it's about whether my current skill level and results can justify getting more stuff. For example, I made a rule for myself that I can't get a new camera until I have mastered using my K-50. That entails becoming a skilled photographer, getting good at using all the features, and getting good a post production too. Once I've done that and I have results to prove that I'm a serious photographer (in other words, I have impressed my wife enough to win her enthusiastic support) then I will let myself get a K-3. Once I have done that with the K-3 (and am financially secure) then I will think about the K-1.

With lenses, I tend to limit myself to only getting a new lens once in a given time period (usually a year, unless they are cheap). This ensures that I will actually get time to use the ones I have and learn what they and I can do together. In particular, I promised myself the D FA 100 Macro as a graduation present to me mesmo

. I can't wait to graduate in Spring of 2017 so I can get it! It motivates me to study hard so I don't graduate late for any reason, not that I need anymore motivation but the more the better I guess.

Hope these ideas help.

Rupert · 02-25-2016, 08:51 PM

Something is not right here....the thread has degenerated into car talk. Threads that degenerate on PForums are required, by Forum Rules, to degenerate into squirrel threads.......You car talkers can look for a reprimand from a Mod very soon, no doubt!

"Car talk...how ridiculous!"

Regards!

stein · 02-25-2016, 10:56 PM

Not going to talk about cars here as I'm not on the market looking for one and it's just something I need to get from point A to point B and back

The lenses, however, are not something I need to get somewhere

In another topic, I found out that I don't need to throw out my Sigma 28-300mm because of fringing as more than one person said that the photo filled with branches and black birds is actually very demanding for every lens and that can be fixed in post processing. I never used additional tools before, except for the crop, resize and maybe sharpen tool to modify the original image. I thought that was some sort of "cheating" and felt that I don't know how to cheat so I rather not. Obviously I don't have to throw away those images that are good but not perfect and that there are things that can be fixed. But again, that's a different topic and I'm not going there in this topic.
Actually, I got worried when I realized I keep looking at 600 and 800mm lenses... Funny thing, most of the people say those (cheap) lenses are not good and the Canon SX50HS goes all the way to something like 1200mm and actually makes very decent shots of things I can't even see with a naked eye... How come that a 600mm lens that cost the same as that Canon or so, can't be good at all? BTW, I consider my K-S1 to be a better camera than the prosumer, it should as it has a much greater potential to be an excellent tool for making good images.

**Alex645** · 02-26-2016, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by stein

the Canon SX50HS goes all the way to something like 1200mm and actually makes very decent shots of things I can't even see with a naked eye... How come that a 600mm lens that cost the same as that Canon or so, can't be good at all? BTW, I consider my K-S1 to be a better camera than the prosumer, it should as it has a much greater potential to be an excellent tool for making good images.

Keep in mind that the hybrid Canon SX50HS has a 6.17 x 4.55mm sensor compared to your K-S1 APS-C sensor which is 23.5mm x 15.6mm. So that 1200mm on the Canon is a much narrower field of view on a smaller sensor than your APS-C that is 12x larger. Imagine cropping and enlarging your shots to 1/12th the area on your K-S1 and that's what the Canon lens is essentially doing. NOT going to have the same resolution either in terms of the lens or the amount of pixels.

I do have a colleague that went on safari and wanted that kind of long reach, without the weight and size of a rocket launcher, so I recommended and she's super happy with a Nikon P900. Same sensor size as the Canon but 16MP instead of 12MP and the lens is an insane 24-2000mm. I was skeptical but it's quite impressive. But a DSLR like your K-S1, with a decent prime or zoom is still going to give you much better image quality than any all-in-one hybrid super zoom.

stein · 02-26-2016, 01:55 AM

I think I was clear when I said "decent shots". Far from excellent or from saying that they are better than what the K-S1 can make. After all, that was the main trigger to get a decent DSLR. Canon makes decent images but somehow, it's never quite that what I expect to get from my camera. I was lucky to get my K-S1 for only 300€ (the regular price in Hungary is around 540-550€) and I think that this was the best (new) camera I could get for that money. The price was reduced because they left with a very limited choice of body colours and I opted for blue as white-orange somehow doesn't match my taste and age. There are some things on K-S1 I don't like but I can live with that, just have to learn how to get the best shot in certain situations and that usually comes down to the lens I'm going to attach to it... Buying another lens just because I didn't get an image I was hoping for with a particular lens is insane, however, I do have that kind of weakness to reach out for other things if I'm not pleased with what I have, thus the topic I started.

