[Judi]

Hi Everyone: I have read posts in this forum on and off for years. I have been loyal to Pentax for some time now. I traded my Pentax K200D for a K20D two years ago. The K20D is heavier but has more features and an ISO of 3200max.
I am not very knowledgable as much as I try. I remember when using ASA400 film was risky if you wanted a real sharp image, and now ISO's are in the 1000's. I am going on a driving trip through Eastern Canada this summer and it seems like a great time to start taking photos again. I signed up for an evening of photo instruction in night photography at Hopewell Rocks in New Brunswick. Sadly the guide and mentor says my K20D is only 'very minimally adequate' for night photography. A new camera isn't really in my budget but I do want to expand my capabilities and practice of photography.
I was shocked when I did a little research and found newer cameras with ISO over 50,000 to 100,000!
How much does lenses choice affect photographing at night?
Thanks so much for your anticipated input.
Judi

[mikeSF]

Hi Judi, yes cameras have gotten better at high ISO in recent years.
If you are talking about handheld low light shooting where you need a reasonably fast shutter, yes, the K20D gets noisy above ISO1600, iirc.
I do night landscape and use long exposures; thus, I keep my ISO at 100 pretty much always, unless there is a moving object involved that I need to keep sharp.

[Painter]

While it may be true that the K20D doesn't match the high ISO numbers of new cameras there is nothing to prevent great night time photography. They key is a tripod.

[08amczb]

Hi Judi! Welcome to the forum!
The maximum aperture of the lens affects the night photography much. You can trade depth of field to light. Shooting at F4.0 at ISO 400 with 1/60s is the same exposeure as shooting at F2.0 ISO 100 1/60s. So getting a fast prime is essential in low light. I suggest you to get a used DA 50 F1.8 used. This is the cheapest autofocus option.
If you are serious about night photography you must carry a tripod and use low ISO, long shutter speed, I think the K20D controlls the noise well up to ISO1600. You can sharpen at post processing. Always shoot raw to get the maximum out of the images. (There is an extended ISO setting somewhere on the K20D to enable ISO 6400 for "emergency".)

[photoptimist]

First, please don't be discouraged if newer cameras are better unless you had your heart set on become some kind of award-winning National Geographic photographer of the year with your current camera.

A lot can be done at lower ISOs on older cameras by using longer bulb exposures or stacking. Sure, the new cameras make it easier and faster to get clean images, but people have been doing night photography since the first digital cameras came out. Even if your camera is only very minimally adequate, you can still take the class, learn the skills, and try out night photography to see what you think of driving to quiet dark places, setting up your gear, and then watching the night sky while the camera takes 5 minutes or a hour to gather night-sky image data. Then you can decide if you really enjoy the process enough to spend money on to get the noise level of your images down.

Overall, the larger the aperture of the lens, the better. Beyond that basic rule, there's three types of lens choices: the widest possible lens (for night landscapes and meteor showers), the brightest possible lens (e.g., a bright 50mm for star fields or constellations), and the biggest possible lens (high-end telephoto or a telescope for space objects like planets, nebulae, and galaxies ). Also the moon is basically a sun-lit landscape -- it doesn't need super high ISO.

And remember that digital pictures are virtually free. There's a lot you can learn simply by trying stuff, looking at the results, and trying something else.

Good luck, have fun, and I hope you post your results.

[dms]

K20d is probably better at night photography than any camera (film or digital) that was available before 2005, and lots of great night photos were taken before 2005. The same methods apply using it as the even better for night camera's.

My estimate is the K20d in usage, not tests, is about 1 stop worse than K-5. And K-5 (as regards sensor) is probably as good as any Pentax cropped sensor dslr to date. Use the K-20d up to iso 1600 and you should be good to go. Just practice and immediately review shots--that is what the digital cameras let you do.

And if at all possible shoot in camera raw, and use a more recent capable pp software--that is where IMO the real progress has been.

And ignore information about iso 100,000 and the like. Do you want pictures to prove who it was (law enforcement, etc.) or artful photo's? In any Pentax camera there is probably no advantage in going above iso 1600. You lose the stops of light in the low light end of the image dynamic range that you gained in iso.

---------- Post added 04-11-17 at 11:34 AM ----------

About lenses--I would most strongly suggest your lens has a distance scale on it--night photo's often mean you need to look at the lens and set the distance manually. Also for general usage a shorter focal length prime lens is more useful.

