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09-02-2016, 10:38 PM   #1
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Thin black line in images - card error?

I have 11 images shot on a K200D where all have a thin black line across them. All of the images were taken at the same location at the same time. Wheat field, rural road, no telephone or electrical lines.

The thin black line is not in exactly the same position or direction in all 11 images, but it is in the same position on any 3 image sequence consisting of 6 RAW/Jpeg files auto-bracketed at the same time.

I have posted a complete image and a crop as examples.

I have not seen this issue before. Doing some searching on this site and others I see some mention of a sensor problem with the K20D but nothing specific to the K200D.

Should I just reformat the card and see if the problem reappears, or is this an indication of a more serious problem?

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09-02-2016, 10:44 PM   #2
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Could this be a shutter issue?
09-02-2016, 11:06 PM   #3
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My guess is that there actually was some sore of wire there there If not, could be a sensor or file opening problem, most likely not a memory card corruption.

Do you see the line when reviewing the photos in camera?

Does it show up in subsequent photos?

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09-03-2016, 03:49 AM   #4
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Hmm,

I'm not much of a photographer but I do have an electronics background.

That is interesting. Try a new card and see if it repeats (I think that it might). Originally I thought that it would be odd for a card issue as it seems that the error would be offset by and exact row length + some number of bytes but if you zoom right in it looks like small horizontal segments but there is a degree of smoothing happening. Do you have the raw files ? I would have thought a bad card would produce blocks where bad ram was and not such a linear pattern but the jpeg smoothing around the segments might suggest that it is happening in the sensor -> compression engine part of the camera.

It could be bad/exhausted batteries causing the compression engine or timing logic/AtoD converters/smoothing circuits etc. to glitch.

Raw wouldn't be subject to digital/electrical (only the bayer/AA filters which are optical and wouldn't move the line) compression smoothing/artefacts so if the raw file has it then it isn't the compression engine so it might be the sensor.

As for the shutter it is an interesting idea but for the line to go smoothly across the image in a diagonal line ?? I was not aware that shutters produce smooth diagonal artefacts (I would be interested in understanding how though). I thought that shutters moved vertically. I guess a trapped hair or damaged/skewed blade (mechanism) could cause this but the OP mentions that the line is not always in the same place. Are they always straight lines? Maybe a few raw images could show that the segments are the same length ? I am not sure that a failing sensor would move the line. Looks like a timing/amp circuit issue which could be a failing component (overheating) or bad power causing circuit instability.

Does it still happen at different ISO values and/or EV settings as these would modify the signal sensitivity circuitry. You mentioned that it was during bracketing, don't use bracketing much but this would modify the sensitivity of the sensor. Do you get the same line if you disable bracketing and repeat the same pictures at the same exposure settings as used by the bracketing?

cheers

09-03-2016, 04:08 AM   #5
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The line is not straight, but parabolic so I can't see how it could be camera or card related. Are you absolutely sure there wasn't an extra low voltage line like an old rail telegraph line spanning the field? My eyes aren't that flash anymore and I've missed things like that from time to time.

It's a unique problem either way.
09-03-2016, 04:21 AM   #6
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When it is not in other pictures other than this location, maybe there was a wire. Try to reproduce it at the same camera settings on a different location.
09-03-2016, 05:45 AM   #7
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Possibly a hair on the sensor/in the mirror box, though usually would be more blurred I think even at 18mm and f9.5?
09-03-2016, 05:56 AM   #8
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Really odd. The line thickness seems to vary based on background. Can you take a white wall picture and see the line?

09-03-2016, 08:20 AM   #9
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It happens to me too... but only when I take photos in my back garden... where I have a long wire radio antenna. I think there's a correlation

My guess is it's a ham radio antenna, or telephone line
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09-03-2016, 08:30 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by YeOldePentaxian Quote
All of the images were taken at the same location at the same time. Wheat field, rural road, no telephone or electrical lines.
I think he has been clear, no electrical lines.
09-03-2016, 08:45 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I think he has been clear, no electrical lines.
No, I get that... perhaps my reply seemed a bit too jokey / flippant... I meant no offence.

It's entirely possible for a long wire radio antenna to be a couple of hundred feet in length with nothing but a simple guyed pole at each end, and those can be easy to miss when viewing a scene. It may be that the OP is certain this wasn't the case, of course...

EDIT: Access to a full size RAW file would help us identify what it is, and rule out what it isn't

EDIT #2: If you magnify the JPEG in Photoshop, you can see JPEG rendering / sharpening artefacts along the line. That, to me, rules out a memory card issue - it is something in the image capture process, either in front of the lens or in the capture of sensor data. EDIT #3 - and those JPEG rendering artefacts are very, very similar to those I see in my own image above when that is magnified.

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09-03-2016, 09:27 AM   #12
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Good points.
09-03-2016, 09:37 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Good points.
And my final reason for thinking this is in front of the lens:

With the image magnified, if you look along the whole line from one end to the other, the shade changes, like there are lighting differences. If it were a sensor issue, I'd expect to see a solid line of black (or at least a consistent colour)...
09-03-2016, 05:01 PM - 1 Like   #14
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Well, I am somewhat embarrassed, but at the same time happy to report, the problem is what has sometimes been referred to as an ID 10T error. Or, if you are more automotively inclined - the nut behind the wheel.

I went back to have a look at the location where I took the images that had me concerned. After miles and miles of rural range road with no poles or lines - somehow I managed to stop to take pictures in a location where the lines were directly in front of me. I guess I was so focused on the clouds it didn't see the poles.

Thank you to everyone for chiming in, hopefully this thread will be useful for others in future.
09-03-2016, 05:20 PM   #15
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Hopefully it is possible to heal these and erase the lines.
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