motion blur with tripod

dewolf · 11-05-2016, 06:02 PM

It is rare that I ever use a tripod, but this morning in my yard I was shooting some of the early birds in low light. shutter speeds of 40-125/s showed motion blur, yet shots from 125/s and above were better and blur was gone around 200.I have shot many pictured at 1/40s to 1/80s hand held with no issues. The lens seems well centered on the mount, Motion correction was on. Is the slap back from the mirror that great that hand holding offers that much more stabilization? I would imagine the dampers for the mirror are not what they were when new, but seems odd that hand held is better? Its not a cheap tripod, but it isn't terribly pricey. It certainly has been solid. Perelli I think is the brand. actually don't a lot of long 30 second exposures with this tripod with no issues.

thoughts welcome

pathdoc · 11-05-2016, 06:06 PM

When using a tripod, ALWAYS turn image stabilisation OFF.

Adam · 11-05-2016, 06:41 PM

If shooting birds, also be sure to disable pixel shift. Use a remote or the self timer to reduce camera shake.

dewolf · 11-05-2016, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Adam

If shooting birds, also be sure to disable pixel shift. Use a remote or the self timer to reduce camera shake.

ok i have a remote trigger device. timers rarely work on wildlife, they are usually gone in 2 seconds lol. perhaps MUP as well.
Don't think my camera has pixel shift.

---------- Post added 11-05-16 at 09:48 PM ----------

Originally posted by pathdoc

When using a tripod, ALWAYS turn image stabilization OFF.

I have seen this mentioned before, about turning that off when on tripod, although I don't understand why <SNIP>
Yup just found several explanations of why on this forum

now I understand

Last edited by dewolf; 11-05-2016 at 07:16 PM.

**Alex645** · 11-05-2016, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by dewolf

I have seen this mentioned before, about turning that off when on tripod, although I dont understand why it would make a difference, but I will try that tomorrow morning, thats if the birds fall back 1 hour as I will

SR shake reduction on Pentax works by having the sensor shift or move to compensate any movement by the photographer. Like VR or IS which does this in CaNikon lenses, this will actually create blur if the camera is rock still on a tripod as it will move anticipating movement that isnʻt there.

I agree with the others that this is the cause of your blur.

Wouldnʻt it be helpful if there was a sensor on the tripod socket that automatically disables SR when connected to a tripod? I guess some folks leave the quick release shoe on when handheld, so thatʻd mess things up too.

dewolf · 11-05-2016, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Alex645

SR shake reduction on Pentax works by having the sensor shift or move to compensate any movement by the photographer. Like VR or IS which does this in CaNikon lenses, this will actually create blur if the camera is rock still on a tripod as it will move anticipating movement that isnʻt there.

I agree with the others that this is the cause of your blur.

Wouldnʻt it be helpful if there was a sensor on the tripod socket that automatically disables SR when connected to a tripod? I guess some folks leave the quick release shoe on when handheld, so thatʻd mess things up too.

I do leave the release shoe on, and so rarely use a tripod I may very well forget to turn SR off, at least a few times. I am doing experimental shooting in the yard while surgery heals. Hoping the Rookery is in full bloom when I get back up there

Thanks to all of you for the input.
Always appreciated.

DeWolf

**pasorro** · 11-05-2016, 10:13 PM

Blur can be made by the camera or the target, this shutter speed are lower than needed to birding, Birds move quickly also when you think they are quiet.
Sorry bad. English

CarlJF · 11-06-2016, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by pasorro

Blur can be made by the camera or the target, this shutter speed are lower than needed to birding, Birds move quickly also when you think they are quiet.
Sorry bad. English

Totally right! If the birds were blurry, it's because the speed was too slow for their movements. A tripod won't be of any help to freeze your subject movement. In fact, it could even make things worst by making you think you can use a low shutter speed...

Wheatfield · 11-06-2016, 07:37 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dewolf

It is rare that I ever use a tripod, but this morning in my yard I was shooting some of the early birds in low light. shutter speeds of 40-125/s showed motion blur, yet shots from 125/s and above were better and blur was gone around 200.I have shot many pictured at 1/40s to 1/80s hand held with no issues. The lens seems well centered on the mount, Motion correction was on. Is the slap back from the mirror that great that hand holding offers that much more stabilization? I would imagine the dampers for the mirror are not what they were when new, but seems odd that hand held is better? Its not a cheap tripod, but it isn't terribly pricey. It certainly has been solid. Perelli I think is the brand. actually don't a lot of long 30 second exposures with this tripod with no issues.

thoughts welcome

Pictures would help.

dewolf · 11-06-2016, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by CarlJF

Totally right! If the birds were blurry, it's because the speed was too slow for their movements. A tripod won't be of any help to freeze your subject movement. In fact, it could even make things worst by making you think you can use a low shutter speed...

