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11-12-2016, 03:18 PM   #136
Des
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When we started you were specifying 1080 video with 30fps. If you are willing to drop the video requirement altogether, there's a wealth of other options. The K-7, like the one UncleVanya linked to for $80 or thereabouts would be really good, and leave more in the budget for lenses and accessories.

11-12-2016, 03:30 PM   #137
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I tell you what, let's do it and just drop the video...let's see what recommendations you guys can come up with
11-12-2016, 03:37 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by camerateen Quote
I tell you what, let's do it and just drop the video...let's see what recommendations you guys can come up with
Just go get a film camera. I got my PZ-1P for $100 in like-new condition and it holds its own against my $1800 K-1. Very different beasts, but when I don't want a tank, the film camera is lighter, gives me an air of 'cool', and I think it's made me a better photographer. I do my own chemistry in my bathroom, but you can send your film off, if you must.

Alternately...

The K10D?

I got into photography in 2010, so my knowledge of older cameras is pretty limited.
11-12-2016, 03:44 PM   #139
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Film Camera!

Seriously though... We need to still with a bit newer technology, otherwise what was the point of dropping the video?

11-12-2016, 04:14 PM   #140
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If you are looking at older models (no video or very basic video), it will pay to look for what were the higher models at the time, because they had more rugged construction, will be more durable and have a longer shutter life. For example, in the Pentax range, in 2006 the K10D was a higher model and the K100D was entry-level and half the price, but in the secondhand market now there will be very little between them.

Here is a tool for comparing different Pentax models:
Pentax K10D vs. Pentax K20D vs. Pentax K-7 - Pentax Camera Comparison - PentaxForums.com
I have selected the K10D, K20D and K-7, as these were the top ("flagship") Pentax models of their time. You can see that the K10D had a 10 megapixel CCD sensor, whereas the K20D and K-7 had a 14 megapixel CMOS sensor (If you need to crop a photo - ie cut bits off it - the extra megapixels are an advantage) and added live view (that is, you could use the rear screen to focus). The K-7 introduced (basic) video capacity, as well as having a better processor, better metering and better autofocus and a number of other desirable features. But if you are just going on image quality, results are going to be virtually indistinguishable from the K20D.

Many people loved the K10D. Some people argue that the CCD sensor produced warmer colours. Look at this thread to see what it could do: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/242738-k10d-club.html

On a quick look on Gumtree UK there are plenty of K10D cameras for less than 100 pounds. People seem to be asking 200 pounds or more for a K20D or K-7 (which seems unrealistic to me). If that is representative of prices, maybe look for a K10D, and save the difference for lenses. It does make sense to reserve half your budget for lenses and accessories.

At less than 100 pounds the K10D is a good buy. Here's one for 80 pounds with a lens: https://www.gumtree.com/p/digital-cameras/pentax-k10d-slr-digital-camera/1199192172 And here is another for 100 pounds with an 18-55 lens, two batteries and a case: https://www.gumtree.com/p/digital-cameras/pentax-k10-d-camera-equipment-/1194317065
I don't think you could go wrong with these. The sellers might even come down a bit and offer free postage. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an item like this on Gumtree; you'll pay a lot more in a shop or even on ebay (because the seller needs to recover their fees).

Don't forget you will need one or more SD cards, but they wouldn't need to be particularly fast or large capacity. (In fact from memory my K100D Super couldn't use large-capacity cards - check the manual before buying.)

Note that all of these cameras had in-body image stabilisation, unlike almost all of their contermporary rivals. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (sorry, that's a metaphor that won't mean much to a 14yo!), that is an invaluable advantage, particularly shooting handheld.

Last edited by Des; 11-12-2016 at 07:05 PM.
11-12-2016, 04:37 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
Just go get a film camera. I got my PZ-1P for $100 in like-new condition and it holds its own against my $1800 K-1.
My first foray into film at 13 was a Yashica MAT-124 TLR medium format fixed 80mm Yashinon prime film camera. Imagine the resolution with Delta 100 or Ektar 100 of a 6x6 cm negative. And I still shoot Pentax 645 film because I canʻt afford digital medium format. But it is easier and faster to learn with a basic DSLR.

For Pentax, the K-5 is really the sweet spot between quality, features, and price. The only other flagship on my oldies but goodies is the D200, but itʻs much heavier and no vid.
For Nikon, the D200 or D7000 (smaller/lighter than D200 plus video) are in that oldies but still relevant window.
For Canon, the EOS 1100D (EOS Rebel T3 / EOS Kiss X50) or you might luck out and find an EOS Rebel SL1 (EOS 100D) in your budget.

