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08-13-2018, 05:09 PM   #1
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New to photography - looking for advices on the Pentax system

Hello everyone,

Long story short, i'm a iphonographer since 2012 and got really into photography after buying some Moment Lenses for my iPhone (1). After shooting with them for a couple of month now, i feel that i'm ready to buy my first "real" camera.

I did my homework and the Fuji X mount system made the most sense for me. The lenses are great (but expensive) and i can start shooting with an affordable XT100...without being stuck if I want to upgrade in the future (i.e. XH1). I was already ready to buy this Fuji when I tumble upon this very YouTube video (2) about the Pentax KP. Then i remembered why my father used to shoot on a Pentax: a well built body, with IBIS, great weather-sealing and affordable lenses.


Working in agriculture i've learned that a simple but well built systems are often more efficient than a cutting edge products hard to understand. So here is what i'm looking for: a comprehensive lens system that allows me to evolve with the upcoming technology without having to buy a new set of lenses every 10 years and a good lineup of sturdy camera body that can handle my line of work.


So here are my questions:
  1. PRIME LENSES: Can I find a good equivalent to the Fuji XF 35mm F2 (the nifty fifty on an APSC Sensor), XF23mm F2, XF56mm F1.2 (awesome bokeh for portraits) and the XF16 mm F1.4 (wide)? I have read/seen a lot of good review on these Fuji lenses and would like to have the some "equivalent" in the Pentax K-Mount system (Pentax KP).
  2. ZOOM LENS: I'm looking for an affordable zoom for landscape photography (i.e. 55-230 mm for example)
  3. AUTOFOCUS: I've heard that autofocus is great for beginner, but some 3rd party (or old lenses) don't have it. What's your take on that? I there enough Pentax lenses in the focal lengh i need with autofocus?
  4. PENTAX: Sony and other brands has been heavily marketing their mirror-less platforms. Do you think that Pentax is a good bet on the long run? I'm totally fine with the "buy once, cry once" old adage, especially when i comes to lenses. But is Pentax is rational choice in this mirroless age?
  5. BODY: Pentax KP seems to be an obvious choice: quite new, not too big (vs a regular mirrorless), sturdy (Quebec winters + pickup rides), with IBIS and easy to use.
Feel free to let me know what you think. I'm very open minded and i'm here to learn.

Thanks in advance

Tanguy



(1) Moment | Moment - Mobile Photography Gear, Apps, and Travel
(2)


08-13-2018, 06:04 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
Can I find a good equivalent to the Fuji XF 35mm F2 (the nifty fifty on an APSC Sensor), XF23mm F2, XF56mm F1.2 (awesome bokeh for portraits) and the XF16 mm F1.4 (wide)? I have read/seen a lot of good review on these Fuji lenses and would like to have the some "equivalent" in the Pentax K-Mount system (Pentax KP).
The Pentax APS-C primes tend to be slower, in aperture, than the Fuji's. The only f1.4 prime in the Pentax line-up is the DA* 55/1.4. Pentax's compact limited lenses tend to slow apertures. They're not optically perfect, but in their sweet spot, they are about as good as gets, combining technical excellence with life-like rendering, stunning contrast, and beautiful colors. There's a 15mm f4 — small and compact, with excellent flare control, but much slower in aperture than the Fuji 16/1.4. There's a 21 f3.2 pancake lens — again, significantly slower than that Fuji 23 f2. Only the DA* 55/1.4 comes close in aperture to the Fuji equivalent.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
ZOOM LENS: I'm looking for an affordable zoom for landscape photography (i.e. 55-230 mm for example)
Plenty of options here. The DA 16-85 f3.5-5.6 is a great landscape lens, as is the DA 55-300 f4.5-6.3 PLM. Pentax, unlike other brands, does not discriminate against slow aperture glass. They make some great slow aperture lenses, which is great for landscape photography. Next year Pentax will release a DA* 11-18 which will probably be best in class among APS-C wide angle zooms.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
AUTOFOCUS: I've heard that autofocus is great for beginner, but some 3rd party (or old lenses) don't have it. What's your take on that? I there enough Pentax lenses in the focal lengh i need with autofocus?
Other than fast wide angle and normal prime lenses, the Pentax APS-C line-up provides a generous selection of superb APS-C zoom and prime lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
Sony and other brands has been heavily marketing their mirror-less platforms. Do you think that Pentax is a good bet on the long run?
I think they're a decent bet. In the last few years they've been working on some super-ambitious lenses that have kind of tied up their resources and made them seem like they're not doing anything. But next year we'll see three lenses, maybe a camera, and with super ambitious lenses out of the way, I think things we'll start speeding up again. Within a few years they'll fill out their FF line-up and begin work shoring up the APS-C line-up. They're not going to dazzle you with gaudy technology like Sony; but unlike Sony, Pentax has a long tradition in photography that they can tap into, and that counts for something.
08-13-2018, 06:16 PM - 4 Likes   #3
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Welcome to the forums.

