A couple of K3 questions

Robot camera · 07-12-2017, 09:09 AM

1) Is it possible to save an image taken with the digital preview function? If so how? I've tried every button with no luck.

2) Does focus tracking work at all in live view? It seems to track where the focused upon object is okay, but doesn't keep it in focus. I'm using the AF button to focus; releasing the AF button then pressing it again after the camera has tracked the object refocuses the lens, on whatever focus square the camera has tracked to. This proves it's not keeping in focus, and I'm hearing no focusing noises as the camera tracks. Is that all it does?

Obviously I've had a good look at the manual, with no luck for either question.

CarlJF · 07-12-2017, 09:55 AM

1) Press the shutter...

2) Liveview uses contrast detection autofocus, an AF method giving no indication of the direction of motion towards or away from the camera. This greatly limits the tracking capability in LV. The same issue is common to all hybrid systems without phase detection autofocus. For tracking with the K-3, you're much better to use the viewfinder, which rather uses phase detection AF.

photoptimist · 07-12-2017, 10:51 AM

1) On both the K-5 and K-1, the "AE-L" button saves the Digital Preview to the card. I assume the K-3 is the same. One issue might be that if you've programmed "AE-L" to do some something else (if that's even possible), then that might override the default functionality.

Robot camera · 07-12-2017, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by CarlJF

1) Press the shutter...

2) Liveview uses contrast detection autofocus, an AF method giving no indication of the direction of motion towards or away from the camera. This greatly limits the tracking capability in LV. The same issue is common to all hybrid systems without phase detection autofocus. For tracking with the K-3, you're much better to use the viewfinder, which rather uses phase detection AF.

1) That doesn't save the digital preview, it just takes another photo.

2) Are you saying it just doesn't work, at all?

---------- Post added 07-12-17 at 09:10 PM ----------

Originally posted by photoptimist

1) On both the K-5 and K-1, the "AE-L" button saves the Digital Preview to the card. I assume the K-3 is the same. One issue might be that if you've programmed "AE-L" to do some something else (if that's even possible), then that might override the default functionality.

That doesn't do it; there are a few buttons that can be used for other things, but the AE-L button isn't one of them.

CarlJF · 07-12-2017, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Robot camera

1) That doesn't save the digital preview, it just takes another photo.

Yes, but that photo shouldn't be different than your digital preview... Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to do, but why would want to save the digital preview instead of the real picture ?

Originally posted by Robot camera

2) Are you saying it just doesn't work, at all?

Not that it doesn't work at all. Just that you shouldn't expect tracking in LV to work great. LV is really only useful for static subjects, on which it works very well. In 2013, when the K-3 was launched, on sensor PDAF weren't available and poor CDAF tracking was a problem for all manufacturers...

Robot camera · 07-12-2017, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by CarlJF

Yes, but that photo shouldn't be different than your digital preview... Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to do, but why would want to save the digital preview instead of the real picture ?

Not that it doesn't work at all. Just that you shouldn't expect tracking in LV to work great. LV is really only useful for static subjects, on which it works very well. In 2013, when the K-3 was launched, on sensor PDAF weren't available and poor CDAF tracking was a problem for all manufacturers...

1) Sometimes I take a shot in digital preview and it's just what I want. With my K20D I just save it. Another photo would only be the same if neither the camera nor the subject had moved, or the light hadn't changed.

2) CDAF tracking doesn't work at all on my K3. The square stays green as it moves about, but no focusing is happening. I was wondering if either there's a fault or there's a setting somewhere I've missed.

pschlute · 07-12-2017, 03:14 PM

This doesnt answer your question but i never saw the point of digital preview at all. If you want to look at an image on the lcd which will represent how your actual picture will look (digital preview)..... err why not just take a picture ?

pakinjapan · 07-12-2017, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Robot camera

1) Is it possible to save an image taken with the digital preview function?

I have never try to save a digital preview. and usually I don't do digital preview, I just snap the photo and delete it later at home if I don't like it.
I check on my K3 and I can not find a way to save it either. May be it is a good idea to change the workflow a bit.

Originally posted by Robot camera

2) Does focus tracking work at all in live view? It seems to track where the focused upon object is okay, but doesn't keep it in focus.