Lens? 50mm primes are going to be inexpensive, sharp, and beautiful for portraits. That would be my starter unless you really want the versatility and compromises of an 18-55mm kit lens.
11-12-2016, 05:10 PM   #142
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I wouldn't advocate a film camera other than for 'exercise', it certainly teaches you to compose and expose properly when you know that every time you wind on and click that shutter there's no turning back!
I went back to film a couple of times recently 1) with a Zorki 1 (Russian copy of Henri Cartier Bresson's Leica) and 2) with a Hasselblad F1000 ...which was interesting, but then I returned to my DSLR and mirrorless, I like to take, erase, chimp and do it again sometimes.

---------- Post added 11-12-16 at 05:13 PM ----------

*scuse me 1000F

---------- Post added 11-12-16 at 05:49 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Photographers that only own Canon and Nikon are more religious and blind to how or why everything else is inferior
What a sweeping generalisation. I'm a Canon owner and have been for a number of years but I would not dream of saying "Hey Ignore all them Canon is best!"
I only advocated use of them based on my own experience of using them and because I know them, I am aware of the merits of other brands and am fully aware that Nikon and Pentax at least have various features that for the price put them above Canon. If I was a "religious" and "blind" Canon worshipper, why do you think I've joined this forum? The reason is because I love photography, I tried explaining this to another poster earlier but he was having none of it and it is as though he were trying to force me back into this same pre-determined slot.
11-12-2016, 05:59 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by camerateen Quote
I know it's a big ask, but is it possible, someone please post any photos and especially videos that they've taken with their pentax cameras? Please also make sure that you mention which model camera they were taken with.
Here's a few handheld videos I took with a K-5 and a cheap fast 50mm lens like several people recommended early on in the thread (the two lenses used are old-model Pentax lenses, sometimes available on the used market for very little money). I very rarely shoot videos, mostly because I find it a serious pain having to look at an LCD screen rather than through optical viewfinder. Given how a K-5 can't do autofocus during video, it means you constantly desperately see me trying to find proper focus (and fail). Of course, there are little third-party view finder attachments you can buy to aid in focusing if you want to do this kind of thing more often; these videos really serve as an example of what an unskilled beginner can do with this type of kit, much like you asked.
The audio on the first video was recorded through the internal mic, but on the other two I synched the video track with a recording made by someone else on a less inappropriate audio device. Keep in mind that the original image quality is degraded a bit by the YouTube algorithm.

Caution: language on the first one NSF either W or the ears of the sensitive/easily offended.


(K-5 + Pentax SMC-F f/1.7 50mm)


(K-5 + Pentax SMC-M f/1.7 50mm; this is a late 70s manual focus lens)


(K-5 + Pentax SMC-F f/1.7 50mm)

Photos taken with a K-5 you'll easily find on this forum, but FWIW some I took (with that same lens) at that last show (other band, though) are here: Hiperson | Flickr

11-12-2016, 06:08 PM   #144
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Nice

...those are pretty good, now I see why the OP said he thought Pentax video was ok. I don't think AF is important with video, I'm pretty sure quite a lot of videographers use MF lenses and I've had a go too (using a Samyang 12mm) and the results were pretty good too, I couldn't do anything with the focus anyway after I'd set it because the whole rig was on a steadycam.

---------- Post added 11-12-16 at 06:19 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Photator Quote
...those are pretty good, now I see why the OP said he thought Pentax video was ok. I don't think AF is important with video, I'm pretty sure quite a lot of videographers use MF lenses and I've had a go too (using a Samyang 12mm) and the results were pretty good too, I couldn't do anything with the focus anyway after I'd set it because the whole rig was on a steadycam.
...I wonder if you struggled with focus because it was dark and your aperture was fairly wide?
When I videoed using my Samyang 12mm, it was bright and sunny so I was running around with the lens set at about F11, keeping a similar distance from my subject so it all stayed in focus.
11-12-2016, 07:20 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Photator Quote
What a sweeping generalisation. I'm a Canon owner and have been for a number of years but I would not dream of saying "Hey Ignore all them Canon is best!"
Sorry if I offended you, but I didnʻt write that all are this way. I understand from the earlier posts that you are not "one of these people". I would hope any generalization is understood to have exceptions. I myself use Nikon as well as Pentax, but I do know dozens of pros, hobbyists, amateurs, and students, and the majority came to their own decisions for whatever reasons or not and are fairly hardcore about their opinions.

Most photography channels or sites are more objective, but you can still read the bias by the language of how they critique the gear.

I also do not equate "religious" and "blind" as one in the same. Religious to me means an organized faith followed by many. Blind to me means a choice not to see or to consider objectivity. Although I donʻt consider myself religious, I do consider myself spiritual, and certainly one could argue an atheist or an anarchist is blind.

Bottomline: The OP should explore other forums if heʻs not yet convinced that Pentax is his answer. But I would think on PF, weʻre going to give the Pentax view. With your familiarity with Canon, I understand that youʻre sharing what you thought was the best Canon for the OP.
11-12-2016, 07:31 PM - 1 Like   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
For Pentax, the K-5 is really the sweet spot between quality, features, and price. The only other flagship on my oldies but goodies is the D200, but itʻs much heavier and no vid.
The K-5 was obviously a big leap forward from the K-7 and earlier models particularly for low-light and higher-ISO shooting. Trouble is, the OP just can't get a K-5 in the UK within the budget.