TaoMaas · 02-26-2016, 06:14 AM

First off, you have three 50mm lenses. I'd keep one and sell the other two. That'll help defray some of your costs for your next lens. If it were me, I'd keep the A 50mm f1.7. But I tend to shoot static subjects. For what you enjoy shooting, autofocus might be better. However, I think the bigger issue is that you seem to enjoy the "becoming" more than the actual "doing". You pretty much said that in talking about your audio gear. You built a GREAT system, but now hardly listen to it. I think you just need to learn to find a comfortable balance between the hunt for great equipment and the reward of using it. Or maybe combine the two. Keep hunting for great deals, but then sell them so that you can afford to buy even more new things. lol

stein · 02-26-2016, 08:02 AM

I'll keep both my 50mm f1.7 lenses for a single reason: on the market (locally) they seem to be worth nothing or next to nothing, bought each of them for around 15€. Selling them wouldn't make any diference in my pocket. For the (new) DA 50mm f1.8 I paid flat 100€ plus around 10€ for shipping from Germany. That would be worth selling if I didn't find that one to be really good (locally they go for around 150€). Very sharp, bokeh just right and in short, everything I shot with that lens is just as it should be, just right

I might consider selling the 28-300mm Sigma if I ever find a better lens for a good price but I'm not thinking about it now. For now I'll rather think about picking the best software to deal with purple fringing it produces on demanding pictures... Again, bought it cheap and not much benefit from resale on a market where almost no one has a Pentax camera. Canon and Nikon did their homework well here. Even Sony cameras are not so popular here (except for compacts and some prosumers), not to mention Olympus and Minolta which are as rare as Pentax...

**Just1MoreDave** · 02-27-2016, 09:29 AM - **1 Like**

The Tamron 90mm macro that you're waiting for is an easy case. It's already a very competent lens which should do everything "as advertised" - 1:1 magnification, sharp, focus properly, etc. It'll be clear if you need a better lens to replace that, because the only possible upgrades are weather resistance or increased working distance. For now, use it a lot and don't think about replacing this lens.

A focal length you don't have is harder. You can crop an image to simulate a narrower field of view. That's just math. (BTW your Sigma is very likely to only be 270mm max, and that's only at infinity.) You can stitch two shots together to simulate a wider field of view, but the stitching program may modify the shots to get a better seam between them, so the image may have different distortion than a one lens shot. You can do some exposure calculations to see whether a wider aperture lens would get a workable shot. For example, I think the DA 18-55 only opens to f4 at 28mm. Say you take a shot at 28mm f4 and the shutter speed is too slow or ISO ends up too high and you get too much noise. It's easy to find a 28mm f2.8 prime lens, one stop faster. Would cutting the ISO or shutter speed in half have made that shot better enough?

Image quality is hardest. You'll see a really awesome shot taken with an $800 lens and want that. Of course, some people can take an awesome shot with anything, and people rarely post their terrible, failed or unprocessed shots. And despite what we say here, a lot of shots don't rely on the reason the lens is $800. Make sure you can do all the other stuff first: proper exposure, composition, lighting and focus. Make sure you'll use the lens. Then it's a smaller risk. In my case, I had seven or eight 55mm lenses (and a lot of 50s too) before I got a great deal on a DA* 55mm f1.4. I know the DA* is "better" in many small ways. I still don't need it, but I like it for most 55mm shots. It wouldn't suddenly give anyone the ability or desire to shoot at 55mm.

stein · 02-28-2016, 05:00 AM

That Tamron 90mm lens is the most expensive lens I (will) have. I had no doubt should I buy one or not (for the price)... I tried to make good macro shots before, but most of the shots I made were not what I expected to achieve. Some were actually very good but most of the attempts ended up with images that are simply bad. Once it gets here and the weather permits, I'll invest the time and effort to learn how to get the best out of it

The weather is just bad here now, everything is looking gray and washed out and even though I carry my bag with the camera and all the lenses I have, I rarely feel the urge to record the moment as it doesn't happen... There is no lens that can make a good shot if there's nothing to shoot... I spent a few hours outside today and nothing caught my eye...