These were standing quite still. I do expect motion blur if they move, but the blur direction was always the same,even when still. However trying the same setup with shake reduction off resolved the issue. this mornings birds were nice a crisp
even at 1/60th s.
Thanks for the info on that

DeWolf

photolady95 · 11-06-2016, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by dewolf

These were standing quite still.

They only look like they are standing still but they're really not. If you got a good shot with a lower shutter speed I would say you were lucky. Birds twitch even if you can't see it. A faster shutter speed would stop the blur.

99% of my photos are of birds.

dewolf · 11-06-2016, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by photolady95

They only look like they are standing still but they're really not. If you got a good shot with a lower shutter speed I would say you were lucky. Birds twitch even if you can't see it. A faster shutter speed would stop the blur.

99% of my photos are of birds.

Most of my pics are of birds as well, I'm pretty used to the twitching of the little birds, especially gnat catchers, fast little buggers.
But the blur I was speaking of included branches, limbs, bird feeder and other inanimate objects in the pic as well. This was mostly resolved with turning the shake correction off. The remaining blur after that was operator error and slow shutter.

photolady95 · 11-06-2016, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by dewolf

The remaining blur after that was operator error and slow shutter.

Exactly what I meant.

I've never shot a bird with less than 1/500s. Even on the tripod, the SR is also turned off. But I've seen written that some don't turn it off and seem to get satisfactory results.

dewolf · 11-06-2016, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by photolady95

Exactly what I meant.

I've never shot a bird with less than 1/500s. Even on the tripod, the SR is also turned off. But I've seen written that some don't turn it off and seem to get satisfactory results.

I have gotten some very sharp images at 1/60th hand held, but that's pretty rare for me nowdays. breath control plays a part in that and as a singer and flautist in the past I have that advantage sometimes, and that helps counter the Parkinsons if it's early in the day.
I tend to watch for the birds moment of stillness, or thought, between movements. some have more, some less. the larger birds, Herons and the like are pretty easy to predict because of their slow going. Gnat catchers, well, you barely have time to observe their still moments before they have moved on. I find myself often looking thru the viewfinder, wondering where the subject is gone off to.

But this lens, and camera do well at slow speeds usually. here are 2 pics hand held with no PP sharpening other than what occurs during resize.
even though they are not razor sharp by any means you will understand why i was confused when using a tripod made shots blurry

Thankfully that's solved now.

butterfly at 1/80 sec taken in July
squirrel at 1/50 sec. taken in October

I look forward to putting all of your help to use when I return to shooting in the field. till then its the back yard for me lol.

**Just1MoreDave** · 11-07-2016, 08:42 AM

I accidentally found a way to test a tripod - a long exposure of planes at night. The planes should make a nice even trace of light across the frame. Any jiggles are from the tripod or camera. It's easy here because I'm close to a busy airport, so planes are very regular. I can't think of another subject that would work as well.

11-05-2016, 06:02 PM	#1
dewolf Guest	motion blur with tripod It is rare that I ever use a tripod, but this morning in my yard I was shooting some of the early birds in low light. shutter speeds of 40-125/s showed motion blur, yet shots from 125/s and above were better and blur was gone around 200.I have shot many pictured at 1/40s to 1/80s hand held with no issues. The lens seems well centered on the mount, Motion correction was on. Is the slap back from the mirror that great that hand holding offers that much more stabilization? I would imagine the dampers for the mirror are not what they were when new, but seems odd that hand held is better? Its not a cheap tripod, but it isn't terribly pricey. It certainly has been solid. Perelli I think is the brand. actually don't a lot of long 30 second exposures with this tripod with no issues. thoughts welcome

11-05-2016, 06:41 PM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	If shooting birds, also be sure to disable pixel shift. Use a remote or the self timer to reduce camera shake. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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11-05-2016, 06:06 PM	#2
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	When using a tripod, ALWAYS turn image stabilisation OFF.

11-05-2016, 06:46 PM	#4
dewolf Guest	Originally posted by Adam If shooting birds, also be sure to disable pixel shift. Use a remote or the self timer to reduce camera shake. ok i have a remote trigger device. timers rarely work on wildlife, they are usually gone in 2 seconds lol. perhaps MUP as well. Don't think my camera has pixel shift. ---------- Post added 11-05-16 at 09:48 PM ---------- Originally posted by pathdoc When using a tripod, ALWAYS turn image stabilization OFF. I have seen this mentioned before, about turning that off when on tripod, although I don't understand why <SNIP> Yup just found several explanations of why on this forum now I understand Last edited by dewolf; 11-05-2016 at 07:16 PM.

