High Speed Flash Sync w/K10d

noblepa · 10-13-2016, 02:04 PM

I just purchased a ProMaster FL-160 to use with my Pentax K10d. This is the first flash I've had that is capable of HSS.

I have set the flash to HSS mode by pressing the mode switch until a small H appears on the flash's LCD panel. According to the manual, this is the indicator for HSS.

Since I've never used HSS before, I pulled out the PDF copy of the manual for my camera. It seems to indicate that, to use HSS, I simply set the camera to M or Tv modes, and set the flash to HSS (I've already done that). The manual, of course, only refers to the Pentax brand flashes, AF540FGZ and AF360FGZ.

However, the camera will not let me set the shutter speed faster than 1/180 sec. So, no HSS.

Is there anything else I need to do to enable HSS on my camera.

This is a nice little flash and I got a really good price on it. Its brand new in the box.

The camera firmware is version 1.31, the latest.

Thanks for any help.

enoeske · 10-13-2016, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by noblepa

I just purchased a ProMaster FL-160 to use with my Pentax K10d. This is the first flash I've had that is capable of HSS.

I have set the flash to HSS mode by pressing the mode switch until a small H appears on the flash's LCD panel. According to the manual, this is the indicator for HSS.

Since I've never used HSS before, I pulled out the PDF copy of the manual for my camera. It seems to indicate that, to use HSS, I simply set the camera to M or Tv modes, and set the flash to HSS (I've already done that). The manual, of course, only refers to the Pentax brand flashes, AF540FGZ and AF360FGZ.

However, the camera will not let me set the shutter speed faster than 1/180 sec. So, no HSS.

Is there anything else I need to do to enable HSS on my camera.

This is a nice little flash and I got a really good price on it. Its brand new in the box.

The camera firmware is version 1.31, the latest.

Thanks for any help.

I don't see a ton of info about that flash, but it looks like maybe its TTL only and not P-TTL capable and I don't think the K-10D supports TTL

**UncleVanya** · 10-13-2016, 02:22 PM

@mcgregni

I am unsure but the person above may have the answer.

noblepa · 10-13-2016, 02:37 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by enoeske

I don't see a ton of info about that flash, but it looks like maybe its TTL only and not P-TTL capable and I don't think the K-10D supports TTL

Thanks for your replies.

The answer, as is often the case, was RTFM (read the ****ing manual).

A little further reading of the manual revealed that there is an additional step. I pressed the MODE button to select HSS, but I did not press the +/- button to toggle the feature on/off.

When I did that, it worked as expected. I was able to set the shutter speed as high as I liked.

Mea culpa.

So far, this seems like a nice little flash. Some of its features:

GN 158/48 (ft/m) at 105mm
Optical slave (with option to ignore 1, 2 or 3 preflashes)
Front/rear curtain sync.
High Speed Sync
Tilt/swivel
Seven manual power levels (1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64)
Focus assist beam
Slow speed sync
Auto Power zoom (24-105mm)

Again, thanks for your replies.

**UncleVanya** · 10-13-2016, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by noblepa

Thanks for your replies.

The answer, as is often the case, was RTFM (read the ****ing manual).

A little further reading of the manual revealed that there is an additional step. I pressed the MODE button to select HSS, but I did not press the +/- button to toggle the feature on/off.

When I did that, it worked as expected. I was able to set the shutter speed as high as I liked.

Mea culpa.

So far, this seems like a nice little flash. Some of its features:

GN 158/48 (ft/m) at 105mm
Optical slave (with option to ignore 1, 2 or 3 preflashes)
Front/rear curtain sync.
High Speed Sync
Tilt/swivel
Seven manual power levels (1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64)
Focus assist beam
Slow speed sync
Auto Power zoom (24-105mm)

Again, thanks for your replies.

That was nice of you to post the entire solution. Someone else may have the same issue and find this thread. I'm glad it worked out.

ChristianRock · 10-13-2016, 05:17 PM

So how high can you get the shutter speed? I am not familiar with the technology. Does this work with all cameras?

**clackers** · 10-13-2016, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

So how high can you get the shutter speed? I am not familiar with the technology. Does this work with all cameras?

