[tcom]

Hi

Have you ever experienced that your K-1 suddenly locks, not reacting to any button, not even to the shutter, for something like 10 - 20 seconds?

I had that experience on the very first evening I had the K-1 while shooting an event, back on May 6th. Back then, I experienced that lockup a few times, but was unable to reproduce it. I noticed Ricoh Imaging asking if it was a known issue of firmware 1.0, but no, the issue was unknown. Over the coming weeks, I tried to use the K-1 as much as possible covering events with it and encountered the issue quite a few times until I was able to nail down the problem and reproduce it.

When working for the press, I usually have tight schedule and learned to use even the shortest breaks to review and sort the photos (ie. deleting bad ones) as a deleted photo takes no transfer time to the computer, no time to get imported and I don't even have to take valuable time on Lightroom to review a bad photo. I have to admit that I am using this workflow whenever I take photos, not only when working on a tight schedule. Typically, when taking portraits in the streets, I take a few photos, check the photos, delete the bad ones and re-take the photos if needed.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the issue with the K-1. When you delete a photo while there is still data to be written to the memory card, the camera locks until all data is written on the card.

I am not necessarily expecting a camera to be able to write and delete photos at the same time. But my expectations toward a modern DSLR is whenever I press the shutter, the photo is taken. If the K-1 is unable to delete a photo when there is still data in the buffer without locking up, why can't the camera simply prevent the user from deleting photos in such a case? I won't be able to delete a photo, but then, it would prevent me from locking the camera...

I reported the whole issue to Ricoh Imaging back in May with a procedure to reproduce it. The issue was successfully reproduced by Ricoh Imaging, but despite four firmware updates, the issue is still present.

Believe me, the K-1 would be enough for most of the events I am covering for the press and I would really prefer using the K-1 instead of the much heavier Nikon gear like the D810 or D5. I would even take a second K-1. But for the time being, the K-1 stays at home most of the time. I am at a point where I ask myself if I should keep the K-1 just to check if an upcoming firmware update fixes the problem or give up and sell the K-1 as long as it still has a good value on the market.

Ricoh Imaging mentions I am the only one reporting the issue...

Am I really the only one?

[biz-engineer]

Unfortunately, this is exactly the issue with the K-1. When you delete a photo while there is still data to be written to the memory card, the camera locks until all data is written on the card.

I shoot SD1 first and I transfer the keepers from SD1 to SD2, then I format SD1 when full. This way, it is much faster than trying to delete the photos that I don't want to keep.

[Adam]

Well the way the K-1 (or any Pentax) deletes files is weird to begin with. With the other brands I've tried, there's no wait or progress bar after deleting. On the Pentax, sometimes it can take a second or two before the file finishes deleting.

[tcom]

Well the way the K-1 (or any Pentax) deletes files is weird to begin with. With the other brands I've tried, there's no wait or progress bar after deleting. On the Pentax, sometimes it can take a second or two before the file finishes deleting.

True, I can live with having to wait a second or two, but if the camera is locked for 10 - 20 seconds because it first needs to write a few RAW files to the card is really annoying.

[Rudy]

Hi

Have you ever experienced that your K-1 suddenly locks, not reacting to any button, not even to the shutter, for something like 10 - 20 seconds?

I had that experience on the very first evening I had the K-1 while shooting an event, back on May 6th. Back then, I experienced that lockup a few times, but was unable to reproduce it. I noticed Ricoh Imaging asking if it was a known issue of firmware 1.0, but no, the issue was unknown. Over the coming weeks, I tried to use the K-1 as much as possible covering events with it and encountered the issue quite a few times until I was able to nail down the problem and reproduce it.

When working for the press, I usually have tight schedule and learned to use even the shortest breaks to review and sort the photos (ie. deleting bad ones) as a deleted photo takes no transfer time to the computer, no time to get imported and I don't even have to take valuable time on Lightroom to review a bad photo. I have to admit that I am using this workflow whenever I take photos, not only when working on a tight schedule. Typically, when taking portraits in the streets, I take a few photos, check the photos, delete the bad ones and re-take the photos if needed.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the issue with the K-1. When you delete a photo while there is still data to be written to the memory card, the camera locks until all data is written on the card.

I am not necessarily expecting a camera to be able to write and delete photos at the same time. But my expectations toward a modern DSLR is whenever I press the shutter, the photo is taken. If the K-1 is unable to delete a photo when there is still data in the buffer without locking up, why can't the camera simply prevent the user from deleting photos in such a case? I won't be able to delete a photo, but then, it would prevent me from locking the camera...

I reported the whole issue to Ricoh Imaging back in May with a procedure to reproduce it. The issue was successfully reproduced by Ricoh Imaging, but despite four firmware updates, the issue is still present.

Believe me, the K-1 would be enough for most of the events I am covering for the press and I would really prefer using the K-1 instead of the much heavier Nikon gear like the D810 or D5. I would even take a second K-1. But for the time being, the K-1 stays at home most of the time. I am at a point where I ask myself if I should keep the K-1 just to check if an upcoming firmware update fixes the problem or give up and sell the K-1 as long as it still has a good value on the market.

Ricoh Imaging mentions I am the only one reporting the issue...

Am I really the only one?