11-05-2016, 07:15 PM	#5
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by dewolf I have seen this mentioned before, about turning that off when on tripod, although I dont understand why it would make a difference, but I will try that tomorrow morning, thats if the birds fall back 1 hour as I will SR shake reduction on Pentax works by having the sensor shift or move to compensate any movement by the photographer. Like VR or IS which does this in CaNikon lenses, this will actually create blur if the camera is rock still on a tripod as it will move anticipating movement that isnʻt there. I agree with the others that this is the cause of your blur. Wouldnʻt it be helpful if there was a sensor on the tripod socket that automatically disables SR when connected to a tripod? I guess some folks leave the quick release shoe on when handheld, so thatʻd mess things up too.

11-05-2016, 07:52 PM	#6
dewolf Guest	Originally posted by Alex645 SR shake reduction on Pentax works by having the sensor shift or move to compensate any movement by the photographer. Like VR or IS which does this in CaNikon lenses, this will actually create blur if the camera is rock still on a tripod as it will move anticipating movement that isnʻt there. I agree with the others that this is the cause of your blur. Wouldnʻt it be helpful if there was a sensor on the tripod socket that automatically disables SR when connected to a tripod? I guess some folks leave the quick release shoe on when handheld, so thatʻd mess things up too. I do leave the release shoe on, and so rarely use a tripod I may very well forget to turn SR off, at least a few times. I am doing experimental shooting in the yard while surgery heals. Hoping the Rookery is in full bloom when I get back up there Thanks to all of you for the input. Always appreciated. DeWolf

11-05-2016, 10:13 PM	#7
pasorro Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 132	Blur can be made by the camera or the target, this shutter speed are lower than needed to birding, Birds move quickly also when you think they are quiet. Sorry bad. English

11-06-2016, 06:47 AM	#8
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Originally posted by pasorro Blur can be made by the camera or the target, this shutter speed are lower than needed to birding, Birds move quickly also when you think they are quiet. Sorry bad. English Totally right! If the birds were blurry, it's because the speed was too slow for their movements. A tripod won't be of any help to freeze your subject movement. In fact, it could even make things worst by making you think you can use a low shutter speed...

11-06-2016, 07:37 AM - 1 Like	#9
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by dewolf It is rare that I ever use a tripod, but this morning in my yard I was shooting some of the early birds in low light. shutter speeds of 40-125/s showed motion blur, yet shots from 125/s and above were better and blur was gone around 200.I have shot many pictured at 1/40s to 1/80s hand held with no issues. The lens seems well centered on the mount, Motion correction was on. Is the slap back from the mirror that great that hand holding offers that much more stabilization? I would imagine the dampers for the mirror are not what they were when new, but seems odd that hand held is better? Its not a cheap tripod, but it isn't terribly pricey. It certainly has been solid. Perelli I think is the brand. actually don't a lot of long 30 second exposures with this tripod with no issues. thoughts welcome Pictures would help.

11-06-2016, 08:13 AM	#10
dewolf Guest	Originally posted by CarlJF Totally right! If the birds were blurry, it's because the speed was too slow for their movements. A tripod won't be of any help to freeze your subject movement. In fact, it could even make things worst by making you think you can use a low shutter speed... These were standing quite still. I do expect motion blur if they move, but the blur direction was always the same,even when still. However trying the same setup with shake reduction off resolved the issue. this mornings birds were nice a crisp even at 1/60th s. Thanks for the info on that DeWolf

11-06-2016, 09:20 AM	#11
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	Originally posted by dewolf These were standing quite still. They only look like they are standing still but they're really not. If you got a good shot with a lower shutter speed I would say you were lucky. Birds twitch even if you can't see it. A faster shutter speed would stop the blur. 99% of my photos are of birds.

11-06-2016, 03:28 PM	#12
dewolf Guest	Originally posted by photolady95 They only look like they are standing still but they're really not. If you got a good shot with a lower shutter speed I would say you were lucky. Birds twitch even if you can't see it. A faster shutter speed would stop the blur. 99% of my photos are of birds. Most of my pics are of birds as well, I'm pretty used to the twitching of the little birds, especially gnat catchers, fast little buggers. But the blur I was speaking of included branches, limbs, bird feeder and other inanimate objects in the pic as well. This was mostly resolved with turning the shake correction off. The remaining blur after that was operator error and slow shutter.

11-06-2016, 04:12 PM	#13
photolady95 Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Cruising the forum watching his back Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,712	Originally posted by dewolf The remaining blur after that was operator error and slow shutter. Exactly what I meant. I've never shot a bird with less than 1/500s. Even on the tripod, the SR is also turned off. But I've seen written that some don't turn it off and seem to get satisfactory results.

11-07-2016, 08:42 AM	#15
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	I accidentally found a way to test a tripod - a long exposure of planes at night. The planes should make a nice even trace of light across the frame. Any jiggles are from the tripod or camera. It's easy here because I'm close to a busy airport, so planes are very regular. I can't think of another subject that would work as well.