As high as the camera is capable, CR, with a cost in output power, obviously.

**Des** · 10-13-2016, 05:46 PM

ProMaster FL160 TTL Flash - For Pentax #5048 - Flashes and Speedlights - Spec Sheet
To my untutored eye, that looks quite a bargain for (on-camera) HSS, compared to say a Metz 48 or Pentax 360.

mcgregni · 10-13-2016, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

@mcgregni

I am unsure but the person above may have the answer.

I didn't, he seemed to have done it all right, but that little extra setting step would catch out plenty I'm sure!

Sounds like a well specified flash .... Am I right to think that the Promaster is a rebadged Tumax model?

noblepa · 10-14-2016, 01:38 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by mcgregni

I didn't, he seemed to have done it all right, but that little extra setting step would catch out plenty I'm sure!

Sounds like a well specified flash .... Am I right to think that the Promaster is a rebadged Tumax model?

I'm not sure who actually makes this flash. I do know that Promaster is not a manufacturer. They buy products from other manufacturers and put their name on them, just as Vivitar does. It very well could be made by Tumax.

So far, I like it. The only significant feature is seems to be lacking is wireless flash control. I have seen nothing in the manual about that.

For the earlier poster who was not familiar with HSS, it is a technique that allows flash pictures to be taken with the shutter speed faster than the camera's "synch" speed. On a Pentax dslr, that speed is 1/180 second. That is the fastest speed at which the shutter is completely open. At faster speeds, the trailing curtain begins to close before the leading curtain has finished its run. This results in a moving slit across the image sensor.

An ordinary flash fires once (aside from the exposure-control pre-flash) at the instant the shutter is fully open. HSS mode allows the flash to fire multiple times, as the shutter traverses the image sensor. The cost is flash intensity. An HSS flash is not as bright as an ordinary flash.

It also has less motion-stopping power. An ordinary flash may have a duration as short as 1/50,000 second. I think it is 1/20,000 on my Promaster flash. That will stop a bullet in flight. In HSS mode, the motion stopping ability is that of the physical shutter, which on most cameras is 1/4,000 or 1/8,000 second.

Someone on a forum somewhere did an experiment to demonstrate this. He shot a tabletop fan (the kind used to provide a breeze in a hot room). with an ordinary flash exposure, the fan blades were perfectly frozen. In HSS mode, the fan blades were completely blurred.

HSS is particularly effective as a fill flash in bright sunlight, to compensate for shadows that may fall across the face of your subject. In bright sunlight, a shutter speed of 1/180, even with an aperture of f/16 or f/22, may still be enough to overexpose the picture. By raising the shutter speed, you can control the exposure caused by the ambient light, while using the flash to fill in the faces of your subject.

**Des** · 10-14-2016, 03:46 PM

That's as lucid an explanation of HSS as I've read since, well, @mcgregni

(That's meant as high praise to both.)

**UncleVanya** · 10-14-2016, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by mcgregni

I didn't, he seemed to have done it all right, but that little extra setting step would catch out plenty I'm sure!

Sounds like a well specified flash .... Am I right to think that the Promaster is a rebadged Tumax model?

I'm not sure if it is a Tumax. My only Tumax that I owned ever was not HSS capable that I can tell. I still have the manual and even looked.

mcgregni · 10-15-2016, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Des

That's as lucid an explanation of HSS as I've read since, well, @mcgregni

(That's meant as high praise to both.)

Thanks, and yes, a good description above! I'm wondering one thing though, about the motion freezing effect off HSS .... Would it be the actual time value setting (eg 1/2000th, 1/4000th) or is it the same as the mac sync speed (180th) which is the time it takes for the ' moving slit ' to travel across the whole frame ....?

**Des** · 10-15-2016, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by mcgregni

I'm wondering one thing though, about the motion freezing effect off HSS .... Would it be the actual time value setting (eg 1/2000th, 1/4000th) or is it the same as the mac sync speed (180th) which is the time it takes for the ' moving slit ' to travel across the whole frame ....?