I would think as a general usage lens a 28mm or 35 mm f/2 would be good. I don't use auto focus (AF) under such situations--but something like the FA 35mm f/2 (AF lens) is likely a good choice. My manual 35mm f/2 (K) lens is often my choice. Either of these lenses will be (as a guess) about $200 - $250. But if you have a reasonably fast prime that is what you should be trying out before spending money.

[shardulm]

While it may be true that the K20D doesn't match the high ISO numbers of new cameras there is nothing to prevent great night time photography. They key is a tripod.

Well said. As a matter of fact I prefer a tripod over an increased ISO if it is an option.

[alpheios]

Like others said before it really depends on what kind of night photography we are talking about here. If it's about shooting handheld with high ISO then the K20D is not that capable. If we are talking long exposure photography on a tripod then you should look for a different guide/mentor rather than a newer camera. I had a K200D and was able to do really amazing long exposure night photography like city scapes and light painting with it.

[aaacb]

Here are some night photos from the K20D flickr group Search: night | Flickr

[Auzzie-Phoenix]

The real question is "What do you want to shoot at night?". Are you wanting to do astro fields or astro-landscapes, or are you trying to do night wildlife, etc... Everyone has offered great information regarding general night shooting, namely tripods, low iso/long exposure shots (and of course a remote control is a good idea). Wide angle fast/medium primes are also a good suggestion that was mentioned. Knowing WHAT you intend to shoot will help set up a framework to work within for settings, lenses, and other things.

If you do plan on doing night wildlife shots, please remember that flash photography creates a hazard to wildlife, and will startle your subject. I suggest longer prime lenses in the f4 aperture range on a night with good moonlight. ISO 800 should be adequate if your subject isn't moving around too much, but remember that you won't get nearly the detail or contrast that you'd have during the day, plus any movement will cause blur. For astro/astrolandscape, people have already weighed in so I'm not about to beat a dead horse. I will suggest getting a few spare batteries though, since long exposures hammer the battery more than well lit daytime shots. But the most important thing to do... is to enjoy the process and have fun with it. So I will wish you luck in your learning.

[Just1MoreDave]

The bigger limitation of the K20D at night is no live view. Live view makes focusing easier when it's too dark for autofocus. I used a K-7 and that's basically the same sensor, except with live view.

You can clean up the noise from the K20D shots very well with any recent software. I would suggest 1600 as an upper limit. The sensor starts to have very limited dynamic range above 1600. You can get rid of the noise but some scenes really need the dynamic range to look right. So if you have a choice between a longer shutter speed and lower ISO, or high ISO and shorter shutter times, the lower ISO will mean a better image unless the subject is moving.

[35mmfilmfan]

The bigger limitation of the K20D at night is no live view

Er - my K20D has live view. Are there two versions ?

[Simen1]

To put some perspective into new ISO, don't be confused by new cameras with ISO 100 000 or so. Its more marketing then real value. A camera with ISO 100 000 must probably be set to ISO 3200 - 6400* to match the noise performance from ISO 1600 on your K20D. In other words, the new ISO levels pushes the noise to new levels, even if there is some noise improvement as well.

* This rough estimate is only valid if you use raw formats on both the compared cameras and use the same modern raw converter. If you use in camera jpeg, the difference will be larger since jpeg processing in cameras have improved over the years as well.

Again, assuming you use raw, the difference between your camera and a new is only 1-2 stops in noise performance at reasonable ISOs. That means that a lens with 1-2 stops larger aperture may improve as much as upgrading to a new camera. That said, there was quite a large improvement in noise performance (raw) from K20D/K-7 to K-5. Upgrading from K20D to a used K-5 is a budget way of increasing noise performance.

I will say a tripod is the first and most important step to night photography. Then maybe a prime lens like DA50/1,8 or DA35/2,4 or a used K-5.

[BrianR]

If anyone wants to google "night photography hopewell rocks" you will find the workshop the OP is probably talking about. Landscape/astro stuff at a seaside natural rock landmark, and the emphasis seems to be on non-star trail images.

[35mmfilmfan]

Upgrading from K20D to a used K-5 is a budget way of increasing noise performance

Just looked on Ebay - the cheapest K5 is currently at a bid of more than I paid for my K10D & K20D combined, and it's a body-only deal. Budget to some, maybe.