[SpecialK]

I never use nor recommend spot-metering. If you know how to use it you don't need it :-) I also do not often sacrifice the rest of the image for the clouds unless the clouds are the really most-awesome and not just there.

Just review your shots for awhile and check the histogram. Eventually you will be able to judge the exposure off the LCD - and it never hurts to review image settings. It's easy enough to forget to adjust the ISO from indoors to outside, for example.

Don't be afraid to use the exposure compensation button.

[SpecialK]

One other thing to note is that the setting of the brightness on the OP's monitor (and indeed all of our monitors) will affect how the picture appears. When the under/over exposure is marginal, this could be significant.

After using web page tools to check calibration, I go into a couple forums to make sure those images look right :-)

[lushdimple11]

It's still underexposed to me, Lushdimple, this was obviously a bright day during a fantastic holiday but the picture doesn't reflect that, IMHO.

Your final pic after postprocessing should have genuine white bits and genuine black bits, not shades of grey.

But if you PP your pics to your tastes rather than editorial standards, that's fine. No one's paying you for these, they document a happy time in your life.

Thank you! That pic was my minimum expectation. I wish it could have been a tad brighter originally. I'm aware I could pump it up a bit more using PP. It's just me feeling uncomfortable when I have to do a lot of PP, as I know the pictures could have been rendered better at the moment of capture. My preference would be taking good pics at the beginning, then tweak them just a little bit using PP. The colour rendition of this pic is the most ideal in my batch, IMHO. Though, I know it came out as a lucky shot.

---------- Post added 08-23-17 at 03:42 AM ----------

One other thing to note is that the setting of the brightness on the OP's monitor (and indeed all of our monitors) will affect how the picture appears. When the under/over exposure is marginal, this could be significant.

This is a very good point. In fact, I just noticed this when I upgraded my laptop and migrated all the photo archives to it. What looked nice on my old laptop didn't look the same in the new one.

[pschlute]

My preference would be taking good pics at the beginning, then tweak them just a little bit using PP

In very high contrast scenes that is just not possible.

[lushdimple11]

What he said ^ ^ ^

Technically, the photos are well-exposed. Specular white highlights are properly placed as are true white elements (hull of ship in #2). Matrix metering would have pushed the boundary a little further and a RAW capture would have been totally salvageable. When I am at the beach or in the mountains where sunlit snow is part of the mix, my fall-back is to go old school and expose for the actual light level (so-called incident light) rather than what is reflected back from the subject. This may be done one of two ways, one cheap and the other not-so-cheap...

• Using a hand-held meter capable of incident readings ($$) --or--
• Metering off an 18% gray card oriented to the light source rather than the scene itself ($). A proper reading from the gray card will have a balanced and centered histogram.

One uses M-mode for both and the settings from either will work fine until either the light or the subject changes. Yes, all of the beach photos could have been done with the same settings. I carry both a meter and the card in my bag.


Steve

Ah ha, very good tip for me to try. I go to the mountain a lot, too. Many thanks. Just to confirm the proper method to meter off the gray card, is that pointing the camera at it to meter, locking the exposure then starting to shoot with that?

[lushdimple11]

After using web page tools to check calibration, I go into a couple forums to make sure those images look right :-)

Can you please share the webpage tools and the forums that you use to check calibration? Many thanks.

[stevebrot]

Ah ha, very good tip for me to try. I go to the mountain a lot, too. Many thanks. Just to confirm the proper method to meter off the gray card, is that pointing the camera at it to meter, locking the exposure then starting to shoot with that?

Yes, that works. You can also use M mode + green button to meter off the card if you are doing multiple shots in the same light.


Steve

[SpecialK]

Can you please share the webpage tools and the forums that you use to check calibration? Many thanks.

Here's a couple. (#1 is gone).

6 Free Online Tools To Help Calibrate Your Monitor

Any forum with a lot of photos will work - macro, lens club, weekly contest, etc. If they are light or dark or too contrasty, it's probably you :-)

[lushdimple11]

Spot metering requires knowledge of where you want to take meter from and the process generally is done in M-mode or using AE Lock. I have participated in multiple troubleshooting/"my camera is broken" threads in the last few months that were due directly to inappropriate spot metering. As noted above, the meter is hoping to center the histogram and will meter to 18% gray. Using your photo #1 as an example...

• Point the meter spot at the sand and you will get a results similar to what you have
• Meter off the dark hill at middle left and the breaking wavelets and much of the clouds will probably be totally blown out white
• Meter off the center of frame and a few degrees up or down may result in mild under or over exposure, depending on where the spot lands

The process of sampling reflected light from an element in the frame as the basis for exposure allows one to "place exposure" for that element with the risk that other things may not look that great. In short, spot metering is an advanced technique, but one that can be very useful for some subjects. I won't say much more than to point out that so far in 2017, I have taken part in at least 10 troubleshooting threads with titles such as "Inconsistent exposure with Kxxx". Almost as many have involved having the camera set with exposure to follow the AF point (only available for multi-segment metering on your K-r). This is seldom a good idea, even though it seems like a no-brainer. The only time it might make sense is if the photographer knows what is going to be at the focus point and knows how they want it exposed.


Steve

Hi Steve

Thank you for your detailed analyses. I'm not sure why I didn't see this reply of yours yesterday. I agree with you that for landscape and lighting conditions as such, spot metering is riskier to use. I myself learned it the hard way when many pics I took during my trip in Norway came out darker than these beach pics. That was when, thanks to veteran Pentaxians here, I learned that exposure was not only just about the triangle (aperture, shutter speed & ISO), but I should've taken into consideration the metering modes. And as you rightly pointed out, I was quickly (& foolishly) jumping to the conclusion that my camera was out of order. I still find myself super silly whenever I recall the incident back then. Now, given you mentioned the AF and AE linkage, that's something I want to learn as well. What are the effects when AF links and not links to AE in different metering modes and in the outcome pics? Grateful if you could provide some further guidance. Thank you very much!