This is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't any freezing of motion with HSS come mainly from the faster shutter speed? If I take a photo at 1/500th second using HSS flash, the flash will fire a series of very short bursts (of diminishing intensity?) over the course of the duration of the exposure, each of which will illuminate the subject in whatever position it is in. The subject will be illuminated (to some extent) at intervals over the course of the exposure. So I'm counting more on the short duration of the exposure than the short duration of illumination in order to freeze motion. Isn't that what @noblepa means in saying this?
"In HSS mode, the motion stopping ability is that of the physical shutter, which on most cameras is 1/4,000 or 1/8,000 second"

noblepa · 10-15-2016, 04:24 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Des

This is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't any freezing of motion with HSS come mainly from the faster shutter speed? If I take a photo at 1/500th second using HSS flash, the flash will fire a series of very short bursts (of diminishing intensity?) over the course of the duration of the exposure, each of which will illumate the subject in whatever position it is in. The subject will be illuminated (to some extent) at intervals over the course of the exposure. So I'm counting more on the short duration of the exposure than the short duration of illumination in order to freeze motion. Isn't that what @noblepa means in saying this?
"In HSS mode, the motion stopping ability is that of the physical shutter, which on most cameras is 1/4,000 or 1/8,000 second"

That is my understanding. In HSS mode, it is the physical shutter speed that stops motion, not the flash. So, if your shutter is set at 1/1000 second, it will have the same motion stopping ability as if you were shooting without a flash, in broad daylight.

I don't think that the bursts diminish in intensity. That would result in an uneven exposure across the image. Not a good thing. They are at REDUCED intensity, at least as compared to the normal non-HSS flash. But I think that all the bursts would have to be the same intensity and/or duration.

But then, I could be wrong... It wouldn't be the first time.

10-13-2016, 02:04 PM	#1
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	High Speed Flash Sync w/K10d I just purchased a ProMaster FL-160 to use with my Pentax K10d. This is the first flash I've had that is capable of HSS. I have set the flash to HSS mode by pressing the mode switch until a small H appears on the flash's LCD panel. According to the manual, this is the indicator for HSS. Since I've never used HSS before, I pulled out the PDF copy of the manual for my camera. It seems to indicate that, to use HSS, I simply set the camera to M or Tv modes, and set the flash to HSS (I've already done that). The manual, of course, only refers to the Pentax brand flashes, AF540FGZ and AF360FGZ. However, the camera will not let me set the shutter speed faster than 1/180 sec. So, no HSS. Is there anything else I need to do to enable HSS on my camera. This is a nice little flash and I got a really good price on it. Its brand new in the box. The camera firmware is version 1.31, the latest. Thanks for any help.

10-15-2016, 03:49 PM	#14
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,424	Originally posted by mcgregni I'm wondering one thing though, about the motion freezing effect off HSS .... Would it be the actual time value setting (eg 1/2000th, 1/4000th) or is it the same as the mac sync speed (180th) which is the time it takes for the ' moving slit ' to travel across the whole frame ....? This is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't any freezing of motion with HSS come mainly from the faster shutter speed? If I take a photo at 1/500th second using HSS flash, the flash will fire a series of very short bursts (of diminishing intensity?) over the course of the duration of the exposure, each of which will illuminate the subject in whatever position it is in. The subject will be illuminated (to some extent) at intervals over the course of the exposure. So I'm counting more on the short duration of the exposure than the short duration of illumination in order to freeze motion. Isn't that what @noblepa means in saying this? "In HSS mode, the motion stopping ability is that of the physical shutter, which on most cameras is 1/4,000 or 1/8,000 second" Last edited by Des; 10-15-2016 at 04:42 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
High-speed sync flash: why no manual mode?	DafTekno	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	35	04-16-2016 12:06 AM
High Speed Sync Flash question	Spodeworld	Pentax K-30 & K-50	5	11-30-2014 11:08 PM
high speed sync flash	Jool	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	14	08-24-2014 06:43 AM
High Speed flash sync?	telly0050	Pentax K-5 & K-5 II	15	05-28-2012 08:04 AM
Flash high speed sync.	Deni	Photographic Technique	22	08-26-2008 02:35 PM