It's working ok my mine. just keep the focus button haft press, it will continue to auto focus while tracking an object.

photoptimist · 07-12-2017, 04:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pschlute

This doesnt answer your question but i never saw the point of digital preview at all. If you want to look at an image on the lcd which will represent how your actual picture will look (digital preview)..... err why not just take a picture ?

I use it in two ways:

1) Digital preview offers a better workflow for test shots that are highly likely to be discarded. The preview image stays on the screen (unlike a normal saved shot), it doesn't face any delays in saving to the card or reloading from the card, it does not have the obscuring metadata or overlays that a reloaded image has (and I typically want), and doesn't require two extra button presses to delete and confirm delete.

2) I also use digital preview all the time to check for sensor dust by closing the aperture all the way down, pointing the camera at a blank wall or uniform sky, shooting a digital preview, zooming to 2.8 or 3X (depending on the body) an then using the arrow keys to take a quick spiral tour of the image.

In those two cases, at least, digital preview is faster, more effective, and does not consume card space.

Ragnarkov · 07-12-2017, 09:40 PM

1) Set your preview dial to Digital Preview.

2) Focus subject.

3) Use Digital Preview.

Now, this is under my settings. So its possibly its different if something in the settings get changed. But when I do this, it pops up with the digital preview image on the rear LCD display, and right across the bottom of the image is a little line of text saying hit AE-L to save. At this time I can cycle between a small preview image and RGB histograms, or a fullsize image with a basic histogram overlayed. If I hit AE-L, it then gives me an option to save the image on SD-1, SD-2, or cancel the operation.

Is this what your wanting?

Robot camera · 07-13-2017, 12:30 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Ragnarkov

1) Set your preview dial to Digital Preview.

2) Focus subject.

3) Use Digital Preview.

Now, this is under my settings. So its possibly its different if something in the settings get changed. But when I do this, it pops up with the digital preview image on the rear LCD display, and right across the bottom of the image is a little line of text saying hit AE-L to save. At this time I can cycle between a small preview image and RGB histograms, or a fullsize image with a basic histogram overlayed. If I hit AE-L, it then gives me an option to save the image on SD-1, SD-2, or cancel the operation.

Is this what your wanting?

Aha! under Recording Mode Menu 4, second one down, "Digital preview" I just needed to tick the "Save Preview Image" box. That's it! Thanks!

CarlJF · 07-13-2017, 08:27 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Robot camera

2) CDAF tracking doesn't work at all on my K3. The square stays green as it moves about, but no focusing is happening. I was wondering if either there's a fault or there's a setting somewhere I've missed.

On mine, the square will track the subject on the screen (X and Y axis) but will only try to refocus once the subject become static again. It will not try to focus on something moving in the z axis because it's pointless: the camera has no clue if it should focus nearer or farther and by how much. Classic CDAF works by a kind of "trial and error" algorithm where it has to got back and forth around the correct focus point, which is determined by comparing the contrast at this point with the others nearer and farther. Obviously, this can't work very well on a moving subject since the optimal focus point will change while the camera does it's "back and forth", or will not be at this point by the time the camera determined where it was...

When using the viewfinder, PDAF doesn't have to work out this iteration process. It knows if the subject is near or far, and by how much. Meaning that the AF can jump directly to the correct focus point without having much guess to do.

Here's an image from Imaging Resource clearly showing the differences. It's quite obvious that if the focus position is constantly moving, the contrast based system will have a hard time figuring where it should stop its wiggling... Or said otherwise, the CDAF system is excellent to determine precisely where the focus point was while PDAF is good at guessing where it will be...

Ragnarkov · 07-13-2017, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Robot camera

Aha! under Recording Mode Menu 4, second one down, "Digital preview" I just needed to tick the "Save Preview Image" box. That's it! Thanks!

AHA! And when I go into that menu item and remove the tick, the option is no longer available. I don't even know if that was the default setting or if I changed it when I first got the camera (was new, never used).

So we both learned something today. Huzzah!!

