Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-03-2016, 08:11 AM   #1
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 21
Digital noise in K10D photos

Hello, I've been getting back into using my K10D and have noticed levels of digital noise or interference in several (but not all) photos that seem unacceptable. I think I always chalked it up to low light and typical CCD noise or JPG conversion, but after doing some online research, it seems much worse than should be expected -- even from an old K10D. Has anyone seen a pattern like this? Anything I should try, or does it look like I have a bad CCD? This picture gives a typical example. You can see the "zigzag" lines on the black bar in front of the baby, and in the pattern of the red backrest.

Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K10D  Photo 
07-03-2016, 08:24 AM   #2
Loyal Site Supporter
paulh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DFW Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,320
Hmm...I don't think I've ever seen that type of problem before. I didn't really notice it until I looked at the hair on the sides of the baby's head, and the blurred-out object at lower right. Are you shooting jpeg or RAW? If RAW, are these artifacts visible in your RAW converter/editor? My first guess would be some kind of jpeg compression byproduct, but I'm hardly an expert. You might try posting this in The K10D Club here on the forums - there's a few knowledgeable K10D users there who might help.
07-03-2016, 08:29 AM   #3
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 21
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by paulh Quote
Hmm...I don't think I've ever seen that type of problem before. I didn't really notice it until I looked at the hair on the sides of the baby's head, and the blurred-out object at lower right. Are you shooting jpeg or RAW? If RAW, are these artifacts visible in your RAW converter/editor? My first guess would be some kind of jpeg compression byproduct, but I'm hardly an expert. You might try posting this in The K10D Club here on the forums - there's a few knowledgeable K10D users there who might help.
Should have mentioned this happens in both JPG and RAW. And I tried 2 different SD cards.
07-03-2016, 08:42 AM   #4
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 960
I dont see what your talking about, thing you are pixel peeping to much.

07-03-2016, 09:00 AM   #5
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,297
I do see them. If they are raw maybe you should try to use a different converter?
07-03-2016, 09:03 AM   #6
Pentaxian
Not a Number's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 4,105
It's noticeable if you view the image at the resolution it was posted. The browser and the vBulletin will downscale the image so it doesn't show. If you're are using Firefox just right click on the image and "view image". No pixel peeping needed.

Does this happen at lower ISO? 400 is usually the highest I will try to shoot with on my K10D because of noise to begin with. It almost looks like a moire pattern which the AA filter should reduce.

Is this an out of camera jpeg or was it a RAW developed out of camera? If the latter, what software did you use?
07-03-2016, 09:25 AM   #7
New Member




Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 21
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
It's noticeable if you view the image at the resolution it was posted. The browser and the vBulletin will downscale the image so it doesn't show. If you're are using Firefox just right click on the image and "view image". No pixel peeping needed.

Does this happen at lower ISO? 400 is usually the highest I will try to shoot with on my K10D because of noise to begin with. It almost looks like a moire pattern which the AA filter should reduce.

Is this an out of camera jpeg or was it a RAW developed out of camera? If the latter, what software did you use?
This is an out of camera JPG, but it does it in JPG or RAW. The pattern can be seen on-camera either way before processing, particularly with low light and indoor photos. I'll try lower ISO and see if that helps.
07-03-2016, 09:37 AM   #8
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2014
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 960
QuoteOriginally posted by Mister Mike Quote
This is an out of camera JPG, but it does it in JPG or RAW. The pattern can be seen on-camera either way before processing, particularly with low light and indoor photos. I'll try lower ISO and see if that helps.
maybe it is a sensor swab mark.

07-03-2016, 09:48 AM   #9
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,088
try a shot with sr disabled
07-03-2016, 10:10 AM   #10
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 1,068
QuoteQuote:
The pattern can be seen on-camera either way before processing
What you see on-camera was already processed.
And (as you cannot "see" a raw picture) any kind of displaying has at least gone through some kind of basic processing.

To find out what really happened (if really something strange happened) you would have to look at it on pixel level in a raw converter, set to the minimum of processing possible.
From the picture you sent, no conclusions can be drawn. This is jpeg-compressed by a factor of roughly 1:100, so any kind of information on pixel level is lost; real objects as well as noise are now mixed to one soup.
It still looks sharp and fairly noise-free seen from a suitable distance.
With jpeg-compression it is a bit like with printing, where when viewing you have to keep a minimum distance depending on resolution.
Interpolations can produce patterns not present in the original.
07-03-2016, 12:25 PM   #11
Pentaxian
Na Horuk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Slovenia, probably
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,698
It really reminds me of a special effects filter. Does this happen with other lenses as well? Can you try the Reset functions in the camera, maybe a firmware update?
Its a really odd effect. Maybe you can keep it as a special effects camera. But it is definitely not for everything
07-03-2016, 12:43 PM   #12
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,849
There is obvious artifact in the OOF middle tones throughout the image. The EXIF is intact and here is part of what I was able to extract:
  • In-camera JPEG
  • Original capture: 3872x2592 pixels (full 10 Mpx resolution)
  • Down-sampled using Windows Live Photo Gallery to 1344x900 pixels with unknown amount of compression (file size is less than half the expected.)
  • Green mode (camera chooses in-camera JPEG process settings)
  • Custom Rendered : Normal
  • Scene Capture Type : Standard
  • Contrast : High (+1 med-high in makernotes)
  • Saturation : Normal
  • Sharpness : Normal
  • Image tone: Bright
  • JPEG (capture) quality: Best
There are no smoking guns here except for the down-sample and/or compression (they are not the same thing). The image was down-sampled to 12% of the original resolution with at least 50% compression applied on top of that. Access to the original 10 Mpx capture might be helpful. There were vertical banding artifact issues with the K10D early on, but those were found at ISO 800 and above and did not have this appearance.

At this point, I suspect processing artifact courtesy of Microsoft Live Gallery.

BTW: Welcome to the Pentax Forums!


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 07-03-2016 at 12:54 PM.
07-03-2016, 01:41 PM   #13
Site Supporter
slip's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,526
I think it is time to trade up to a K5iis. amazing difference in quality and are fairly cheap now. my K10 died in the rain and it was the best thing that could happen

Randy
07-03-2016, 01:42 PM   #14
New Member




Join Date: Nov 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 20
By any chance, were you using the battery grip?

A friend of mine had exactly this type of banding issue with his K10D when using the grip, and if I remember well, he also found a relation with keeping his cell phone in his shirt front pocket close to the camera. Kind of interference induced noise pattern, who knows...
07-03-2016, 01:47 PM   #15
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 41,822
I'd blame the photo gallery program too.

That said, if you want less noise in the classic sense, today's offerings fare much better than the K10D. Even a cheap K-50 would blow it away

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, ccd, diy, k-50, k-70, k-s2, k10d, noise, noise in k10d, pattern, pentax help, photography, photos, repair, story, troubleshooting
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Return SD card from digital Pentax 700 photos sherrvonne General Photography 13 01-10-2016 06:52 PM
Nature My photos in Ukrainian edition of Digital Photographer Magazine Nitrok Post Your Photos! 14 04-08-2011 06:21 AM
digital noise crystax Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 3 12-30-2010 11:45 AM
Urgent problem: Inconsistency in noise level with K10D Cannon-S2 Pentax DSLR Discussion 33 01-23-2008 12:02 PM
Elk photos... in JPEG... courtesy of the K10D... Marc Langille Post Your Photos! 18 02-07-2007 10:46 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:50 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top