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2 Days Ago   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
My goal is to get everything right in the camera when I shoot, rather than do a lot of processing.
When I see statements like this I feel the poster does not really understand a digital workflow. Yes, absolutely you should do everything to 'get it right' in the camera, that is just fundamental. But unlike film you now have the ability to go beyond 'getting it right' by going further with computer developing if you want to.

Sorry, just a personal rant but the 'get it right in the camera' thing drives me nuts. Do people think I go out and try to get it WRONG in the camera just so I can play on the computer? Remember the camera itself is developing the RAW image according to the settings on your camera. By shooting RAW you merely substitute those settings for ones you prefer. And that does not mean a lot of work. My Lightroom import applies my settings to the RAW on import with no work from me. The images are at least better than the camera jpgs and to my taste not the cameras. If I see a really great image that justifies extra computer I can now do that. But for most I have no extra work.

The image here could not be taken right 'in camera' without a graduated filter and even then likely would not be great. If the sky is blown out because the dynamic range is too great some of that can be recovered from the RAW. But if it is washed because it is a cloudy, overcast, dreary day not much can be done. Perhaps some detail in the clouds but then there might not be any detail in the overcast anyway.

Anyway, YES get it right in the camera. Then setup Lightroom for auto develop on import and only PP those images that will benefit from it.


Last edited by jatrax; 1 Day Ago at 08:09 AM.
2 Days Ago   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Terry, the only way to really deal with these very high contrast scenes is to use a Neutral Density Graduated filter. That way you get correctly exposed sky and subject. I use the Lee 150 system for the Pentax 15-30. It is not cheap but will do the job. The problem with trying to deal with it in post is that once highlights are blown, they are blown and cannot be rescued. You are correct to try and get it right in camera.

You wont be able to use a screw-in filter on the lens so have a look at the Lee system.
Wow, I just looked at the Lee system and they really are expensive. Have never used ND filters, myself, but do understand the need for them. I really wanted the new 24-70 again, before making that investment. I guess I'm stuck with avoiding overexposure and seeing what kind of results I can get in post. As far as my image goes, It was getting ready to rain, I was in hurry, then my battery ran out after 3 shots. I could have composed it better, or even found a more appropriate subject.
Thank you for your reply.

---------- Post added 04-16-18 at 01:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxfall Quote
Images have to be Inspected at 100% resolution to see the problem. Here are examples from decentered DFA* 70-200. I used it for more than 6 months thinking it is fine.


Looks good



Here is the problem
Great example. Thank you very much.
2 Days Ago   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Sorry, just a personal rant but the 'get it right in the camera' thing drives me nuts. Do people think I go out and try to get WRONG in the camera just so I can play on the computer? Remember the camera itself is developing the RAW image according to the settings on your camera. By shooting RAW you merely substitute those settings for ones you prefer.
+1

I could never understand people posting shots 'straight out of camera', which could visibly benefit from a bit of tweaking, and somehow being proud of it as if post-processing somehow degraded their shots. But we digress.

As for the OP - a quick and easy way to check for decentering is this :
How to Check Your Lens for Decentering - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com
2 Days Ago   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
When I see statements like this I feel the poster does not really understand a digital workflow. Yes, absolutely you should do everything to 'get it right' in the camera, that is just fundamental. But unlike film you now have the ability to go beyond 'getting it right' by going further with computer developing if you want to.

Sorry, just a personal rant but the 'get it right in the camera' thing drives me nuts. Do people think I go out and try to get WRONG in the camera just so I can play on the computer? Remember the camera itself is developing the RAW image according to the settings on your camera. By shooting RAW you merely substitute those settings for ones you prefer. And that does not mean a lot of work. My Lightroom import applies my settings to the RAW on import with no work from me. The images are at least better than the camera jpgs and to my taste not the cameras. If I see a really great image that justifies extra computer I can now do that. But for most I have no extra work.

The image here could not be taken right 'in camera' without a graduated filter and even then likely would not be great. If the sky is blown out because the dynamic range is too great some of that can be recovered from the RAW. But if it is washed because it is a cloudy, overcast, dreary day not much can be done. Perhaps some detail in the clouds but then there might not be any detail in the overcast anyway.

Anyway, YES get it right in the camera. Then setup Lightroom for auto develop on import and only PP those images that will benefit from it.
Thank you very much for the suggestion on how to setup Lightroom. That sounds great. I didn't even know you could do that. If I have to take a little grief to learn something, I'm more than willing.
Terry

---------- Post added 04-16-18 at 02:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kh1234567890 Quote
+1

I could never understand people posting shots 'straight out of camera', which could visibly benefit from a bit of tweaking, and somehow being proud of it as if post-processing somehow degraded their shots. But we digress.

