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12-16-2017, 12:13 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Even my teenage daughters scream out in agony as they power up their laptops to do school work etc., and they are stuck waiting on updates
You don't need to. You can set Windows 10 to do updates outside your normal active hours.

QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
And while I'm at it, 10 is just plain ugly. It amazes me that you can pick any color you want going even back to the DOS and Win 3 days for backgrounds, borders etc., but not in 10.
Sure you can. Just create your own custom colour.

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12-16-2017, 12:30 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
You don't need to. You can set Windows 10 to do updates outside your normal active hours.
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Sure you can. Just create your own custom colour.
Hi,

first, no interest in beating this to death back and forth, and perhaps I worded things in too absolute a manner. I/my kids have messed around with off hour updates, setting wireless for metered connections etc., but at some point, the machine has not been left on to whatever appointed hour, it gets plugged into a network cable without thinking of the backlog, whatever, but somehow someway, we all seem to get updates pushed on us at really inconvenient times, and some of those updates can just go on and on. And if you approach it from the perspective of a 16 year old bopping through life, leaving the laptop on long enough often enough to get it in the off hours can be off the proverbial radar.

Regarding the color stuff, 10 has gotten better, and now the custom color option actually resembles the old color wheel going way back, but it was really lousy in the first releases. However, I still don't see the degree of control we've had before as seen below, where it's really easy to adjust different combinations on a granular level. If it's all there in 10, I'd be more than happy to get straightened out, but I will up front say it shouldn't be so hard if it's hidden someplace else or takes a "God mode" ( for those not familiar: windows god mode at DuckDuckGo )

All in all, my complaint is just that in typical fashion, the user is loosing control, and I just find it annoying. I'm used to being the super user, not the worker bee with no privileges on the other end. This is where stuff like the new update routines and changes to the interface are just annoying to me. I also miss the Aero desktop to some degree. Again, I know there's some support for transparency, but I feel like the GUI is really getting homogenized to look like a tablet device with a touch screen (which I can't stand), and I get that is perhaps the trend MS wants to take it, streamline the codebase, unify the experience and so forth, so then I'm happy I can grab a product like Stardock's Object desktop to at least get the GUI back to where i like it.

Something I'm really tired of is data collection, and yes, it's everywhere, I know. If you've got a way to stop the data collection in 10 itself, I'd love to know. I'd like to turn it off completely, beyond the "basic" setting for telemetry. Again, I'm crusty. I don't want my "user experience customized" based on my behavior. I try to avoid the Google bubble etc. You'll notice the link above is duckduckgo I get that some really like 10, and then there are others like myself who just haven't found it appetizing. I see some small niceties here in there, but all in all, nothing runs better for me than my 7 Pro setup. And for that matter, I'm really on the verge of throwing together another boot configuration to load Linux and start playing with the photo tools available there. I just haven't figured out which distro I want to play with. I've got a ton of CentOS servers at work, but not sure if I might want a different flavor for photo oriented work. Any recommendations?
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12-16-2017, 12:49 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
.......................................

Regarding the color stuff, 10 has gotten better, and now the custom color option actually resembles the old color wheel going way back, but it was really lousy in the first releases. However, I still don't see the degree of control we've had before as seen below, where it's really easy to adjust different combinations on a granular level. If it's all there in 10, I'd be more than happy to get straightened out, but I will up front say it shouldn't be so hard if it's hidden someplace else or takes a "God mode" ( for those not familiar: windows god mode at DuckDuckGo )
Ooooh YES, MS, please bring back the control panel section illustrated above. All you want in one place. I want to set my fonts to bold..... where's the setting?

Change for change's(and money's) sake.

Colin
12-16-2017, 01:58 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
All in all, my complaint is just that in typical fashion, the [Windows] user is losing control, and I just find it annoying. .... This is where stuff like the new update routines and changes to the interface are just annoying to me. .... I feel like the GUI is really getting homogenized to look like a tablet device with a touch screen ... and I get that is perhaps the trend MS wants to take it,...

If you've got a way to stop the data collection in 10 itself, I'd love to know...... I'm really on the verge of throwing together another boot configuration to load Linux and start playing with the photo tools available there. I just haven't figured out which distro I want to play with. I've got a ton of CentOS servers at work, but not sure if I might want a different flavor for photo oriented work. Any recommendations?
The way to stop Windows 10 from sending data home is to pull out the internet connection

I don't use Windows 10 but my Android tablet is just as infuriating as what I've heard about it; Eg I had a perfectly satisfactory Android calender app until one day it "updated" itself to something distinctly inferior (eg lost the ability to "Go To" any date). As for the trend MS wants, it is clearly towards a rental model for their software. That way they get a steady income without needing to do much more development (only security updates and styling changes). MS say there will be no new versions of Windows after Win10, only updates, but the pundits predict there will come a point when you will be left behind unless you take a rental subscription.

