Bellows for dummies

IgorZ · 06-22-2017, 03:39 PM

So I picked up bellows and slapped on a Helios 44 thinking I'd do some macro photography, but I can't focus on anything! The closest thing to being even remotely in focus was a car some 15 meters away. And I mean it was pretty far from being in focus. Just everything closer looked like multicoloured blobs. I watched a couple of videos, thinking maybe I have to have a macro lens, but that doesn't seem to be the case. But I haven't figured out how to focus the thing...

photoptimist · 06-22-2017, 04:02 PM

A bellows should not do that. You don't need a macro lens for close-focusing with a bellows although macro lenses typically are sharper than non-macros.

Does your Helios focus normally when not on the bellows? Could there be elements missing from the Helios?

Is there any glass inside the bellows? (There shouldn't be.)

**chuck_c** · 06-22-2017, 04:41 PM

You might find this helpful:

The Pentax Bellows eBook - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

IgorZ · 06-22-2017, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by photoptimist

A bellows should not do that. You don't need a macro lens for close-focusing with a bellows although macro lenses typically are sharper than non-macros.

Does your Helios focus normally when not on the bellows? Could there be elements missing from the Helios?

Is there any glass inside the bellows? (There shouldn't be.)

I tried three lenses that work fine without the bellows, and none would focus. The closest one to having anything in focus was a Mir 37mm f2.8. I don't have a wider M42 lens, so couldn't try anything else. There is no glass inside the bellows..

---------- Post added 06-22-17 at 07:29 PM ----------

Originally posted by chuck_c

You might find this helpful:

The Pentax Bellows eBook - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

Thanks! Will check it out

Not a Number · 06-22-2017, 11:01 PM

The 100mm f/4 Bellows lens can focus to infinity.

With a 58mm lens and a bellows extension of 59mm magnification is ~1×. Distance from the camera sensor to subject in focus is 228mm (8.98 inches). Amount of extension is measured from the camera mount to the front of the lens mount on the bellows.

At 118mm of extension the magnification is ~2.0× with a subject to sensor distance of 257mm (10.12 inches). So the lens is 29mm (1.14 in) closer to the subject.

Make sure your lens is close enough to the subject in order to focus.

TaoMaas · 06-23-2017, 05:57 AM

It almost sounds like you're trying lenses that are too short. I'm going to guess that the area of focus is so close that you may not have checked there. If a lens focuses fine without a bellows, there's nothing in the bellows that should mess that up.

photoptimist · 06-23-2017, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

It almost sounds like you're trying lenses that are too short. I'm going to guess that the area of focus is so close that you may not have checked there. If a lens focuses fine without a bellows, there's nothing in the bellows that should mess that up.

That's what I'm thinking, too.

Even at minimum extension (bellows fully compressed flat), the typical bellows adds at least a few centimeters of extension. The point of focus might be almost touching the filter ring.

**Skodadriver** · 06-23-2017, 07:47 AM

No way am I much of a macro photographer but have tried bellows and not been able to focus on something 15 metres away.
Try your other lenses.
Or put your K-5 in live view, hold the lens in front of the body. 3 to 5 cms away and put an object in front say 25cms away then move the lens backwards and forwards between the body and the object. You should get a point where the object is focussed (or close to it). Then move the object closer.
That should give you an idea of bellows extension and object distance required.
Or I have given you a lot of hassle without any reward. I hope it works.

stevebrot · 06-23-2017, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Skodadriver

No way am I much of a macro photographer but have tried bellows and not been able to focus on something 15 metres away.

Yes, this is pretty typical with most bellows. Even those with the slimmest front/rear standards add 50-60mm extension at minimum. With a lens such as the Helios 44 58mm that translates to an instant 1:1 reproduction ratio and a focus distance of about 23 cm.* Infinity focus is not available except with dedicated bellows lenses featuring a long flange registration distance or adapted medium/large format lenses.

Steve

* I actually have this setup with the Helios 44. For general closeup use where 1x or greater magnification is not required, bellows is a poor solution. In fact, even a slender 12mm extension tube is not very workable with shorter than 100mm focal length.

IgorZ · 06-26-2017, 07:55 AM

You guys were right, I could focus it with a 135mm lens. Thanks for your help!

TaoMaas · 06-27-2017, 05:01 AM

Cool! I'm glad you got it figured out.

A bellows and a 135mm lens is a nice set-up for shooting flowers.

