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05-22-2016, 12:58 PM - 1 Like   #1
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Shake Reduction Feature on my Pentax K100D Super Camera!

Surprising information regarding Shake Reduction on my Pentax K100D Super Camera. The Shake Reduction Icon on the rear of the camera is a hand with the vibration or shake symbols on both sides of the hand. This would lead a person to believe that Shake Reduction is designed to reduce or eliminate the problem with not being able to handhold the camera steady while taking a photograph. Right?, Wrong. According to the Instruction Manual, the Shake Reduction is designed only to reduce the amount of vibration caused when activating the shutter release button. Also, when turning on my camera, I am given information telling me that the Shake Reduction is now automatically adjusted to the size of the lens currently mounted onto the camera. Why give me this information if it is not pertinent to the Shake Reduction function?

Honestly, going over to digital photography has been nothing more than one disappointment after another. These scientists, physicists and engineers come together and produce equipment that just doesn't make sense. These are Phds., and truthfully, that is really scary.

Rgds,

Antonio

05-22-2016, 01:14 PM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
Right?, Wrong. According to the Instruction Manual, the Shake Reduction is designed only to reduce the amount of vibration caused when activating the shutter release button.
Come on Tony! You are joking...right???? If that was so then they would recommend SR for tripod use, where there is still shutter activity. Everyone knows that SR is wonderful and if you try a new K1 with the new SR you will know just how wonderful it is!

1/100 handheld with SR @ 500mm Bigem 50-500 +K1....I doubt the shutter had much to do with it?



Regards!
05-22-2016, 01:28 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
Honestly, going over to digital photography has been nothing more than one disappointment after another. These scientists, physicists and engineers come together and produce equipment that just doesn't make sense.
Like Rupert I'm going to assume you are joking. If so, it is customary to put a smiley after the joke especially since this is an international forum and English is not everyone's first language.

On the off chance that you are not joking and really do not understand, why not just ask the forum when you are confused?
05-22-2016, 02:12 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
Surprising information regarding Shake Reduction on my Pentax K100D Super Camera. The Shake Reduction Icon on the rear of the camera is a hand with the vibration or shake symbols on both sides of the hand. This would lead a person to believe that Shake Reduction is designed to reduce or eliminate the problem with not being able to handhold the camera steady while taking a photograph. Right?, Wrong. According to the Instruction Manual, the Shake Reduction is designed only to reduce the amount of vibration caused when activating the shutter release button. Also, when turning on my camera, I am given information telling me that the Shake Reduction is now automatically adjusted to the size of the lens currently mounted onto the camera. Why give me this information if it is not pertinent to the Shake Reduction function?

Honestly, going over to digital photography has been nothing more than one disappointment after another. These scientists, physicists and engineers come together and produce equipment that just doesn't make sense. These are Phds., and truthfully, that is really scary.

Rgds,

Antonio
SR has evolved over time. The latest SR II system in the K-1 compensates for yaw, shift along both axes, and now also roll and pitch.

The degree of compensation has also increased over time: from 3 stops to 3.5, then 4 for a while, then 4.5 in the K-3 II, and now 5 in the K-1.


Adam
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05-22-2016, 03:34 PM   #5
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SR rocks! :~)
05-22-2016, 04:11 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
If that was so then they would recommend SR for tripod use, where there is still shutter activity. Everyone knows that SR is wonderful and if you try a new K1 with the new SR you will know just how wonderful it is!
Oh Rupert, don't burst my balloon. I was just beginning to convince myself that all the 250mm shots I got with my old K100D Super at 1/60th second (sometimes slower) were due to my superior technique rather than just technology.

Last edited by Des; 05-22-2016 at 04:35 PM.
05-22-2016, 04:14 PM   #7
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Hi Tony - I won't assume you're joking or not. Instead, I'll tell you that Pentax's SR *does* compensate for shake when hand-holding (however you read the manual), and I believe SR on the K100D offers a two-stop benefit... So, let's say you are shooting with a 135mm lens on your K100D (which has a 1.5x crop factor), the minimum shutter speed you'd want to use WITHOUT shake reduction is 1 / (135 x 1.5), or approximately 1/200s. But WITH shake reduction, you could drop your shutter speed to 1/50s (two stops from 1/200s) and still get blur free images most of the time...
05-22-2016, 04:17 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
According to the Instruction Manual, the Shake Reduction is designed only to reduce the amount of vibration caused when activating the shutter release button.
Tony I had a look back at the manual for the K100D Super and I can't find the passage you are referring to. And I couldn't accuse Pentax of underselling the feature either: there are pages and pages trumpeting it.

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
So, let's say you are shooting with a 135mm lens on your K100D (which has a 1.5x crop factor), the minimum shutter speed you'd want to use WITHOUT shake reduction is 1 / (135 x 1.5), or approximately 1/200s. But WITH shake reduction, you could drop your shutter speed to 1/50s (two stops from 1/200s) and still get blur free images most of the time...
Apart from quantifying the benefit by a certain number of stops, this is pretty much exactly what the K100D Super manual says at p.42. (The pdf is locked so I can't copy and paste.)

And on reading further, I find at p.47 that it quantifies the benefit of SR as "2 to 3.5 steps slower shutter speed".


Last edited by Des; 05-22-2016 at 04:33 PM.
05-22-2016, 04:30 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
According to the Instruction Manual, the Shake Reduction is designed only to reduce the amount of vibration caused when activating the shutter release button.
I do not have the manual so I am assuming (always risky) that the quoted statement is verbatim. The sentence does not state the vibration is caused by the shutter mechanism itself. The key word in this sentence is "when." The act of pressing the shutter release button introduces small involuntary hand movements. It is these movements the SR is designed to eliminate.