I was going to suggest that you sound like a candidate for Linux, but you said it yourself. CentOS is really a corporate-oriented system, particularly for file servers. For home use, Mint is the going recommendation for someone starting with Linux. You can install any Linux photo software* on any distro, but the Mint distro will have more general software for home use already present. I use the Devuan distro, which is a more technical version of Debian, which is itself not a beginner's distro. Mint is ultimately based on Debian too, but with a friendlier face.

Sorry I don't myself yet know enough about photo software for Linux to recommend any, other than Gimp for general cropping, colour balance and re-sizing. There have been other discussions of that subject on here, if you search.

* Adobe Photoshop is not available for Linux, whci is often given as a reason for sticking to Windows or Mac.

12-16-2017, 02:00 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Hi,

first, no interest in beating this to death back and forth, and perhaps I worded things in too absolute a manner. I/my kids have messed around with off hour updates, setting wireless for metered connections etc., but at some point, the machine has not been left on to whatever appointed hour, it gets plugged into a network cable without thinking of the backlog, whatever, but somehow someway, we all seem to get updates pushed on us at really inconvenient times, and some of those updates can just go on and on. And if you approach it from the perspective of a 16 year old bopping through life, leaving the laptop on long enough often enough to get it in the off hours can be off the proverbial radar.

Regarding the color stuff, 10 has gotten better, and now the custom color option actually resembles the old color wheel going way back, but it was really lousy in the first releases. However, I still don't see the degree of control we've had before as seen below, where it's really easy to adjust different combinations on a granular level. If it's all there in 10, I'd be more than happy to get straightened out, but I will up front say it shouldn't be so hard if it's hidden someplace else or takes a "God mode" ( for those not familiar: windows god mode at DuckDuckGo )

All in all, my complaint is just that in typical fashion, the user is loosing control, and I just find it annoying. I'm used to being the super user, not the worker bee with no privileges on the other end. This is where stuff like the new update routines and changes to the interface are just annoying to me. I also miss the Aero desktop to some degree. Again, I know there's some support for transparency, but I feel like the GUI is really getting homogenized to look like a tablet device with a touch screen (which I can't stand), and I get that is perhaps the trend MS wants to take it, streamline the codebase, unify the experience and so forth, so then I'm happy I can grab a product like Stardock's Object desktop to at least get the GUI back to where i like it.

Something I'm really tired of is data collection, and yes, it's everywhere, I know. If you've got a way to stop the data collection in 10 itself, I'd love to know. I'd like to turn it off completely, beyond the "basic" setting for telemetry. Again, I'm crusty. I don't want my "user experience customized" based on my behavior. I try to avoid the Google bubble etc. You'll notice the link above is duckduckgo I get that some really like 10, and then there are others like myself who just haven't found it appetizing. I see some small niceties here in there, but all in all, nothing runs better for me than my 7 Pro setup. And for that matter, I'm really on the verge of throwing together another boot configuration to load Linux and start playing with the photo tools available there. I just haven't figured out which distro I want to play with. I've got a ton of CentOS servers at work, but not sure if I might want a different flavor for photo oriented work. Any recommendations?
WIndows 10 does offer less customisation with the like of display fonts and the like. It is possible to change the fonts by doing a registry hack, but that's not for everyone. Sure, there are things that some people don't like. And I have no interest in a big back and forth.
But.
I responded to your claim of not being able to do two particular things with Windows 10. Both which are possible. I felt it necessary to assist you with those two things. I can't help you with your choice regarding a different operating system.
Here's the screenshot of the setting page where you can control deferring updates to a date which suits you.

As for data collection: You can customise the "Feedback and Diagnostics" information and you can also change "Privacy Settings". Both of those will give you some control about what data Microsoft collects from your PC. Likewise, you do not need to have your user experience customised based upon your behaviour. See attached screenshot.
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12-16-2017, 04:44 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
See attached screenshot
Hi,

yes, all good - appreciate your feedback. I have been through those areas and locked them down as much as possible, and also push back updates as much as I can too. Yes, it is sometimes necessary to delve into the registry to make Windows do what we want. I'm guessing your in IT pro, like myself.

Thanks again

-David

---------- Post added 12-16-17 at 07:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I was going to suggest that you sound like a candidate for Linux, but you said it yourself. CentOS is really a corporate-oriented system, particularly for file servers. For home use, Mint is the going recommendation for someone starting with Linux.
Yep, I've been running Linux servers for over 20 years now. Cut my teeth messing with Slackware. And you're right on with CentOS being corporate oriented, which is why it's on my servers now. But I too was thinking Mint for home would make more sense for reasons like you state. It's been a few years since I loaded up Mint, but even let's say 5 years back, I found it very nice. I've really been working with what I think of as the Redhat flavor versus the Debian/BSD variants, and that's kept me away from Ubuntu combined with the Unity desktop, which I wasn't too thrilled with, but now they've headed back to GNOME, so perhaps I should look at that as well as Mint. Regarding software, We've got Darktable and RAW Therapee. I also have Corel Aftershot Pro 3, which came with Linux packages for RPM and Debian, so there's plenty to get me started on the RAW side, and yep, I think GIMP is the Linux "Photoshop" to check out.