07-12-2017, 09:09 AM	#1
Robot camera Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire Posts: 194	A couple of K3 questions 1) Is it possible to save an image taken with the digital preview function? If so how? I've tried every button with no luck. 2) Does focus tracking work at all in live view? It seems to track where the focused upon object is okay, but doesn't keep it in focus. I'm using the AF button to focus; releasing the AF button then pressing it again after the camera has tracked the object refocuses the lens, on whatever focus square the camera has tracked to. This proves it's not keeping in focus, and I'm hearing no focusing noises as the camera tracks. Is that all it does? Obviously I've had a good look at the manual, with no luck for either question.

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07-12-2017, 09:55 AM	#2
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	1) Press the shutter... 2) Liveview uses contrast detection autofocus, an AF method giving no indication of the direction of motion towards or away from the camera. This greatly limits the tracking capability in LV. The same issue is common to all hybrid systems without phase detection autofocus. For tracking with the K-3, you're much better to use the viewfinder, which rather uses phase detection AF.

07-12-2017, 10:51 AM	#3
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	1) On both the K-5 and K-1, the "AE-L" button saves the Digital Preview to the card. I assume the K-3 is the same. One issue might be that if you've programmed "AE-L" to do some something else (if that's even possible), then that might override the default functionality.

07-12-2017, 01:08 PM	#4
Robot camera Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire Posts: 194 Original Poster	Originally posted by CarlJF 1) Press the shutter... 2) Liveview uses contrast detection autofocus, an AF method giving no indication of the direction of motion towards or away from the camera. This greatly limits the tracking capability in LV. The same issue is common to all hybrid systems without phase detection autofocus. For tracking with the K-3, you're much better to use the viewfinder, which rather uses phase detection AF. 1) That doesn't save the digital preview, it just takes another photo. 2) Are you saying it just doesn't work, at all? ---------- Post added 07-12-17 at 09:10 PM ---------- Originally posted by photoptimist 1) On both the K-5 and K-1, the "AE-L" button saves the Digital Preview to the card. I assume the K-3 is the same. One issue might be that if you've programmed "AE-L" to do some something else (if that's even possible), then that might override the default functionality. That doesn't do it; there are a few buttons that can be used for other things, but the AE-L button isn't one of them.

07-12-2017, 02:26 PM	#5
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Originally posted by Robot camera 1) That doesn't save the digital preview, it just takes another photo. Yes, but that photo shouldn't be different than your digital preview... Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to do, but why would want to save the digital preview instead of the real picture ? Originally posted by Robot camera 2) Are you saying it just doesn't work, at all? Not that it doesn't work at all. Just that you shouldn't expect tracking in LV to work great. LV is really only useful for static subjects, on which it works very well. In 2013, when the K-3 was launched, on sensor PDAF weren't available and poor CDAF tracking was a problem for all manufacturers...

07-12-2017, 02:51 PM	#6
Robot camera Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire Posts: 194 Original Poster	Originally posted by CarlJF Yes, but that photo shouldn't be different than your digital preview... Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to do, but why would want to save the digital preview instead of the real picture ? Not that it doesn't work at all. Just that you shouldn't expect tracking in LV to work great. LV is really only useful for static subjects, on which it works very well. In 2013, when the K-3 was launched, on sensor PDAF weren't available and poor CDAF tracking was a problem for all manufacturers... 1) Sometimes I take a shot in digital preview and it's just what I want. With my K20D I just save it. Another photo would only be the same if neither the camera nor the subject had moved, or the light hadn't changed. 2) CDAF tracking doesn't work at all on my K3. The square stays green as it moves about, but no focusing is happening. I was wondering if either there's a fault or there's a setting somewhere I've missed.

07-12-2017, 03:14 PM	#7
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,211	This doesnt answer your question but i never saw the point of digital preview at all. If you want to look at an image on the lcd which will represent how your actual picture will look (digital preview)..... err why not just take a picture ?

07-12-2017, 03:29 PM	#8
pakinjapan Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,041	Originally posted by Robot camera 1) Is it possible to save an image taken with the digital preview function? I have never try to save a digital preview. and usually I don't do digital preview, I just snap the photo and delete it later at home if I don't like it. I check on my K3 and I can not find a way to save it either. May be it is a good idea to change the workflow a bit. Originally posted by Robot camera 2) Does focus tracking work at all in live view? It seems to track where the focused upon object is okay, but doesn't keep it in focus. It's working ok my mine. just keep the focus button haft press, it will continue to auto focus while tracking an object.