**sergysergy** · 02-28-2016, 08:32 AM

there is no antidote

Rupert · 02-28-2016, 08:49 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stein

There is no lens that can make a good shot if there's nothing to shoot... I spent a few hours outside today and nothing caught my eye...

Lookin' down your way, it does look pretty dark and gloomy down there.

Otis advises that if you will PM him a shipping address he will send you a crate of squirrels to perk things up. He guarantees your boredom will end quickly!

Otis Disclaimer: Not responsible for care, feeding or housing for shipped squirrels. Not responsible for destruction of property, injury or death caused by said squirrels. In layman's terms.......You are on your own!

reeftool · 02-28-2016, 11:30 AM

Our photography is always evolving. Different things catch our eye, new subjects and interests, and often we discover that while adequate, what we have just doesn't do the job as well we like. That's why we will always be adding to our lens collection and also other things like flash, tripods, etc. The list goes on. We joke about LBA but it all a natural result of growing in our favorite pastime.

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02-25-2016, 04:02 PM - 1 Like	#16
stein Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Subotica Photos: Gallery Posts: 235 Original Poster	Originally posted by TER-OR Nice. The Yeti is similar to the Subaru Forester or maybe smaller? Smaller. 2L diesel, 6 speed (manual gearbox) part of it was used to catch a reflection of a sunrise:

02-25-2016, 04:46 PM	#17
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Join the single lens challenge! It cuts down your purchases to a maximum of 12 lenses a year.

02-25-2016, 04:52 PM	#18
mattb123 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Colorado High Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,872	Easy. It's never enough!

02-25-2016, 05:23 PM - 1 Like	#19
Zephos Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Albums Posts: 341	Originally posted by stein Odd title for an odd question. I'm always "on the budget" so reducing expenses is always a subject in my book. Anyway, wanted to ask how will I know I don't need one more lens... My first DSLR was Canon EOS 1100D (or Rebel T3 in US) and I had the 18-55mm kit lens plus a 70-300mm lens. As it was impossible for me to have a "practical all-rounder" and a DSLR (always having the wrong lens attached) I sold it and bought a Canon SX50HS prosumer. That was a few years ago. Now my finances allowed me to have both and I went for a Pentax camera. Bought the kit with the 18-55mm DAL lens and found two cheap Pentax 50mm lenses (one "A" and one "M", both f1.7) as it seemed that I need a better lens than the kit one. Shortly after that, I found a Sigma 28-300mm for a good price, then one more (new) Pentax DA 50mm f1.8 lens and of course, I thought I need a dedicated macro lens and now I'm waiting for a 90mm Tamron to arrive (purchased from a forum member). To be honest, that seems to cover all my needs (not making money making pictures)... However, I realized I just keep reading reviews, browsing sites like ebay just as if my bag with them lenses isn't already crowded... Am I sick or I really need more lenses? Will it ever stop? Why do I feel that strange urge to buy another one? I didn't have that feeling with the Canon... Help? (before I waste all my money on something I don't need at all...) It's not about having enough for me, it's about whether my current skill level and results can justify getting more stuff. For example, I made a rule for myself that I can't get a new camera until I have mastered using my K-50. That entails becoming a skilled photographer, getting good at using all the features, and getting good a post production too. Once I've done that and I have results to prove that I'm a serious photographer (in other words, I have impressed my wife enough to win her enthusiastic support) then I will let myself get a K-3. Once I have done that with the K-3 (and am financially secure) then I will think about the K-1. With lenses, I tend to limit myself to only getting a new lens once in a given time period (usually a year, unless they are cheap). This ensures that I will actually get time to use the ones I have and learn what they and I can do together. In particular, I promised myself the D FA 100 Macro as a graduation present to me mesmo . I can't wait to graduate in Spring of 2017 so I can get it! It motivates me to study hard so I don't graduate late for any reason, not that I need anymore motivation but the more the better I guess. Hope these ideas help.

02-25-2016, 08:51 PM	#20
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Something is not right here....the thread has degenerated into car talk. Threads that degenerate on PForums are required, by Forum Rules, to degenerate into squirrel threads.......You car talkers can look for a reprimand from a Mod very soon, no doubt! "Car talk...how ridiculous!" Regards!