Nikon D200 is a nice get. Similar vintage and same sensor as the K10D (10mp CCD). Specs are comparable: Pentax K10D vs Nikon D200 Detailed Comparison
Very good range of lenses with each. Nikon advantages are faster frame rate, better AF, better metering, maybe better dynamic range, magnesium alloy body; contemporary reviews described it as a much better camera than the K10D. But the Pentax is lighter, and has IBIS. And from a quick look on Gumtree the Nikon will fit within budget but cost about 80-100 pounds more than the K10D, leaving next to nothing for lenses and accessories.

Using Gumtree UK again, Nikon D7000 seems to run at about 300 pounds, Canon 1100D about 170 pounds, Canon 100D more than 200 pounds.

K10D for 80-100 pounds, and 100-120 pounds for lenses and accessories is looking pretty good for a very tight budget.

Interesting to look at contemporary comparisons with the K10D: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/PentaxK10D/page6.shtml This review also rated the Nikon D80 and Sony Alpha A100 as serious competition.

The Nikon D80 seems to be a bit more than the K10D. And of course no IBIS.

The Sony could be worth considering: same sensor as the D200 and K10D, IBIS, lighter weight and could use any of the Sony or Konica/Minolta A-mount lenses. It seems to be about the same price on Gumtree as the K10D. Here's one for 100 pounds: https://www.gumtree.com/p/digital-cameras/sony-a100-digital-slr/1196827563

Last edited by Des; 11-13-2016 at 04:30 AM.
11-12-2016, 07:45 PM   #147
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For the most part it is you get what you pay for but I did find many people do not understand the older power zoom lenses. They think they are broken but the have a ring that locks the focus in place. I got all the lenses in the picture for under $100.00 total.
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11-12-2016, 08:21 PM - 2 Likes   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
Interesting to look at contemporary comparisons with the K10D: Pentax K10D full review Cameralabs verdict This review also rated the Nikon D80 and Sony Alpha A100 as serious competition.

The Sony could be worth considering[/URL]
Yes if the OP budget shall not budge, then the K10D is looking good here. For me personally, having used a pentaprism all my life, EVF and pentamirrors are deal breakers. Lag and difficulty manual focusing for EVF, and pentamirror OVF size and darkness. The Sony alpha A100 has a pentamirror.

The Nikon D80 is another great alternative, but Nikon glass is not going to make his budget. A new Pentax DA 50mm f/1.8 at $76 right now is incredible.
11-12-2016, 08:54 PM - 1 Like   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kharan Quote
With the original E-M10, yes. An E-M5 would likely mean a stretch, but nothing extraordinary. Of course, they have to buy used.
When I used the original E-M10 I had to put it down in a matter of seconds. That older EVF has so much lag it made me dizzy... I have no issues with the EVF of the A6000 series or the Fuji X100T - but the EM10 was pretty bad.

QuoteOriginally posted by camerateen Quote
What I'm trying to say is that we all know that my budget is low, so why not start looking at other brands too, so that it gives a larger choice and more chances of getting a bargain?
.
If you have the time - and feel so inclined - why not post on some other camera brand forums? I think that will help... one of the main reasons being that most of us here know brands other than Pentax but don't have extensive experience with them. Me personally, I just know enough to know that I want to stick with Pentax, but your needs might be different So why not look around.

QuoteOriginally posted by camerateen Quote
I tell you what, let's do it and just drop the video...let's see what recommendations you guys can come up with
In that case, I would say why not start with a K10D? I love the output from mine and it's my "fun camera".

Otherwise, the suggestions remain the same... K-5 or K-S1 if you can swing one in your price range, if not, the K-r and K-x are very capable of producing great pictures as well.

Last edited by ChristianRock; 11-12-2016 at 08:59 PM.
11-12-2016, 09:03 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Sorry if I offended you, but I didnʻt write that all are this way. I understand from the earlier posts that you are not "one of these people". I would hope any generalization is understood to have exceptions. I myself use Nikon as well as Pentax, but I do know dozens of pros, hobbyists, amateurs, and students, and the majority came to their own decisions for whatever reasons or not and are fairly hardcore about their opinions.

Most photography channels or sites are more objective, but you can still read the bias by the language of how they critique the gear.

I also do not equate "religious" and "blind" as one in the same. Religious to me means an organized faith followed by many. Blind to me means a choice not to see or to consider objectivity. Although I donʻt consider myself religious, I do consider myself spiritual, and certainly one could argue an atheist or an anarchist is blind.

Bottomline: The OP should explore other forums if heʻs not yet convinced that Pentax is his answer. But I would think on PF, weʻre going to give the Pentax view. With your familiarity with Canon, I understand that youʻre sharing what you thought was the best Canon for the OP.
Ok ..no hard feelings :-)
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