10-13-2016, 02:22 PM	#2
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by noblepa I just purchased a ProMaster FL-160 to use with my Pentax K10d. This is the first flash I've had that is capable of HSS. I have set the flash to HSS mode by pressing the mode switch until a small H appears on the flash's LCD panel. According to the manual, this is the indicator for HSS. Since I've never used HSS before, I pulled out the PDF copy of the manual for my camera. It seems to indicate that, to use HSS, I simply set the camera to M or Tv modes, and set the flash to HSS (I've already done that). The manual, of course, only refers to the Pentax brand flashes, AF540FGZ and AF360FGZ. However, the camera will not let me set the shutter speed faster than 1/180 sec. So, no HSS. Is there anything else I need to do to enable HSS on my camera. This is a nice little flash and I got a really good price on it. Its brand new in the box. The camera firmware is version 1.31, the latest. Thanks for any help. I don't see a ton of info about that flash, but it looks like maybe its TTL only and not P-TTL capable and I don't think the K-10D supports TTL

10-13-2016, 02:22 PM	#3
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,476	@mcgregni I am unsure but the person above may have the answer.

10-13-2016, 02:37 PM - 1 Like	#4
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142 Original Poster	Originally posted by enoeske I don't see a ton of info about that flash, but it looks like maybe its TTL only and not P-TTL capable and I don't think the K-10D supports TTL Thanks for your replies. The answer, as is often the case, was RTFM (read the ****ing manual). A little further reading of the manual revealed that there is an additional step. I pressed the MODE button to select HSS, but I did not press the +/- button to toggle the feature on/off. When I did that, it worked as expected. I was able to set the shutter speed as high as I liked. Mea culpa. So far, this seems like a nice little flash. Some of its features: GN 158/48 (ft/m) at 105mm Optical slave (with option to ignore 1, 2 or 3 preflashes) Front/rear curtain sync. High Speed Sync Tilt/swivel Seven manual power levels (1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64) Focus assist beam Slow speed sync Auto Power zoom (24-105mm) Again, thanks for your replies.

10-13-2016, 03:36 PM	#5
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,476	Originally posted by noblepa Thanks for your replies. The answer, as is often the case, was RTFM (read the ****ing manual). A little further reading of the manual revealed that there is an additional step. I pressed the MODE button to select HSS, but I did not press the +/- button to toggle the feature on/off. When I did that, it worked as expected. I was able to set the shutter speed as high as I liked. Mea culpa. So far, this seems like a nice little flash. Some of its features: GN 158/48 (ft/m) at 105mm Optical slave (with option to ignore 1, 2 or 3 preflashes) Front/rear curtain sync. High Speed Sync Tilt/swivel Seven manual power levels (1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64) Focus assist beam Slow speed sync Auto Power zoom (24-105mm) Again, thanks for your replies. That was nice of you to post the entire solution. Someone else may have the same issue and find this thread. I'm glad it worked out.

10-13-2016, 05:17 PM	#6
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,912	So how high can you get the shutter speed? I am not familiar with the technology. Does this work with all cameras?

10-13-2016, 05:37 PM	#7
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by ChristianRock So how high can you get the shutter speed? I am not familiar with the technology. Does this work with all cameras? As high as the camera is capable, CR, with a cost in output power, obviously.

10-13-2016, 05:46 PM	#8
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,424	ProMaster FL160 TTL Flash - For Pentax #5048 - Flashes and Speedlights - Spec Sheet To my untutored eye, that looks quite a bargain for (on-camera) HSS, compared to say a Metz 48 or Pentax 360.

10-13-2016, 07:09 PM	#9
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	Originally posted by UncleVanya @mcgregni I am unsure but the person above may have the answer. I didn't, he seemed to have done it all right, but that little extra setting step would catch out plenty I'm sure! Sounds like a well specified flash .... Am I right to think that the Promaster is a rebadged Tumax model?