After the latest firmware update the button to playback and the pictures is not working all the time. I am not sure if this is related.

[stevebrot]

Unfortunately, this is exactly the issue with the K-1. When you delete a photo while there is still data to be written to the memory card, the camera locks until all data is written on the card.

This sounds like a fail-safe data management approach resulting in clumsy side-effect for a corner case. This is the sort of thing that often gets caught during a development QA cycle and for which a fix is typically deferred indefinitely or which get marked "won't fix". (Tell me, how common is image review/deletion while waiting for the capture buffer to clear? You may well be the only one.)


Steve

[stevebrot]

After the latest firmware update the button to playback and the pictures is not working all the time. I am not sure if this is related.

Probably not. You might want to consider a separate thread and a more detailed characterization (i.e. steps to reproduce) of what you are seeing.


Steve

[tcom]

This sounds like a fail-safe data management approach resulting in clumsy side-effect for a corner case. This is the sort of thing that often gets caught during a development QA cycle and for which a fix is typically deferred indefinitely or which get marked "won't fix". (Tell me, how common is image review/deletion while waiting for the capture buffer to clear? You may well be the only one.)

Steve

I have no doubt, most users will never encounter the issue. For me however, it is common enough to have the K-1 locked up way too often.

On the first evening I used the K-1 back in May, I had the issue 8 times within 40 minutes. Now, being aware of the problem, I lockup the camera less often, but still too often.

[pathdoc]

"You never count your money / when you're sitting at the table
There'll be time enough for counting / when the dealin's done."
- Kenny Rogers "The Gambler"

Kill your useless pictures AFTER you are done shooting. That camera's control system was designed to enable you to keep your eye in the viewfinder at all times; use it to the full.

@biz-engineer How easy is that card-to-card transfer in-camera? If I want to process raw files in camera (as I currently do with the K-5 for some single-in shots), am I able to choose which card the processed JPGs go to?

[disasterfilm]

FYI: a former director of marketing at Lexar recently wrote an article recommending against deleting photos in-camera and providing plenty of reasoning why.

It's a good read here: Why you should not delete images on your memory card using your camera - DIY Photography

I know that's the opposite of what you're asking for in this thread, to guide you perhaps toward a different workflow, but if it unknowingly saves you from corrupting an SD card or mangling your in-card FAT table, then it's probably a net gain for you in the long run. And certainly a benefit in the risk-reduction sense of losing a whole card (or having to suffer through data recovery).

[Sandy Hancock]

As the past two posters have intimated, I think it might be best to consider changing your workflow. Personally, when I'm shooting events I only look at my images to see whether exposure changes are needed, or whether I completely muffed a shot and need to try to re-do it.

It doesn't take long to delete the bloopers in Lightroom afterwards, and the more marginal ones are best assessed on a big screen anyway. As for import time - that's when you make a coffee Anyway, you don't have to wait for all the images to import before you start editing.

[tcom]

@pathdoc: when you have five minutes after the shooting to submit your photos to the medias, you optimize the workflow wherever you can. It is pretty common way of working.

@disasterfilm: yes, in an ideal world, you have all the time you want to copy the photos, process and sort them. But when working for the press, the schedule is different, you need to deliver quality work on time to get paid.

---------- Post added 12-18-2016 at 10:45 PM ----------

@Sandy: ok, let's take an example. Concert starts at 9pm, the singer comes on stage with the usual few minutes delay, you are allowed shooting three first songs and get out of the hall at around 9:20 pm. You need five minutes to get to the press room and your deadline from the newspaper is 9:30pm. Believe me, you take the coffee either before the concert or once the photos are submitted.

[Sandy Hancock]

@pathdoc: when you have five minutes after the shooting to submit your photos to the medias, you optimize the workflow wherever you can. It is pretty common way of working.

@disasterfilm: yes, in an ideal world, you have all the time you want to copy the photos, process and sort them. But when working for the press, the schedule is different, you need to deliver quality work on time to get paid.

Well if that really is the time frame you are working with, I retract my comment. Use the CaNikons

[tcom]

Unfortunately, this is a pretty common time frame I have to deal with. Even Lightroom gets too time consuming at such conditions. I now prefer to first use Photomechanics to kake the first selection as the preview rendering is way faster and only import the few selected photos to Lightroom.

I am using Nikon since a few years to cover events. The tight schedules have trained me into this workflow. The K-1 would be good enough for most events I cover (except sports), but I constantly lock the camera...

Again, my main issue is that the camera allows me to perform an operation which will lock the camera up for quite a few seconds. The lockup issue could be solved if the camera would grey out the delete button on the gui while there is data in the buffer.

[stevebrot]

ok, let's take an example. Concert starts at 9pm, the singer comes on stage with the usual few minutes delay, you are allowed shooting three first songs and get out of the hall at around 9:20 pm. You need five minutes to get to the press room and your deadline from the newspaper is 9:30pm. Believe me, you take the coffee either before the concert or once the photos are submitted.

Show me the part where you need to delete photos. Submit the good ones and leave the rest on the card. If you insist on using a workflow that results in your card only being 5% full at the end of shoot, so be it. A move to another brand that allows your flow with no delay is a good idea. BTW...I might suggest that if lighter kit is a priority, APS-C might be a better format.


Steve