I was in your position 2 years ago. I was looking at Canon and Nikon then discovered Sony. I eventually discovered Pentax.

Here is the deal. I am going to start with the bad. Pentax is not one of the popular brands for third party products. There are also a couple of web sites that are notorious for bashing Pentax. Pentax is definitely not the camera I would chose if I were to shoot video.

You will also hear people complain that Pentax’s focus system is terrible. Pentax may not be the fastest focusing system out there but I find it more than sufficient.

Now let’s get to why I chose Pentax.

In my opinion Nobody builds a camera better. All current and recent cameras are weather resistant. For all the other manufacturers you need to buy their high end cameras for thousands of dolllars to get wr if they even offer it.

Value is the next reason I chose Pentax. I looked at all the other brands different models, prices and features. Not even close Pentax wins hands down.

You mentioned lens support. Any lens ever manufactured for use for Pentax SLR can still be used on a new Pentax DSLR. The M42 mounts require an easily obtainable adapter.

And another reason is Pentaxians are not followers. They do not buy gear because this person has it or that person says you need this. They buy what works for them and they have come to expect the value that Pentax provides.

And finally if you are not sold yet. There is this forum. You cannot believe the amount of support you get from the members here. If you don’t believe me check out the sites for the other brands. You’ll be back.

Regarding the KP I suggest you go to a camera store or rent one before you make your final decision.
08-13-2018, 06:40 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
So here is what i'm looking for: a comprehensive lens system that allows me to evolve with the upcoming technology without having to buy a new set of lenses every 10 years and a good lineup of sturdy camera body that can handle my line of work.
Yes - budget will matter and knowing if the APSC or FF camera is your ultimate goal will inform the choices we suggest.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
PRIME LENSES: Can I find a good equivalent to the Fuji XF 35mm F2 (the nifty fifty on an APSC Sensor), XF23mm F2, XF56mm F1.2 (awesome bokeh for portraits) and the XF16 mm F1.4 (wide)? I have read/seen a lot of good review on these Fuji lenses and would like to have the some "equivalent" in the Pentax K-Mount system (Pentax KP).
FA 35 f/2, FA 31 f/1.8 Limited, Sigma 35 f/1.4 all can fill this role - all of these are FF also. Additionally the DA 35 f/2.8 macro is a stunning lens that is very small and has lovely rendering and sharpness.
The DA 21 is f3.2 - giving slower aperture but brilliant sharpness. An alternative is the DA Limited 20-40 which is f2.8 at the 20mm end and f/4 at the 40mm end. This is a stunning lens that fills a lot of options - it's smallish and lightweight and while a zoom it doesn't really feel like you are using one.
DA 55 f/1.4 or DFA 50 f/1.4 are the most likely to fill your portrait needs.
DA 15 f/4 or DA 14 f/2.8 could fit your wide needs but there are also Samyang and other lenses that you could consider here that are faster but quite a few are manual focus only. There are also some nice wide zooms like the DA 12-24 f/4 from Pentax


QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
[ZOOM LENS: I'm looking for an affordable zoom for landscape photography (i.e. 55-230 mm for example)
HD DA 55-300 f/4.5-f/6.3 WR PLM RE - the PLM is very important. This is a fast focusing nice lightweight zoom. There are alternatives like the DA* 60-250 which are heavier and have faster aperture and more sharpness but these are heavier. The DFA 70-200 f/2.8 is also an option as are Tokina and Sigma lenses (used) in the same focal length and aperture.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
AUTOFOCUS: I've heard that autofocus is great for beginner, but some 3rd party (or old lenses) don't have it. What's your take on that? I there enough Pentax lenses in the focal lengh i need with autofocus?
Pentax has the most amazing native vintage lens collection - so you can go outside of the Autofocus bubble and find a very wide range of lenses - but of course a lot of these can also be used on mirrorless systems without a lot of fuss. The AF lens collection is a little more limited than some (Canon and Nikon) and the design philosophy is different for many of the lenses than the competition.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
PENTAX: Sony and other brands has been heavily marketing their mirror-less platforms. Do you think that Pentax is a good bet on the long run? I'm totally fine with the "buy once, cry once" old adage, especially when i comes to lenses. But is Pentax is rational choice in this mirroless age?
Yes and no. It really depends. Coming from the iPhone you are used to composing from an LCD. The optical viewfinder is still cherished by many and for good reasons. However if mirrorless is your better fit - Pentax isn't currently showing any real activity in this area. Sony / Fuji / Panasonic / and Olympus rule in the mirrorless world. Each with their own niche.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
BODY: Pentax KP seems to be an obvious choice: quite new, not too big (vs a regular mirrorless), sturdy (Quebec winters + pickup rides), with IBIS and easy to use.
The jury on that camera is still out in terms of ergonomics for some users used to larger bodies. I think most people are happy with it. There is little to say negative, the performance from an APSC sensor is also quite good for low light high iso shots.