02-25-2016, 10:56 PM	#21
stein Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Subotica Photos: Gallery Posts: 235 Original Poster	Not going to talk about cars here as I'm not on the market looking for one and it's just something I need to get from point A to point B and back The lenses, however, are not something I need to get somewhere In another topic, I found out that I don't need to throw out my Sigma 28-300mm because of fringing as more than one person said that the photo filled with branches and black birds is actually very demanding for every lens and that can be fixed in post processing. I never used additional tools before, except for the crop, resize and maybe sharpen tool to modify the original image. I thought that was some sort of "cheating" and felt that I don't know how to cheat so I rather not. Obviously I don't have to throw away those images that are good but not perfect and that there are things that can be fixed. But again, that's a different topic and I'm not going there in this topic. Actually, I got worried when I realized I keep looking at 600 and 800mm lenses... Funny thing, most of the people say those (cheap) lenses are not good and the Canon SX50HS goes all the way to something like 1200mm and actually makes very decent shots of things I can't even see with a naked eye... How come that a 600mm lens that cost the same as that Canon or so, can't be good at all? BTW, I consider my K-S1 to be a better camera than the prosumer, it should as it has a much greater potential to be an excellent tool for making good images.

02-26-2016, 01:11 AM	#22
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by stein the Canon SX50HS goes all the way to something like 1200mm and actually makes very decent shots of things I can't even see with a naked eye... How come that a 600mm lens that cost the same as that Canon or so, can't be good at all? BTW, I consider my K-S1 to be a better camera than the prosumer, it should as it has a much greater potential to be an excellent tool for making good images. Keep in mind that the hybrid Canon SX50HS has a 6.17 x 4.55mm sensor compared to your K-S1 APS-C sensor which is 23.5mm x 15.6mm. So that 1200mm on the Canon is a much narrower field of view on a smaller sensor than your APS-C that is 12x larger. Imagine cropping and enlarging your shots to 1/12th the area on your K-S1 and that's what the Canon lens is essentially doing. NOT going to have the same resolution either in terms of the lens or the amount of pixels. I do have a colleague that went on safari and wanted that kind of long reach, without the weight and size of a rocket launcher, so I recommended and she's super happy with a Nikon P900. Same sensor size as the Canon but 16MP instead of 12MP and the lens is an insane 24-2000mm. I was skeptical but it's quite impressive. But a DSLR like your K-S1, with a decent prime or zoom is still going to give you much better image quality than any all-in-one hybrid super zoom.

02-26-2016, 01:55 AM	#23
stein Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Subotica Photos: Gallery Posts: 235 Original Poster	I think I was clear when I said "decent shots". Far from excellent or from saying that they are better than what the K-S1 can make. After all, that was the main trigger to get a decent DSLR. Canon makes decent images but somehow, it's never quite that what I expect to get from my camera. I was lucky to get my K-S1 for only 300€ (the regular price in Hungary is around 540-550€) and I think that this was the best (new) camera I could get for that money. The price was reduced because they left with a very limited choice of body colours and I opted for blue as white-orange somehow doesn't match my taste and age. There are some things on K-S1 I don't like but I can live with that, just have to learn how to get the best shot in certain situations and that usually comes down to the lens I'm going to attach to it... Buying another lens just because I didn't get an image I was hoping for with a particular lens is insane, however, I do have that kind of weakness to reach out for other things if I'm not pleased with what I have, thus the topic I started.

02-26-2016, 06:14 AM	#24
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	First off, you have three 50mm lenses. I'd keep one and sell the other two. That'll help defray some of your costs for your next lens. If it were me, I'd keep the A 50mm f1.7. But I tend to shoot static subjects. For what you enjoy shooting, autofocus might be better. However, I think the bigger issue is that you seem to enjoy the "becoming" more than the actual "doing". You pretty much said that in talking about your audio gear. You built a GREAT system, but now hardly listen to it. I think you just need to learn to find a comfortable balance between the hunt for great equipment and the reward of using it. Or maybe combine the two. Keep hunting for great deals, but then sell them so that you can afford to buy even more new things. lol