As for the OP - a quick and easy way to check for decentering is this :
How to Check Your Lens for Decentering - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com
Good gosh guys! I'm under the beginner section. I tried to process it, and was just trying to get something good enough to determine if I had a good copy of the lens. I adjusted exposure and sharpened it. I never said that I was proud of it, because I'm not. I was able to study the file I have hear on my computer, and verified that there is not even a sign of decentering. Nice and sharp, too. Thanks for the link.


Last edited by TerryL; 2 Days Ago at 03:54 PM. Reason: spelling
2 Days Ago   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
I tried to process it, and was just trying to get something good enough to determine
I think kh1234567890 was referring to generic 'other' people who insist that straight out of camera is in some way better or more honest. Or something. I do not believe he was referring to your shot which is obviously just a test shot for the purpose.
QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Thank you very much for the suggestion on how to setup Lightroom.
The real power of Lightroom is in the presets and applying them automatically.
For example on import Lightroom:
1) Renames all files to my preferred naming convention (yyyy.mm.dd@hh.mm.ss) so that I have a consistent file name convention
2) Copies the files to my server into a directory structure (yyyy/yyy-mm-dd) it builds automatically so each day's shoot is in a separate folder
3) Makes a second copy to an external hard drive on my local machine for archival purposes
4) Applies a metadata preset with my copyright and other legal information
5) Applies any keywords that I might want added to the files
6) Applies a develop preset that is camera specific, so files from the K-1 get a different preset than those from the K-3II or from the Sony
7) Makes full size previews so I can review without having to wait once everything is done processing

I list this not to say you should do all of those things but to show the power of Lightroom to automate things.

To get a develop preset running:
1) Take some good pictures using RAW+ and import both the RAW and the jpg. The jpg is to give you a reference to what the camera is doing internally with it's develop instructions. But remember there are a number of in-camera jpg presets and then you can tweak all of the settings manually.
2) Using the develop tools work up the RAW to suite your tastes. Use the jpg as a reference (good or bad). Leave things a little weak on most settings, this is a generic import preset and you want it to work for the majority of your images. If you go too strong it might be OK for that image but not for many others. You can always tweak particular images later. This is just to get 95% of the way for average good images.
3) When done, save the preset over on the left. I call mine by Camera Name so "K-1 Import" or "K-3II Import"
4) Right click and select "apply on import" Now that preset will have a little plus sign behind it indicating it is the default import develop preset
5) Now over on the import screen (click import) setup your "Import Preset" for each camera. Not that this is not the same as the "Develop Preset" you built above. But the develop preset will be included in the Import Preset
6) On the right setup all the panels the way you want them. Metadata preset, develop preset, renaming, save location, directory structure
7) On the bottom there is a little box for the import preset. Open that and save your settings as an Import Preset. Mine is just the camera name. "K-1", "K-3II"
8) All done. Try some sample images to make sure it all works right

Lots of tedious setup, but only done once. The alternative is doing all of those steps manually on each import. Not fun. The tricky things is that presets cascade. So you need to build your metadata preset and your develop preset first then include those inside the Import Preset.
2 Days Ago   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think kh1234567890 was referring to generic 'other' people who insist that straight out of camera is in some way better or more honest. Or something. I do not believe he was referring to your shot which is obviously just a test shot for the purpose.

The real power of Lightroom is in the presets and applying them automatically.
For example on import Lightroom:
1) Renames all files to my preferred naming convention (yyyy.mm.dd@hh.mm.ss) so that I have a consistent file name convention
2) Copies the files to my server into a directory structure (yyyy/yyy-mm-dd) it builds automatically so each day's shoot is in a separate folder
3) Makes a second copy to an external hard drive on my local machine for archival purposes
4) Applies a metadata preset with my copyright and other legal information
5) Applies any keywords that I might want added to the files
6) Applies a develop preset that is camera specific, so files from the K-1 get a different preset than those from the K-3II or from the Sony
7) Makes full size previews so I can review without having to wait once everything is done processing

I list this not to say you should do all of those things but to show the power of Lightroom to automate things.

