Digital noise in K10D photos

D1N0 · 07-06-2016, 04:15 PM

Yep problem here too. It's in the raw. I've found a thread about a similar problem: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/8610-strange-problems-my-k10d.html

must be something with the bayer demosaicing going wrong I guess. Did you try a reset?

stevebrot · 07-06-2016, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by D1N0

I've found a thread about a similar problem: Strange problems with my K10D

must be something with the bayer demosaicing going wrong I guess. Did you try a reset?

The linked problem is classic Bayer demosaicing artifact and is not something that is addressable in-camera. (The demosaicing process is done by the RAW converter.) The OP's issue looks more like a strong magnetic field was present when the exposure was made or a hardware fault. Wrist magnets for arthritis?

Steve

Mister Mike · 07-06-2016, 07:27 PM

I tried a factory reset, and while it looks just a little better, it's still there, and any perceived improvement is likely in my head. I thought about interference too, but can't figure out what it would be. There are no magnets near the camera. It's starting to look grim for my old K10D. ☹️

**goatsNdonkey** · 07-06-2016, 08:18 PM

If some people can see this effect, some can barely see it, and some can't see it at all -- could differences in viewers' computer monitors be contributing to it...or in some cases, not? Whatever our cameras produce, what we share here is always intermediated by the matrix of our monitors and the electronics behind them.

Not a Number · 07-06-2016, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by goatsNdonkey

If some people can see this effect, some can barely see it, and some can't see it at all -- could differences in viewers' computer monitors be contributing to it...or in some cases, not?

Just changing the brightness/contrast on the monitor makes it come/go away. That's why a RAW processed by another system would help to isolate where the artifact is coming from.

Mister Mike · 07-07-2016, 08:20 AM

To clarify, I can confirm the presence of the noise with the on-camera LCD by zooming in (even as limited as an LCD from 2006 is), and can equally see it on my iPhone and computer monitor, so I'm pretty convinced that there's a problem with the CCD. I can still get good photos when lighting conditions are ideal, or when my apeture, shutter and ISO balance are in a sweet spot, but the pattern seems to appear more and more -- particularly when I've just taken an otherwise good shot. Maybe I'm just noticing it more, though. Very frustrating because I love everything else about the camera and the pictures it takes, so it's driving me insane (even though it's a 10-year-old body that currently goes for $100 and I probably shouldn't be so attached)!

D1N0 · 07-07-2016, 08:33 AM

was it always in the pictures you took with the camera? Or did it develop at some point?

Mister Mike · 07-07-2016, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by D1N0

was it always in the pictures you took with the camera? Or did it develop at some point?

Looking back at some old photos, it was always there. Apparently I wasn't sensitive to it back then -- just chalked it up to a digital camera's response to poor lighting and my own lack of skill when my standards were lower and I was less confident in my ability to use a DSLR. I didn't really get sensitive to it until I got a fast 35mm manual prime, which magnified the issue. When I zoomed in on a new image to see how sharp I was able to get the shot, I noticed the digital noise. I think I bought the K10D a bit too quickly out the gate and got a bad example, but it took me a decade to realize it. Too bad it didn't come with a 10-year warranty!

**niceshot** · 07-07-2016, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Mister Mike

To clarify, I can confirm the presence of the noise with the on-camera LCD by zooming in (even as limited as an LCD from 2006 is), and can equally see it on my iPhone and computer monitor, so I'm pretty convinced that there's a problem with the CCD. I can still get good photos when lighting conditions are ideal, or when my apeture, shutter and ISO balance are in a sweet spot, but the pattern seems to appear more and more -- particularly when I've just taken an otherwise good shot. Maybe I'm just noticing it more, though. Very frustrating because I love everything else about the camera and the pictures it takes, so it's driving me insane (even though it's a 10-year-old body that currently goes for $100 and I probably shouldn't be so attached)!