02-26-2016, 08:02 AM	#25
stein Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Subotica Photos: Gallery Posts: 235 Original Poster	I'll keep both my 50mm f1.7 lenses for a single reason: on the market (locally) they seem to be worth nothing or next to nothing, bought each of them for around 15€. Selling them wouldn't make any diference in my pocket. For the (new) DA 50mm f1.8 I paid flat 100€ plus around 10€ for shipping from Germany. That would be worth selling if I didn't find that one to be really good (locally they go for around 150€). Very sharp, bokeh just right and in short, everything I shot with that lens is just as it should be, just right I might consider selling the 28-300mm Sigma if I ever find a better lens for a good price but I'm not thinking about it now. For now I'll rather think about picking the best software to deal with purple fringing it produces on demanding pictures... Again, bought it cheap and not much benefit from resale on a market where almost no one has a Pentax camera. Canon and Nikon did their homework well here. Even Sony cameras are not so popular here (except for compacts and some prosumers), not to mention Olympus and Minolta which are as rare as Pentax...

02-27-2016, 09:29 AM - 1 Like	#26
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	The Tamron 90mm macro that you're waiting for is an easy case. It's already a very competent lens which should do everything "as advertised" - 1:1 magnification, sharp, focus properly, etc. It'll be clear if you need a better lens to replace that, because the only possible upgrades are weather resistance or increased working distance. For now, use it a lot and don't think about replacing this lens. A focal length you don't have is harder. You can crop an image to simulate a narrower field of view. That's just math. (BTW your Sigma is very likely to only be 270mm max, and that's only at infinity.) You can stitch two shots together to simulate a wider field of view, but the stitching program may modify the shots to get a better seam between them, so the image may have different distortion than a one lens shot. You can do some exposure calculations to see whether a wider aperture lens would get a workable shot. For example, I think the DA 18-55 only opens to f4 at 28mm. Say you take a shot at 28mm f4 and the shutter speed is too slow or ISO ends up too high and you get too much noise. It's easy to find a 28mm f2.8 prime lens, one stop faster. Would cutting the ISO or shutter speed in half have made that shot better enough? Image quality is hardest. You'll see a really awesome shot taken with an $800 lens and want that. Of course, some people can take an awesome shot with anything, and people rarely post their terrible, failed or unprocessed shots. And despite what we say here, a lot of shots don't rely on the reason the lens is $800. Make sure you can do all the other stuff first: proper exposure, composition, lighting and focus. Make sure you'll use the lens. Then it's a smaller risk. In my case, I had seven or eight 55mm lenses (and a lot of 50s too) before I got a great deal on a DA* 55mm f1.4. I know the DA* is "better" in many small ways. I still don't need it, but I like it for most 55mm shots. It wouldn't suddenly give anyone the ability or desire to shoot at 55mm.

02-28-2016, 05:00 AM	#27
stein Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Subotica Photos: Gallery Posts: 235 Original Poster	That Tamron 90mm lens is the most expensive lens I (will) have. I had no doubt should I buy one or not (for the price)... I tried to make good macro shots before, but most of the shots I made were not what I expected to achieve. Some were actually very good but most of the attempts ended up with images that are simply bad. Once it gets here and the weather permits, I'll invest the time and effort to learn how to get the best out of it The weather is just bad here now, everything is looking gray and washed out and even though I carry my bag with the camera and all the lenses I have, I rarely feel the urge to record the moment as it doesn't happen... There is no lens that can make a good shot if there's nothing to shoot... I spent a few hours outside today and nothing caught my eye...

02-28-2016, 08:32 AM	#28
sergysergy Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,171	there is no antidote

02-28-2016, 08:49 AM - 1 Like	#29
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by stein There is no lens that can make a good shot if there's nothing to shoot... I spent a few hours outside today and nothing caught my eye... Lookin' down your way, it does look pretty dark and gloomy down there. Otis advises that if you will PM him a shipping address he will send you a crate of squirrels to perk things up. He guarantees your boredom will end quickly! Otis Disclaimer: Not responsible for care, feeding or housing for shipped squirrels. Not responsible for destruction of property, injury or death caused by said squirrels. In layman's terms.......You are on your own!

02-28-2016, 11:30 AM	#30
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	Our photography is always evolving. Different things catch our eye, new subjects and interests, and often we discover that while adequate, what we have just doesn't do the job as well we like. That's why we will always be adding to our lens collection and also other things like flash, tripods, etc. The list goes on. We joke about LBA but it all a natural result of growing in our favorite pastime.