08-13-2018, 06:41 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
AUTOFOCUS: I've heard that autofocus is great for beginner, but some 3rd party (or old lenses) don't have it. What's your take on that? I there enough Pentax lenses in the focal lengh i need with autofocus?
The lens database in the forum is a good place to look for current and old lenses offered by Pentax or 3rd party manufacturers.

Pentax Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
A disadvantage of the Pentax system is limited support from 3rd party manufacturers like Tamron or Sigma but if you can't find current offerings of a lens you need, there are many old lenses around with quite some life left.
AF is nice to have but it depends on your subjects if it really is a necessety, i.e. if your main interest is landscape photography you probably have enough time to focus manually. And with some practice MF isn't slow either.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
ZOOM LENS: I'm looking for an affordable zoom for landscape photography (i.e. 55-230 mm for example)
I don't have one but as consumer zoom lenses I read good things about the HD Pentax-DA 55-300mm F4-5.8 ED WR or the newer HD Pentax-DA 55-300mm F4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tanguy Quote
PENTAX: Sony and other brands has been heavily marketing their mirror-less platforms. Do you think that Pentax is a good bet on the long run? I'm totally fine with the "buy once, cry once" old adage, especially when i comes to lenses. But is Pentax is rational choice in this mirroless age?
Both systems have their advantages. Mirror-less has the advantage that you can see directly in the viewfinder how your picture will turn out with your current settings (exposure, color/black&white,...) and you can activate settings that outline where your focus is exactly (only in LV with SLRs possible). Optical viewfinders save a lot of battery power (and older mirrorless cameras might show some lagging behind the actuall movement, but with new models this should be obsolete) and I actually prefer them optically but thats individual taste and habit. When it comes to weight and size advantages of mirrorless cameras it actually depends on the camera/lens combination that is used and a heavier camera can actually be a good thing because it helps to stabilise your shot.
08-13-2018, 06:43 PM - 1 Like   #6
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Hello,

I've been shooting Pentax for a year now, trying different lenses, getting familiar with the Pentax system.

1) There are four fast 50-55mm primes: dirt cheap Da 50mm 1.8, 55mm 1.4, plus two 50mm 1.4; so many options for portraits and smooth bokeh (plus there are 70 and 77mm)

There's no fast 23 or similar length, but the 20-40 zoomis f2.8 at 23, has lovely rendering and image, and is very small and light weight. It would be my choice without seconds thought. The Kp seems the ideal match for the 20-40 zoom.

2) You're looking for the DA 55-300 PLM , a fast focusing, small zoom.

3) Yes there are enough auto focus lenses not to feel shortchanged, and also, don't be afraid or manual focus lenses, is a very entertaining thing to do. You'll also enjoy them.

4) With close to 40 years of compatible K mount lenses, and many upcoming on the product plan, I don't think Pentax is an end road.

5) I'll too choose the Kp in a hearbeat.

Hopefully you come aboard.

Cheers
08-13-2018, 06:44 PM - 1 Like   #7
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Other options:

DA* 50-135 - great apsc only lens that fits the same niche the 70-200 does for ff. SDM focusing system is fragile, but this lens can be reverted to screw drive for noiser focusing that is reliable.

FA 77 limited f1.8 - lovely slightly longer (on APSC) portrait lens. Small and jewel like. DA 70 limited f/2.4 is another take on this length that is not quite as fast but it is very small.

08-13-2018, 07:46 PM   #8
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I was making a similar decision about 2 and a half years ago, and had had a rather nice canon bridge camera, so if anything there was that brand bias. Fuji or m43 were attractive at the time, but the electronic viewfinder was the biggest turnoff.
In the end, I chose Pentax and picked a set of small primes for the focal lengths I knew I'd like (normal, portrait, wide angle), then a two zooms to cover the rest. This wasn't that straightforward, I sold a few lenses along the way as my use cases changed, but overall it's easy to find something suitable in the pentax system for any use case, for apsc it's very well rounded imo.

To begin with, I'd say get a 16-85, 18-135 or something similar to go from wide to medium tele at the expense of aperture, and then either a normal (35mm on apsc) or a portrait (50-70mm on apsc) wider aperture lens. Then refine from there if you need to. Jumping to very very wide angles or large tele lenses requires some gradual technique learning, and also the use cases are more targeted.