. The focal length of the lens is a vital factor in calculating the amount of SR to apply.
05-22-2016, 04:31 PM   #10
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Fellow members. Please be advised that I place my jokes in the "Joke Thread Only." In the Pentax K100D Super camera manual on Page 47 it states, and I quote: The Shake Reduction Function reduces camera shake that easily occurs when the shutter release button is pressed. The Shake Reduction Function may not fully reduce camera shake in close-up shots. In this case it is recommended to turn off Shake Reduction and place the camera on a tripod." Unquote. It just goes on to say how the camera operates with different lenses and types. This is right out the manual. I believe it clearly indicates every time the shutter release button is pressed. At any rate, it does not even imply the reduction of shake caused by a photographer's hand holding the camera. Shake Reduction in this camera is a function for offsetting the vibrations caused by the shutter when activated.

Thanks,

Antonio

Last edited by Tonytee; 05-22-2016 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Additional Information
05-22-2016, 04:39 PM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
In the Pentax K100D Super camera manual on Page 47 it states, and I quote: The Shake Reduction Function reduces camera shake that easily occurs when the shutter release button is pressed.
Yes... So, what that's saying is, whatever shake is going on when you press the shutter release button (and that includes your hands shaking) is compensated for.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
The Shake Reduction Function may not fully reduce camera shake in close-up shots. In this case it is recommended to turn off Shake Reduction and place the camera on a tripod.
This is a wider subject that came up in another thread recently, where close-up focusing appears to benefit from a greater level of shake reduction than more normal focusing distances. But, for the purposes of your original mail, I think you may just be interpreting the wording of the manual incorrectly. Take it from me - SR compensates for hand shake, and in the case of the K100D, up to two stops.

Hope this helps
05-22-2016, 05:02 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Come on Tony! You are joking...right???? If that was so then they would recommend SR for tripod use, where there is still shutter activity. Everyone knows that SR is wonderful and if you try a new K1 with the new SR you will know just how wonderful it is!

1/100 handheld with SR @ 500mm Bigem 50-500 +K1....I doubt the shutter had much to do with it?



Regards!
Your point is well taken. However, when using a tripod, I use the remote control, and on occasion the self-timer. This is an internal operation and that is why they recommend turning off the Shake Reduction when your camera is on a tripod. The manual speaks for itself. Also, I failed to mention that on several occasions, the Shake Reduction did not bail me out of some blurry images. So again, the manual does not even indicate or even imply that Shake Reduction is to offset hand shake when hand holding the camera. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. )) Here is my smiley face.

Thanks very much for your input.

Antonio

Last edited by Tonytee; 05-22-2016 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Grammar Boo Boo.
05-22-2016, 05:03 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
These scientists, physicists and engineers come together and produce equipment that just doesn't make sense. These are Phds., and truthfully, that is really scary.
It may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to the vast majority of photographers, amateur and professional, who have taken the time to understand it and use it successfully.
How much shake reduction was available on your film camera before you had the misfortune to switch to digital?
05-22-2016, 05:05 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
In the Pentax K100D Super camera manual on Page 47 it states, and I quote: The Shake Reduction Function reduces camera shake that easily occurs when the shutter release button is pressed. The Shake Reduction Function may not fully reduce camera shake in close-up shots. In this case it is recommended to turn off Shake Reduction and place the camera on a tripod.
"When" doesn't mean "because" and certainly not "only because". "When" means when. The first sentence you quote is referring to the camera shake that is occuring at the moment you press the shutter button, whether caused by the index finger of the right hand pressing the shutter, the rest of your right hand holding the body, the left hand cradling the lens, or your whole body moving.

And the second and third sentences you quote don't follow on straight after the first.

You left out this bit, which comes straight after the first sentence you quote:
"This is useful for taking pictures in situations where camera shake is likely to occur. The Shake Reduction function gives you approxomately 2 to 3.5 steps slower shutter speed without the risk of camera shake. The Shake Reduction function is useful when taking pictures in the following situations:
- When taking pictures in dimly lit locations, such as indoors, at night, on cloudy days and in the shade
- In taking telephoto pictures
"

This would make no sense if the manual were only referring to shake literally caused by pressing the shutter button. The manual is referring to any heldheld use of the camera. (Yes, it might have been better if they put it that way.) The exception for "close up shots" merely advises the user to use a tripod instead.

If you look at the whole passage in context, it's quite clear.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tonytee Quote
Honestly, going over to digital photography has been nothing more than one disappointment after another.
That's certainly not my experience. After 23 years of using a film SLR the K100D Super was a revelation. Just the SR function alone was amazing. Of course SR had its limits, but I found it astonishing how slow I could go with the K100D Super handheld and still get acceptable results.

And as Adam says, the technology is being improved with each generation of cameras. The K-30 was even better, and the K-3 is better again.

Last edited by Des; 05-22-2016 at 05:47 PM.
05-22-2016, 05:59 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
It may not make sense to you, but it makes sense to the vast majority of photographers, amateur and professional, who have taken the time to understand it and use it successfully.
How much shake reduction was available on your film camera before you had the misfortune to switch to digital?
I didn't say it doesn't make sense to me. I understand everything that has been said. My point is, and again it is right out of the manual. It is designed to reduce vibration when the shutter is activated. I did not write this manual, if I had it would be a lot clearer. Then again, it could be in the translation. I enjoy my K100D Super camera a great deal, even more than my Nikon digital camera. Pentax placed an icon on the back of the camera clearly indicating that it assists in reducing hand shake. Let's say I place my camera on a tripod and I am using the accessory that activates the shutter. There will still be some degree of vibration. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it very much.

Regards,

Antonio
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