Look if you are that attached find a used sensor online and replace it.To be blunt i don't even see why it is bothering you.I think you are obsessing, like Adam said get a k-50 end of story.

Mister Mike · 07-07-2016, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by niceshot

Look if you are that attached find a used sensor online and replace it.To be blunt i don't even see why it is bothering you.I think you are obsessing, like Adam said get a k-50 end of story.

At this point it's more about solving the mystery, but now that I'm coming to terms with the bad sensor (and replacing it is probably more of an ordeal than upgrading), I'll start looking for a replacement body.

**niceshot** · 07-07-2016, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Mister Mike

At this point it's more about solving the mystery, but now that I'm coming to terms with the bad sensor (and replacing it is probably more of an ordeal than upgrading), I'll start looking for a replacement body.

no big deal , but i think it is still very usable

**paulh** · 07-07-2016, 06:01 PM

If you really love the K10D, some nice low-count examples have been turning up in the Marketplace for <$150. I think KEH had a few in stock as well IIRC. Repairing yours will not be very cost-effective.

ChristianRock · 07-07-2016, 06:59 PM

What version firmware are you running? Apparently the earlier versions had issues with noise or banding at longer exposures, I wonder if upgrading the firmware could rule out a software issue.

Mister Mike · 07-07-2016, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

What version firmware are you running? Apparently the earlier versions had issues with noise or banding at longer exposures, I wonder if upgrading the firmware could rule out a software issue.

I'm running 1.3.1, which is the latest (unfortunately).

Not a Number · 07-08-2016, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by niceshot

Look if you are that attached find a used sensor online and replace it.To be blunt i don't even see why it is bothering you.I think you are obsessing, like Adam said get a k-50 end of story.

We may as well ask why you are obsessed with DIY fixing your K-50. Send it out for repair, buy another one or K-S2 or K-70. End of Story

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07-06-2016, 04:15 PM	#31
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Yep problem here too. It's in the raw. I've found a thread about a similar problem: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/8610-strange-problems-my-k10d.html must be something with the bayer demosaicing going wrong I guess. Did you try a reset?

07-06-2016, 06:28 PM	#32
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by D1N0 I've found a thread about a similar problem: Strange problems with my K10D must be something with the bayer demosaicing going wrong I guess. Did you try a reset? The linked problem is classic Bayer demosaicing artifact and is not something that is addressable in-camera. (The demosaicing process is done by the RAW converter.) The OP's issue looks more like a strong magnetic field was present when the exposure was made or a hardware fault. Wrist magnets for arthritis? Steve

07-06-2016, 07:27 PM	#33
Mister Mike New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Original Poster	I tried a factory reset, and while it looks just a little better, it's still there, and any perceived improvement is likely in my head. I thought about interference too, but can't figure out what it would be. There are no magnets near the camera. It's starting to look grim for my old K10D. ☹️

07-06-2016, 08:18 PM	#34
goatsNdonkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Fulton County, Illinois Posts: 3,727	If some people can see this effect, some can barely see it, and some can't see it at all -- could differences in viewers' computer monitors be contributing to it...or in some cases, not? Whatever our cameras produce, what we share here is always intermediated by the matrix of our monitors and the electronics behind them.

07-06-2016, 10:15 PM	#35
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by goatsNdonkey If some people can see this effect, some can barely see it, and some can't see it at all -- could differences in viewers' computer monitors be contributing to it...or in some cases, not? Just changing the brightness/contrast on the monitor makes it come/go away. That's why a RAW processed by another system would help to isolate where the artifact is coming from.

07-07-2016, 08:20 AM	#36
Mister Mike New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Original Poster	To clarify, I can confirm the presence of the noise with the on-camera LCD by zooming in (even as limited as an LCD from 2006 is), and can equally see it on my iPhone and computer monitor, so I'm pretty convinced that there's a problem with the CCD. I can still get good photos when lighting conditions are ideal, or when my apeture, shutter and ISO balance are in a sweet spot, but the pattern seems to appear more and more -- particularly when I've just taken an otherwise good shot. Maybe I'm just noticing it more, though. Very frustrating because I love everything else about the camera and the pictures it takes, so it's driving me insane (even though it's a 10-year-old body that currently goes for $100 and I probably shouldn't be so attached)!