[jimmaunder]

another vote that your pictures actually came out pretty well. If you look at the clouds and white caps on the water in the first, you still have detail versus blown out highlights. I think that is preferable and as already mentioned, you can tweak the other areas in post processing. Much easier and better results to bring something up than deal with something blown out with no detail left. You've got detail and colors look good. You could have done far worse.

I think these fail to show the strength of the light in the tropics - the 1st 2 look quite a bit underexposed to me. The sky should be nearly white - or very pale blue at least.

(I was wrong here - thinking of inland Australia. Sky comes strong blue in the humid tropics)

The other thing is that your eye adapts to wherever it is looking at, so you won't notice the big differences in light from one part of the scene to another. No camera will capture what you see! To get close to that would need a bit of dodge and burn in the darkroom - selective expose compensation in different areas of the image.

[Des]

Now, given you mentioned the AF and AE linkage, that's something I want to learn as well. What are the effects when AF links and not links to AE in different metering modes and in the outcome pics? Grateful if you could provide some further guidance.

More than a year later, here's an answer!

If the points are not linked, the camera will meter as follows:
- Spot metering: from a small area in the centre of the frame (about 5% I believe)
- Centre-weighted: What it says. Metering is weighted to the centre of the frame.
- Matrix or multi-segment: Metering is based on multiple zones from across the whole frame. (Higher-end cameras have more sophisticated metering using many more zones.)
If the AF and AE points are not linked, the AE metering takes no notice of whether the area metered is in focus or not.

As I understand it, if you link AE and AF points, it only works in matrix or multi-segment mode (at least in the K-3, but probably all the Pentax DSLRs): Link AE and AF point - PentaxForums.com That is, in metering across the whole frame it gives more weight to areas in focus.

BTW, similar to other posters, I'd be happy with the photos you've shown, as a starting point for RAW processing. I tend to deliberately underexpose my images in bright conditions to avoid blown out highlights. The rest is easily fixed.

I'd say it's worth familiarizing yourself with one RAW converter. Then save settings you like for particular situations (e.g. backlit portraits, beach, flowers) as presets. They give you a starting point and make editing a lot quicker. Lightroom is the most popular but there are plenty of other commercial programs (I use DxO PhotoLab, which I really like) and free ones like RawTherapee or Darktable.

If you want to use jpg only, try exposure bracketing and keep the image with the exposure you like best.

[mikesbike]

I owned a K-r for a number of years. It does not tend to under-expose like the K-20D and other Pentax models. The OP's samples EXIF indicate center-weighted metering was used. This is an older technology, still appropriate in some circumstances, but generally was superseded by matrix metering. Why the camera's default setting was changed to center-weighted is a mystery. Of course, spot metering should only be used if knowing how and when to use it.

But even Matrix metering is not perfect, as it too can be fooled by extreme lighting. This is one reason for amateur-oriented cameras having SCENE modes, like the K-r. Among them will be a SCENE mode for beach scenes having a lot of sand and water. That SCENE mode will automatically increase exposure to compensate. What happens in such a circumstance is the camera's meter is "seeing" or sensing a lot of brightness coming off the white sand and the sparkling water, so it will reduce exposure for a "correct" exposure, except it is not really correct. The same holds true for snowy scenes. Pro-oriented cameras for advanced photographers do not have SCENE modes, because it is assumed an experienced photographer knows how camera meters "see' things and will know to compensate in setting the exposure, over-riding the settings by any of the AE modes. The exposure compensation button is very handy for this purpose. Usually 1 or 1-1/2 stop increase will do the trick.

A well-lit subject against a very dark background will bring about the opposite problem, necessitating a reduction in exposure to compensate for the meter's over-reaction to so much dark area in the frame.

[Des]

FWIW, I've attached a quick and dirty edit of the image in post #26. I've gone for a 5:2 crop (plain sea and sky top and bottom didn't add anything IMO), straightened the water line, warmed the image a little, left the overall exposure but raised the mid tones a little and the shadows a lot, used a graduated filter effect on the sky and used the clarity slider significantly. It looks a bit unnatural, but it's just indicative because we're going off a small jpg only. About 2 mins editing.

[lushdimple11]

More than a year later, here's an answer!

If the points are not linked, the camera will meter as follows:
- Spot metering: from a small area in the centre of the frame (about 5% I believe)
- Centre-weighted: What it says. Metering is weighted to the centre of the frame.
- Matrix or multi-segment: Metering is based on multiple zones from across the whole frame. (Higher-end cameras have more sophisticated metering using many more zones.)
If the AF and AE points are not linked, the AE metering takes no notice of whether the area metered is in focus or not.

As I understand it, if you link AE and AF points, it only works in matrix or multi-segment mode (at least in the K-3, but probably all the Pentax DSLRs): Link AE and AF point - PentaxForums.com That is, in metering across the whole frame it gives more weight to areas in focus.

BTW, similar to other posters, I'd be happy with the photos you've shown, as a starting point for RAW processing. I tend to deliberately underexpose my images in bright conditions to avoid blown out highlights. The rest is easily fixed.

I'd say it's worth familiarizing yourself with one RAW converter. Then save settings you like for particular situations (e.g. backlit portraits, beach, flowers) as presets. They give you a starting point and make editing a lot quicker. Lightroom is the most popular but there are plenty of other commercial programs (I use DxO PhotoLab, which I really like) and free ones like RawTherapee or Darktable.

If you want to use jpg only, try exposure bracketing and keep the image with the exposure you like best.

Thank you so much. It's very informative.