To get a develop preset running:
1) Take some good pictures using RAW+ and import both the RAW and the jpg. The jpg is to give you a reference to what the camera is doing internally with it's develop instructions. But remember there are a number of in-camera jpg presets and then you can tweak all of the settings manually.
2) Using the develop tools work up the RAW to suite your tastes. Use the jpg as a reference (good or bad). Leave things a little weak on most settings, this is a generic import preset and you want it to work for the majority of your images. If you go too strong it might be OK for that image but not for many others. You can always tweak particular images later. This is just to get 95% of the way for average good images.
3) When done, save the preset over on the left. I call mine by Camera Name so "K-1 Import" or "K-3II Import"
4) Right click and select "apply on import" Now that preset will have a little plus sign behind it indicating it is the default import develop preset
5) Now over on the import screen (click import) setup your "Import Preset" for each camera. Not that this is not the same as the "Develop Preset" you built above. But the develop preset will be included in the Import Preset
6) On the right setup all the panels the way you want them. Metadata preset, develop preset, renaming, save location, directory structure
7) On the bottom there is a little box for the import preset. Open that and save your settings as an Import Preset. Mine is just the camera name. "K-1", "K-3II"
8) All done. Try some sample images to make sure it all works right

Lots of tedious setup, but only done once. The alternative is doing all of those steps manually on each import. Not fun. The tricky things is that presets cascade. So you need to build your metadata preset and your develop preset first then include those inside the Import Preset.
Thank you very much, jatrax. That is very good to know. A little over my head, for now, but I will work through it. I will print this, and refer back to it. My 17 yr. old Son knows more about computers than most. I will get his help in following your steps. I guess my job now is to go out and get some nice shots worthy of a preset. That lens is going to be a real pleasure to use. I'm used to the FA Limited lenses that I got with my K-1, in January, so the focusing on my 15-30 seemed instant. Overall, it exceeds my expectations. That will make you smile.
Regards

---------- Post added 04-16-18 at 04:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think kh1234567890 was referring to generic 'other' people who insist that straight out of camera is in some way better or more honest. Or something. I do not believe he was referring to your shot which is obviously just a test shot for the purpose.

The real power of Lightroom is in the presets and applying them automatically.
For example on import Lightroom:
1) Renames all files to my preferred naming convention (yyyy.mm.dd@hh.mm.ss) so that I have a consistent file name convention
2) Copies the files to my server into a directory structure (yyyy/yyy-mm-dd) it builds automatically so each day's shoot is in a separate folder
3) Makes a second copy to an external hard drive on my local machine for archival purposes
4) Applies a metadata preset with my copyright and other legal information
5) Applies any keywords that I might want added to the files
6) Applies a develop preset that is camera specific, so files from the K-1 get a different preset than those from the K-3II or from the Sony
7) Makes full size previews so I can review without having to wait once everything is done processing

I list this not to say you should do all of those things but to show the power of Lightroom to automate things.

To get a develop preset running:
1) Take some good pictures using RAW+ and import both the RAW and the jpg. The jpg is to give you a reference to what the camera is doing internally with it's develop instructions. But remember there are a number of in-camera jpg presets and then you can tweak all of the settings manually.
2) Using the develop tools work up the RAW to suite your tastes. Use the jpg as a reference (good or bad). Leave things a little weak on most settings, this is a generic import preset and you want it to work for the majority of your images. If you go too strong it might be OK for that image but not for many others. You can always tweak particular images later. This is just to get 95% of the way for average good images.
3) When done, save the preset over on the left. I call mine by Camera Name so "K-1 Import" or "K-3II Import"
4) Right click and select "apply on import" Now that preset will have a little plus sign behind it indicating it is the default import develop preset
5) Now over on the import screen (click import) setup your "Import Preset" for each camera. Not that this is not the same as the "Develop Preset" you built above. But the develop preset will be included in the Import Preset
6) On the right setup all the panels the way you want them. Metadata preset, develop preset, renaming, save location, directory structure
7) On the bottom there is a little box for the import preset. Open that and save your settings as an Import Preset. Mine is just the camera name. "K-1", "K-3II"
8) All done. Try some sample images to make sure it all works right

Lots of tedious setup, but only done once. The alternative is doing all of those steps manually on each import. Not fun. The tricky things is that presets cascade. So you need to build your metadata preset and your develop preset first then include those inside the Import Preset.
John,
I just finished looking at your website. Oh my goodness, it is stunning! You certainly have a God given talent. Your site is on my desktop now, so I get to enjoy it over, and over.
Terry
2 Days Ago   #22
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Hi

Since it was me going off topic I might as well use this opportunity to help you to free yourself from the shackles of old film habits. Digital photography opens doors in many ways.