Last edited by clickclick; 12-16-2017 at 05:08 PM.
12-16-2017, 06:51 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Hi,

yes, all good - appreciate your feedback. I have been through those areas and locked them down as much as possible, and also push back updates as much as I can too. Yes, it is sometimes necessary to delve into the registry to make Windows do what we want. I'm guessing your in IT pro, like myself.

Thanks again

-David
Hi David

I'm not in IP but I have a small business and, except for occasional help from an external IP guru, I get by!
The software I use for my work was until very recently (the last 3 years) only compatible with the Windows operating system. So, since Win95 I've been stuck with Windows.

If you're in IT, then I don't have to tell you there's also this settings screen:

Kind regards,
Mark

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12-16-2017, 08:12 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
If you're in IT, then I don't have to tell you there's also this settings screen:
yes indeed! That's the screen I was thinking of specifically when I was grumping about "Basic" telemetry feedback.

IT was accidental for me - business admin. major, and first job hired for marketing by a startup that within the first week realized I had a knack for computers, and they needed that support more than marketing, and well, 30 some years later I can't complain - it feeds my LBA!
12-17-2017, 03:39 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
yes indeed! That's the screen I was thinking of specifically when I was grumping about "Basic" telemetry feedback.

IT was accidental for me - business admin. major, and first job hired for marketing by a startup that within the first week realized I had a knack for computers, and they needed that support more than marketing, and well, 30 some years later I can't complain - it feeds my LBA!
I'd love to know what "basic" is. With luck it's less than the government collects.
12-17-2017, 03:43 AM - 1 Like   #25
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Microsoft have stuck a harvesting operation on an external website I guess in the hope nobody will easily find it when browsing Win 10's privacy menus.

Go here: Microsoft account | Privacy

The site is cleverly designed and comes across as if it advises you how to turn harvesting off.
In the third box down it shows you how to opt out for Win 10, Win 8.1 and Windows mobile devices.
But if you don't push the slider button in the second box to "off" it will be all in vain. I guess under U.S. laws
MS is obliged to provide an opt out option. Because of this this site has had more changes than traffic lights
on the way to work. When I first visited this site some 8 months ago (under a totally different link then) it has
been changed with new settings and look at least a dozen times and every time it is always reset to on.
(With the law abiding off option turned to on)

And of course you are lucky if you can find this site again under the same link.

We are all running a losing battle.
12-17-2017, 07:09 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
With luck it's less than the government collects.
QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
We are all running a losing battle.
Yes indeed! And then there were the Google barges in San Francisco a few years back. I read now they were supposed to be show rooms for select people and products and the project was scrapped, but the skeptical side of me still wonders whether they were really data centers that could be floated into international waters and outside of anyone's jurisdiction for data analysis... Seems like a really odd/ugly approach to selling product, and the secrecy around them was pretty high. Right up there with, "I'm, from the Government, and I'm here to help you".....
12-17-2017, 07:14 PM   #27
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Clickclick - Why are you going through updates each time you turn on the machine? On my four (4) Windows 10 Pro boxes I only have updates run once a week or so. Only the feature releases take a lot of bandwidth/time. Looking at my current box I have had updates on 12/16 (OS), 12/12 (Word, Excel 2010, OS), 12/6 (OS), 12/3 (OS) etc. And as for replacing the Command Prompt (cmd.exe) with Powershell - that is configurable => Settings > Personalization > Taskbar 6 buttons down. Easy shmeesy.
The Command Prompt and Control panel are available in the Windows System folder. Windows button => Apps list (if you have configured it that way, my systems all start out in desktop mode) Click any Letter - select W open Windows System -- BAM there they are. Simple. Right click on the icon, choose pin to start - or right click and go into the More selection and "pin to taskbar". Voila no more having to go to the Windows button to find those things you need to know. Of course Windows key +R type in cmd or control works too. As does the "God" mode hack, but it is only visible in Explorer er File Exploiter.

You people make this really too hard. And as a bonus, you can remove "People" from the taskbar too: Settings > Personalization > Taskbar > scroll down to the bottom.
And Yes, MS does annoy me rebuilding my desktop each time a feature release is put out. By the way, I have had 3 Blue Screens with Windows 10 since I installed it - all due to non-Microsoft software/power failures (caused memory stick to fail). The Blue screens were on my primary box, the other ones have not had a Blue Screen at all with Windows 10.

Last edited by PDL; 12-18-2017 at 05:04 PM. Reason: masked profanity removed.
12-18-2017, 07:14 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
Clickclick - Why are you going through updates each time you turn on the machine?
Never said I was getting updates every time I turn on the machine, just that at some point they come, and not always when you want them, despite scheduling, deferring etc. And I think you miss my point on Powershell, - just an example of typical MS moving stuff around in ways that don't appear to have any particular reason to them, again, never said there wasn't some way to change this or customize it, and honestly, I don't feel this is worth putting any more effort or thought into. The OP's update icon went back to normal, and I believe his situation is resolved. Enough said.
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