07-07-2016, 08:33 AM	#37
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	was it always in the pictures you took with the camera? Or did it develop at some point?

07-07-2016, 03:29 PM	#38
Mister Mike New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Original Poster	Originally posted by D1N0 was it always in the pictures you took with the camera? Or did it develop at some point? Looking back at some old photos, it was always there. Apparently I wasn't sensitive to it back then -- just chalked it up to a digital camera's response to poor lighting and my own lack of skill when my standards were lower and I was less confident in my ability to use a DSLR. I didn't really get sensitive to it until I got a fast 35mm manual prime, which magnified the issue. When I zoomed in on a new image to see how sharp I was able to get the shot, I noticed the digital noise. I think I bought the K10D a bit too quickly out the gate and got a bad example, but it took me a decade to realize it. Too bad it didn't come with a 10-year warranty!

07-07-2016, 03:53 PM	#39
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by Mister Mike To clarify, I can confirm the presence of the noise with the on-camera LCD by zooming in (even as limited as an LCD from 2006 is), and can equally see it on my iPhone and computer monitor, so I'm pretty convinced that there's a problem with the CCD. I can still get good photos when lighting conditions are ideal, or when my apeture, shutter and ISO balance are in a sweet spot, but the pattern seems to appear more and more -- particularly when I've just taken an otherwise good shot. Maybe I'm just noticing it more, though. Very frustrating because I love everything else about the camera and the pictures it takes, so it's driving me insane (even though it's a 10-year-old body that currently goes for $100 and I probably shouldn't be so attached)! Look if you are that attached find a used sensor online and replace it.To be blunt i don't even see why it is bothering you.I think you are obsessing, like Adam said get a k-50 end of story.

07-07-2016, 04:23 PM	#40
Mister Mike New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Original Poster	Originally posted by niceshot Look if you are that attached find a used sensor online and replace it.To be blunt i don't even see why it is bothering you.I think you are obsessing, like Adam said get a k-50 end of story. At this point it's more about solving the mystery, but now that I'm coming to terms with the bad sensor (and replacing it is probably more of an ordeal than upgrading), I'll start looking for a replacement body.

07-07-2016, 04:48 PM	#41
niceshot Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,564	Originally posted by Mister Mike At this point it's more about solving the mystery, but now that I'm coming to terms with the bad sensor (and replacing it is probably more of an ordeal than upgrading), I'll start looking for a replacement body. no big deal , but i think it is still very usable

07-07-2016, 06:01 PM	#42
paulh Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: DFW Texas/Ventura County, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 33,262	If you really love the K10D, some nice low-count examples have been turning up in the Marketplace for <$150. I think KEH had a few in stock as well IIRC. Repairing yours will not be very cost-effective.

07-07-2016, 06:59 PM	#43
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	What version firmware are you running? Apparently the earlier versions had issues with noise or banding at longer exposures, I wonder if upgrading the firmware could rule out a software issue.

07-07-2016, 08:05 PM	#44
Mister Mike New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Original Poster	Originally posted by ChristianRock What version firmware are you running? Apparently the earlier versions had issues with noise or banding at longer exposures, I wonder if upgrading the firmware could rule out a software issue. I'm running 1.3.1, which is the latest (unfortunately).

07-08-2016, 03:24 AM	#45
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by niceshot Look if you are that attached find a used sensor online and replace it.To be blunt i don't even see why it is bothering you.I think you are obsessing, like Adam said get a k-50 end of story. We may as well ask why you are obsessed with DIY fixing your K-50. Send it out for repair, buy another one or K-S2 or K-70. End of Story