10-14-2016, 01:38 PM - 2 Likes	#10
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142 Original Poster	Originally posted by mcgregni I didn't, he seemed to have done it all right, but that little extra setting step would catch out plenty I'm sure! Sounds like a well specified flash .... Am I right to think that the Promaster is a rebadged Tumax model? I'm not sure who actually makes this flash. I do know that Promaster is not a manufacturer. They buy products from other manufacturers and put their name on them, just as Vivitar does. It very well could be made by Tumax. So far, I like it. The only significant feature is seems to be lacking is wireless flash control. I have seen nothing in the manual about that. For the earlier poster who was not familiar with HSS, it is a technique that allows flash pictures to be taken with the shutter speed faster than the camera's "synch" speed. On a Pentax dslr, that speed is 1/180 second. That is the fastest speed at which the shutter is completely open. At faster speeds, the trailing curtain begins to close before the leading curtain has finished its run. This results in a moving slit across the image sensor. An ordinary flash fires once (aside from the exposure-control pre-flash) at the instant the shutter is fully open. HSS mode allows the flash to fire multiple times, as the shutter traverses the image sensor. The cost is flash intensity. An HSS flash is not as bright as an ordinary flash. It also has less motion-stopping power. An ordinary flash may have a duration as short as 1/50,000 second. I think it is 1/20,000 on my Promaster flash. That will stop a bullet in flight. In HSS mode, the motion stopping ability is that of the physical shutter, which on most cameras is 1/4,000 or 1/8,000 second. Someone on a forum somewhere did an experiment to demonstrate this. He shot a tabletop fan (the kind used to provide a breeze in a hot room). with an ordinary flash exposure, the fan blades were perfectly frozen. In HSS mode, the fan blades were completely blurred. HSS is particularly effective as a fill flash in bright sunlight, to compensate for shadows that may fall across the face of your subject. In bright sunlight, a shutter speed of 1/180, even with an aperture of f/16 or f/22, may still be enough to overexpose the picture. By raising the shutter speed, you can control the exposure caused by the ambient light, while using the flash to fill in the faces of your subject.

10-14-2016, 03:46 PM	#11
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,424	That's as lucid an explanation of HSS as I've read since, well, @mcgregni (That's meant as high praise to both.)

10-14-2016, 04:12 PM	#12
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,476	Originally posted by mcgregni I didn't, he seemed to have done it all right, but that little extra setting step would catch out plenty I'm sure! Sounds like a well specified flash .... Am I right to think that the Promaster is a rebadged Tumax model? I'm not sure if it is a Tumax. My only Tumax that I owned ever was not HSS capable that I can tell. I still have the manual and even looked.

10-15-2016, 12:16 AM	#13
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	Originally posted by Des That's as lucid an explanation of HSS as I've read since, well, @mcgregni (That's meant as high praise to both.) Thanks, and yes, a good description above! I'm wondering one thing though, about the motion freezing effect off HSS .... Would it be the actual time value setting (eg 1/2000th, 1/4000th) or is it the same as the mac sync speed (180th) which is the time it takes for the ' moving slit ' to travel across the whole frame ....?

10-15-2016, 04:24 PM - 1 Like	#15
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142 Original Poster	Originally posted by Des This is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't any freezing of motion with HSS come mainly from the faster shutter speed? If I take a photo at 1/500th second using HSS flash, the flash will fire a series of very short bursts (of diminishing intensity?) over the course of the duration of the exposure, each of which will illumate the subject in whatever position it is in. The subject will be illuminated (to some extent) at intervals over the course of the exposure. So I'm counting more on the short duration of the exposure than the short duration of illumination in order to freeze motion. Isn't that what @noblepa means in saying this? "In HSS mode, the motion stopping ability is that of the physical shutter, which on most cameras is 1/4,000 or 1/8,000 second" That is my understanding. In HSS mode, it is the physical shutter speed that stops motion, not the flash. So, if your shutter is set at 1/1000 second, it will have the same motion stopping ability as if you were shooting without a flash, in broad daylight. I don't think that the bursts diminish in intensity. That would result in an uneven exposure across the image. Not a good thing. They are at REDUCED intensity, at least as compared to the normal non-HSS flash. But I think that all the bursts would have to be the same intensity and/or duration. But then, I could be wrong... It wouldn't be the first time.