06-22-2017, 03:39 PM	#1
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Bellows for dummies So I picked up bellows and slapped on a Helios 44 thinking I'd do some macro photography, but I can't focus on anything! The closest thing to being even remotely in focus was a car some 15 meters away. And I mean it was pretty far from being in focus. Just everything closer looked like multicoloured blobs. I watched a couple of videos, thinking maybe I have to have a macro lens, but that doesn't seem to be the case. But I haven't figured out how to focus the thing...

06-23-2017, 06:47 PM	#9
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Skodadriver No way am I much of a macro photographer but have tried bellows and not been able to focus on something 15 metres away. Yes, this is pretty typical with most bellows. Even those with the slimmest front/rear standards add 50-60mm extension at minimum. With a lens such as the Helios 44 58mm that translates to an instant 1:1 reproduction ratio and a focus distance of about 23 cm.* Infinity focus is not available except with dedicated bellows lenses featuring a long flange registration distance or adapted medium/large format lenses. Steve * I actually have this setup with the Helios 44. For general closeup use where 1x or greater magnification is not required, bellows is a poor solution. In fact, even a slender 12mm extension tube is not very workable with shorter than 100mm focal length. Last edited by stevebrot; 06-23-2017 at 06:59 PM.

06-26-2017, 07:55 AM	#10
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735 Original Poster	You guys were right, I could focus it with a 135mm lens. Thanks for your help! Last edited by IgorZ; 06-29-2017 at 08:02 AM.

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06-22-2017, 04:02 PM	#2
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,129	A bellows should not do that. You don't need a macro lens for close-focusing with a bellows although macro lenses typically are sharper than non-macros. Does your Helios focus normally when not on the bellows? Could there be elements missing from the Helios? Is there any glass inside the bellows? (There shouldn't be.)

06-22-2017, 04:41 PM	#3
chuck_c Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Westerville, OH Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,588	You might find this helpful: The Pentax Bellows eBook - Articles and Tips \| PentaxForums.com

06-22-2017, 07:28 PM	#4
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735 Original Poster	Originally posted by photoptimist A bellows should not do that. You don't need a macro lens for close-focusing with a bellows although macro lenses typically are sharper than non-macros. Does your Helios focus normally when not on the bellows? Could there be elements missing from the Helios? Is there any glass inside the bellows? (There shouldn't be.) I tried three lenses that work fine without the bellows, and none would focus. The closest one to having anything in focus was a Mir 37mm f2.8. I don't have a wider M42 lens, so couldn't try anything else. There is no glass inside the bellows.. ---------- Post added 06-22-17 at 07:29 PM ---------- Originally posted by chuck_c You might find this helpful: The Pentax Bellows eBook - Articles and Tips \| PentaxForums.com Thanks! Will check it out

06-22-2017, 11:01 PM	#5
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	The 100mm f/4 Bellows lens can focus to infinity. With a 58mm lens and a bellows extension of 59mm magnification is ~1×. Distance from the camera sensor to subject in focus is 228mm (8.98 inches). Amount of extension is measured from the camera mount to the front of the lens mount on the bellows. At 118mm of extension the magnification is ~2.0× with a subject to sensor distance of 257mm (10.12 inches). So the lens is 29mm (1.14 in) closer to the subject. Make sure your lens is close enough to the subject in order to focus.

06-23-2017, 05:57 AM	#6
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	It almost sounds like you're trying lenses that are too short. I'm going to guess that the area of focus is so close that you may not have checked there. If a lens focuses fine without a bellows, there's nothing in the bellows that should mess that up.

06-23-2017, 07:11 AM	#7
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,129	Originally posted by TaoMaas It almost sounds like you're trying lenses that are too short. I'm going to guess that the area of focus is so close that you may not have checked there. If a lens focuses fine without a bellows, there's nothing in the bellows that should mess that up. That's what I'm thinking, too. Even at minimum extension (bellows fully compressed flat), the typical bellows adds at least a few centimeters of extension. The point of focus might be almost touching the filter ring.

06-23-2017, 07:47 AM	#8
Skodadriver Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 892	No way am I much of a macro photographer but have tried bellows and not been able to focus on something 15 metres away. Try your other lenses. Or put your K-5 in live view, hold the lens in front of the body. 3 to 5 cms away and put an object in front say 25cms away then move the lens backwards and forwards between the body and the object. You should get a point where the object is focussed (or close to it). Then move the object closer. That should give you an idea of bellows extension and object distance required. Or I have given you a lot of hassle without any reward. I hope it works.

06-27-2017, 05:01 AM	#11
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Cool! I'm glad you got it figured out. A bellows and a 135mm lens is a nice set-up for shooting flowers.