07-12-2017, 04:01 PM - 1 Like	#9
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	Originally posted by pschlute This doesnt answer your question but i never saw the point of digital preview at all. If you want to look at an image on the lcd which will represent how your actual picture will look (digital preview)..... err why not just take a picture ? I use it in two ways: 1) Digital preview offers a better workflow for test shots that are highly likely to be discarded. The preview image stays on the screen (unlike a normal saved shot), it doesn't face any delays in saving to the card or reloading from the card, it does not have the obscuring metadata or overlays that a reloaded image has (and I typically want), and doesn't require two extra button presses to delete and confirm delete. 2) I also use digital preview all the time to check for sensor dust by closing the aperture all the way down, pointing the camera at a blank wall or uniform sky, shooting a digital preview, zooming to 2.8 or 3X (depending on the body) an then using the arrow keys to take a quick spiral tour of the image. In those two cases, at least, digital preview is faster, more effective, and does not consume card space.

07-12-2017, 09:40 PM	#10
Ragnarkov Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maple Ridge, BC Photos: Albums Posts: 45	1) Set your preview dial to Digital Preview. 2) Focus subject. 3) Use Digital Preview. Now, this is under my settings. So its possibly its different if something in the settings get changed. But when I do this, it pops up with the digital preview image on the rear LCD display, and right across the bottom of the image is a little line of text saying hit AE-L to save. At this time I can cycle between a small preview image and RGB histograms, or a fullsize image with a basic histogram overlayed. If I hit AE-L, it then gives me an option to save the image on SD-1, SD-2, or cancel the operation. Is this what your wanting?

07-13-2017, 12:30 AM - 1 Like	#11
Robot camera Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire Posts: 194 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ragnarkov 1) Set your preview dial to Digital Preview. 2) Focus subject. 3) Use Digital Preview. Now, this is under my settings. So its possibly its different if something in the settings get changed. But when I do this, it pops up with the digital preview image on the rear LCD display, and right across the bottom of the image is a little line of text saying hit AE-L to save. At this time I can cycle between a small preview image and RGB histograms, or a fullsize image with a basic histogram overlayed. If I hit AE-L, it then gives me an option to save the image on SD-1, SD-2, or cancel the operation. Is this what your wanting? Aha! under Recording Mode Menu 4, second one down, "Digital preview" I just needed to tick the "Save Preview Image" box. That's it! Thanks!

07-13-2017, 08:27 AM - 1 Like	#12
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Originally posted by Robot camera 2) CDAF tracking doesn't work at all on my K3. The square stays green as it moves about, but no focusing is happening. I was wondering if either there's a fault or there's a setting somewhere I've missed. On mine, the square will track the subject on the screen (X and Y axis) but will only try to refocus once the subject become static again. It will not try to focus on something moving in the z axis because it's pointless: the camera has no clue if it should focus nearer or farther and by how much. Classic CDAF works by a kind of "trial and error" algorithm where it has to got back and forth around the correct focus point, which is determined by comparing the contrast at this point with the others nearer and farther. Obviously, this can't work very well on a moving subject since the optimal focus point will change while the camera does it's "back and forth", or will not be at this point by the time the camera determined where it was... When using the viewfinder, PDAF doesn't have to work out this iteration process. It knows if the subject is near or far, and by how much. Meaning that the AF can jump directly to the correct focus point without having much guess to do. Here's an image from Imaging Resource clearly showing the differences. It's quite obvious that if the focus position is constantly moving, the contrast based system will have a hard time figuring where it should stop its wiggling... Or said otherwise, the CDAF system is excellent to determine precisely where the focus point was while PDAF is good at guessing where it will be...

07-13-2017, 10:16 AM	#13
Ragnarkov Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Maple Ridge, BC Photos: Albums Posts: 45	Originally posted by Robot camera Aha! under Recording Mode Menu 4, second one down, "Digital preview" I just needed to tick the "Save Preview Image" box. That's it! Thanks! AHA! And when I go into that menu item and remove the tick, the option is no longer available. I don't even know if that was the default setting or if I changed it when I first got the camera (was new, never used). So we both learned something today. Huzzah!!