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05-10-2016, 10:47 AM   #1
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Pentax K1 / K3 Live View Depth of Field Preview

Does anyone know what happens if you operate the depth of field preview slider when in live view ( set for OPTICAL Preview not digital) on the K3 & K1?

With the K5 , the live view behaves like the optical viewfinder..it goes dark as the live view adjusts to the aperture. Unfortunately, just like the VF, it's too dark to effectively judge the DoF at small/med apertures. I was wondering if this the same with the K1 / K3.

What I'm hoping for is the way live view is implemented in Canon bodies. These show the true DoF but, crucially, it shows at the brightest aperture. So it's possible to actually see what's in focus before taking the shot. It also shows the DoF change as the fstop is changed in real time. I don't know how this is done but it's genuinely useful.

Can anyone tell me if live view's been changed from the K5 to the K3 / K1 so it's possible to see true DoF with the live view still visible at full aperture?

It's the K1 I'm really interested in but I would've thought it'd be the same as with the K3.

Thanks

05-10-2016, 11:12 AM   #2
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In M mode you get real-time exposure preview, so the lens is always stopped down to the selected aperture. In other modes, the camera seeks to keep the LV image well-lit, but you can use the DOF preview button to stop the lens down to the selected aperture.

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05-10-2016, 12:08 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
In M mode you get real-time exposure preview, so the lens is always stopped down to the selected aperture. In other modes, the camera seeks to keep the LV image well-lit, but you can use the DOF preview button to stop the lens down to the selected aperture.
Is this with the K-1? The behavior with my K-3 (firmware v. 1.11) is somewhat different. In all modes, M included, the lens may stop down in live view in response to the amount of light in the frame. The DOF preview button is required to stop the lens down to the set value. Aperture is wide open during AF and with magnification. Real time exposure preview is handled by adjusting screen brightness.

At least, I think that is what is happening...


Steve
05-10-2016, 12:09 PM   #4
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I just tried this on my K-3 and I can confirm that in Av mode when you use DOF preview the lens stops down and the LCD remains at the same brightness - by increasing gain on the signal. At f/22 this introduced a ton of noise on the screen but the overall brightness remained the same and the DOF was easy to see.

---------- Post added 05-10-16 at 03:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Is this with the K-1? The behavior with my K-3 (firmware v. 1.11) is somewhat different. In all modes, M included, the lens may stop down in live view in response to the amount of light in the frame. The DOF preview button is required to stop the lens down to the set value. Aperture is wide open during AF and with magnification. Real time exposure preview is handled by adjusting screen brightness.

At least, I think that is what is happening...


Steve
K-50 and K-3 both have some odd behavior around Live View - sometimes Live View stops down to f/4 or so, sometimes not at all. I have almost given up trying to decipher why and when it happens. I had wide open today so I couldn't verify if using DOF Preview would reduce the stopped down condition when it is engaged to help with focus or if it just stays at a certain f/stop in some cases and won't open further.

05-10-2016, 01:24 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Is this with the K-1? The behavior with my K-3 (firmware v. 1.11) is somewhat different. In all modes, M included, the lens may stop down in live view in response to the amount of light in the frame. The DOF preview button is required to stop the lens down to the set value. Aperture is wide open during AF and with magnification. Real time exposure preview is handled by adjusting screen brightness.

At least, I think that is what is happening...


Steve
I think They changed the M mode behavior starting on the 645Z, so yes what I wrote applies to the K-1 but not the K-3.

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05-10-2016, 01:54 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I think They changed the M mode behavior starting on the 645Z, so yes what I wrote applies to the K-1 but not the K-3.
Mine was in Av mode - my mistake I did not mean to imply otherwise. I can check again later.
05-10-2016, 02:22 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
In M mode you get real-time exposure preview, so the lens is always stopped down to the selected aperture. In other modes, the lens is always wide-open you need to use the DOF preview button to stop it down.
I don't get real time exposure preview on the K5 in manual or Av modes. I take it that the K3/K1 is different?

---------- Post added 05-10-16 at 10:26 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I just tried this on my K-3 and I can confirm that in Av mode when you use DOF preview the lens stops down and the LCD remains at the same brightness - by increasing gain on the signal. At f/22 this introduced a ton of noise on the screen but the overall brightness remained the same and the DOF was easy to see.