Just on the topic of washed out highlights I see here on this forum plenty of cases where people don't take full advantage of what digital photography can offer. In particular, pictures taken with the K-1 have an ability almost like no other camera which will allow you to recover highlights if you know how to expose the picture in the first place.

The trick is to expose the picture to the left, meaning you will purposefully underexpose the shot. (As against exposing to the right, over exposing) This means you give the camera a chance to capture as much detail in the highlights as possible with the downside being the rest of the pic will be, sometimes badly, too dark. But with this technique you now have recorded enough highlight details which can be recovered in post by adjusting the highlight slider. The shadows will be left alone. All you have to do now is lift the shadows, tweek the colours a bit, and you have a picture you would struggled with in the old film days. (Well I started off in film as a youngster and I know there are ways to achieve this, with filter manely, but not as easily or successfully) But you must shoot in RAW format to be able to do this.

See example below. These were shot with the K-3, the K-1 is even better.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3  Photo 

Last edited by Schraubstock; 2 Days Ago at 05:13 PM.
2 Days Ago   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
Wow, I just looked at the Lee system and they really are expensive.
I did say it wasn't cheap

Another thing you can experiment with is the K1 HDR mode. Or take a number of pictures of the scene and then combine them in PP.

When a scene has a greater dynamic range than the camera can deal with, one has to do some work to get the image one wants.

1 Day Ago   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
I did say it wasn't cheap

Another thing you can experiment with is the K1 HDR mode. Or take a number of pictures of the scene and then combine them in PP.

When a scene has a greater dynamic range than the camera can deal with, one has to do some work to get the image one wants.
Hi Peter,
Oh, if I need the Lee system, I'm sure I'll get it. It looks really nice. Thanks for recommending one. I'm looking forward to learning how to use ND filters. What would be the basic filters to start with?
I'll sure try the HDR mode. I'll read about it in the manual and try it.

---------- Post added 04-17-18 at 02:21 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
Hi

Since it was me going off topic I might as well use this opportunity to help you to free yourself from the shackles of old film habits. Digital photography opens doors in many ways.

Just on the topic of washed out highlights I see here on this forum plenty of cases where people don't take full advantage of what digital photography can offer. In particular, pictures taken with the K-1 have an ability almost like no other camera which will allow you to recover highlights if you know how to expose the picture in the first place.

The trick is to expose the picture to the left, meaning you will purposefully underexpose the shot. (As against exposing to the right, over exposing) This means you give the camera a chance to capture as much detail in the highlights as possible with the downside being the rest of the pic will be, sometimes badly, too dark. But with this technique you now have recorded enough highlight details which can be recovered in post by adjusting the highlight slider. The shadows will be left alone. All you have to do now is lift the shadows, tweek the colours a bit, and you have a picture you would struggled with in the old film days. (Well I started off in film as a youngster and I know there are ways to achieve this, with filter manely, but not as easily or successfully) But you must shoot in RAW format to be able to do this.

See example below. These were shot with the K-3, the K-1 is even better.
Wow, what a nice example. Thank's for explaining the technique so well. I'm going to try that right away. I definitely know where the highlight slider is, but have never used it. I've always shot jpeg, up until last month.
1 Day Ago   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by TerryL Quote
What would be the basic filters to start with?
Have a look on the Lee website The LEE SW150 Mark II Filter System especially designed for a range of popular ultra-wideangle lenses. There are a number of videos detailing the kit and the various filters. Have a look on youtube too.

The choices of stop-differential will depend on your subjects, but 2 or 3 stop would be a good place to start. You can experiment before you buy by metering a scene like your railcar using spot metering and see what the difference actually is.

The choice of gradation (hard/soft etc) will again depend on the type of scene you mostly shoot.

The beauty of a system like Lee is that you can use more than one filter, so combine a ND grad with a 10 stop ND or a polariser.
14 Hours Ago   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Have a look on the Lee website The LEE SW150 Mark II Filter System especially designed for a range of popular ultra-wideangle lenses. There are a number of videos detailing the kit and the various filters. Have a look on youtube too.

The choices of stop-differential will depend on your subjects, but 2 or 3 stop would be a good place to start. You can experiment before you buy by metering a scene like your railcar using spot metering and see what the difference actually is.

The choice of gradation (hard/soft etc) will again depend on the type of scene you mostly shoot.

The beauty of a system like Lee is that you can use more than one filter, so combine a ND grad with a 10 stop ND or a polariser.
Hey, thank you. I'm anxious to see their site. I'm sure it will explain a lot. Learning something every day! I love it.
Terry
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