---------- Post added 05-10-16 at 03:11 PM ----------



K-50 and K-3 both have some odd behavior around Live View - sometimes Live View stops down to f/4 or so, sometimes not at all. I have almost given up trying to decipher why and when it happens. I had wide open today so I couldn't verify if using DOF Preview would reduce the stopped down condition when it is engaged to help with focus or if it just stays at a certain f/stop in some cases and won't open further.
This is what I want from the live view function..to see the depth of field but with the screen brightness remaining the same. The K5 does not do this. I take it from this that the K3 (& probably the K1) is different. But are you saying that it doesn't do it every time..& that you're not sure why?
05-10-2016, 03:44 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by sdgreen Quote
I don't get real time exposure preview on the K5 in manual or Av modes. I take it that the K3/K1 is different?
You'll only get a real-time preview in M mode. In other modes, the camera seeks to keep the LV image sufficiently lit.


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05-10-2016, 04:19 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by sdgreen Quote
I don't get real time exposure preview on the K5 in manual or Av modes. I take it that the K3/K1 is different?

---------- Post added 05-10-16 at 10:26 PM ----------


This is what I want from the live view function..to see the depth of field but with the screen brightness remaining the same. The K5 does not do this. I take it from this that the K3 (& probably the K1) is different. But are you saying that it doesn't do it every time..& that you're not sure why?

I did not test in manual mode. Not sure yet. I also was remarking on the fact that within the same mode Av for example, the behavior of the aperture isn't always the same. Sometimes live view stops down the lens to f4 or more without any clear pattern. We think excess light causes it. What I haven't been able to determine is if optical depth of field preview will open the lens up and show correct DOF when you want that.
05-10-2016, 08:21 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by sdgreen Quote
I take it from this that the K3 (& probably the K1) is different. But are you saying that it doesn't do it every time..& that you're not sure why?
The K-3 in live view does not stop the lens down to the set aperture in any mode. Screen brightness, OTOH, follows the apparent exposure (dimmer when underexposed, brighter when overexposed) by adjusting the screen brightness.

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
What I haven't been able to determine is if optical depth of field preview will open the lens up and show correct DOF when you want that.
Yes...With live view on the K-3, you must use the DOF prevew to view DOF with the lens stopped down.

According to Adam, the K-1 behaves differently than the K-3.


Steve
05-19-2016, 10:17 AM   #11
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Question answered

I was a little confused after looking at all the answers, so the only way was to go into a shop & play with a K3.

A K3 in live view definitely keeps the lcd screen at set brightness when the preview button is activated - whatever the aperture. It doesn't darken in the same way as the viewfinder does. I assume the camera automatically brightens the screen to compensate. This makes it genuinely useful for viewing depth of field

This is a change from the K5. Here the LV screen darkens when the preview button is activated, so even though it shows DoF it's too dark to be useful as aperture gets smaller.

It's not quite as good as Canon's implementation which actually shows the DoF alter on the lcd as the f no is changed (with the K3 if the aperture is changed the preview button must be pressed again to view the DoF change) but it's good enough for my purposes.

I'm suprised the K3 instructions don't mention this as it's a very very useful feature.

On that note, I find the K3 / K1 manuals to be briefer than the K5 - definitely not as helpful.

Thanks to everyone who replied on this

---------- Post added 05-19-16 at 06:18 PM ----------

I would assume the K1 would also have this feature
05-19-2016, 06:22 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by sdgreen Quote
A K3 in live view definitely keeps the lcd screen at set brightness when the preview button is activated - whatever the aperture. It doesn't darken in the same way as the viewfinder does. I assume the camera automatically brightens the screen to compensate. This makes it genuinely useful for viewing depth of field
Yes, sorry for the confusion. I should have included the part about the camera brightening the screen.


Steve
05-20-2016, 09:56 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
You'll only get a real-time preview in M mode. In other modes, the camera seeks to keep the LV image sufficiently lit.

See also my general reply.

I'm only interested in DoF, not exposure. I found out that the K3 does exactly what I need (almost). It maintains screen brightness in LV whilst showing true DoF. Not real time as for Canon, but good enough.

As I said, the K5 doesn't do this : the screen darkens making DoF preview not very useful at the apertures I use (f8 - f16)

This excellent for me as it's reasonable to assume the K1 would also have this feature.

The K3 manual doesn't mention this really important (for me) feature. Incidentally, I noticed the K3 review on this site also mentions the brevity of the K3 instructions (as compared to the K5)

NB to clarify when I said real time , what I mean is that you can see the actual change in DoF on screen as you alter the aperture. Otherwise (Pentax) you need to activate the preview button each time the aperture is changed to view the DoF change. I should have made that clear. As I said, definitely good enough

Last edited by sdgreen; 05-20-2016 at 10:03 AM. Reason: addition
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