I wouldn't say autofocus is for beginners, but you can save some money buying manual focus lenses, new or old. The catch is that you really need to know you're not going to need autofocus (for example, I for one would rather not shoot concerts with a manual focus lens; but for landscapes af is less of a necessity).
08-13-2018, 07:58 PM   #9
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Thank for the detailed answers. I will take some time dig into you answer and make a comprehensive list my needs (roughly the wide 12-24mm lens, one of the 35 mm, the 55-330 zoom and maybe a 50 something portrait lens i have enough money left). I was planing to spend around 2000-2500 CA$ on the kit (camera + lenses). I've found 1 camera store selling Pentax not too far away. Will visit them over the weekend.

---------- Post added 08-13-18 at 08:05 PM ----------

I want also mention that i prefer APS-C type camera for their smaller size. Also i don't really care about video (and 4K) capabilities since my cellphone can do it easily.

Thanks again for your time & detailed answers!
08-13-2018, 09:06 PM   #10
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If small and compact appeals the kp with some nice primes will work quite well. The 12-24 or a 10-20 sigma or even the 8-16 sigma are all options but the jewel like DA 15 f4 is hard to beat.
08-14-2018, 02:19 AM   #11
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Welcome to the forum. Your questions regarding the KP and the Pentax system are interesting. As others have said, the Pentax system appeals to beginners, offering more advanced build quality and features even in their least DSLR model, while in concept being biased towards the experienced photographer who has an extensive background in using photographic equipment. Many of us go way back in many years of shooting with Pentax, using 35 mm film cameras and lenses, the format being the same size as FF (full-frame) digital sensors.

Again as others have said, the mirrorless systems have their advantages and disadvantages. The fundamental idea has been to reduce size by omitting the mirror system. This has worked to a degree, although in striving for that I have noticed they often also omit a number of features, cutting controls and even an available built-in flash.

Many, including myself, prefer an optical viewfinder (OVF) over en electronic VF (EVF). An OVF displays reality, since you are actually looking through the lens at your subject, rather than an electronic representation of reality. This is an important essential of a DSLR camera, and Pentax now offers only the highest quality pro-style OVF in all of their DSLR models.

The KP's design is for very high quality combined with compactness. Some people prefer a bulkier build design for that style of ergonomics. It is doubtful that they would be happy with a mirrorless design for that reason, in addition to lack of an OVF. But the KP has the potential to expand its size to a degree that will suit various users with its different grip sizes, and also with an optional battery grip, which not only extends its gripping surface, but also greatly expands battery life and provides duplicate controls for extensive vertical shooting, as in portrait orientation. I've had extensive experience with film bodies of varying designs, both compact and bulky, so I can adjust instantly between my bulkier DSLR bodies and the KP- no problem. I bought a spiffy silver one, which reminds me of some classic MF compact 35mm film bodies I used to shoot with, and I also have some silver lenses, although black ones look great on it too. After a year, I liked the KP so much, I bought a second body!

Many of the Pentax Limited primes are not of the fastest aperture designs in order to be in keeping with the overall goal of high quality with compactness. Faster, large aperture designs must be heavier and larger. Optics and build quality of these Limited lenses are excellent. The KP with such lenses makes for pro-quality in build and optics, yet with maximum portability. Its imaging quality, and particularly its performance in low light/higher ISO sensitivity are outstanding in the arena of APS-C. Its design goal was for a compact DSLR which would be very close to the FF K-1 in all respects, but in an APS-C format. The consensus is that it has succeeded in this beyond expectation. Numerous photographers who shoot with the K-1 have chosen the KP as their secondary APS-C camera when they need the lighter, smaller body.

I do wonder about some things in your opening statement. Since you are new to photography, and your experience has been with your phone, I am wondering about your expectation regarding various focal lengths and their uses with an APS-C camera. Take needing 55-300mm for landscape use for example. Yes, this FL range could be used for landscape, but it is a rather specialized use. The perspective would be compressed, the degree of which depends on the FL used. Only occasionally do landscape photographers desire this effect, and for certain landscapes. Others want wide angle lenses for their landscape needs. But this will have the opposite result- however, they know this from experience. Still others often wish to present a very accurate perspective in their landscape shots. (perspective in landscapes= the sizes of nearer objects in relationship to sizes of far objects in shots taken from a not-close distance). With APS-C, this can be achieved with a lens of 28mm FL.

It is most common for people not fully experienced to choose zoom lenses, which of course offer varying FLs so they can address a variety of needs as they find out what those are. The zoom lens should have a good, versatile FL range which would be different for APS-C vs. FF.

I recommend that you consider the KP with the DA 18-135mm DC WR lens for its very wide zoom range, its having very quiet and among the fastest and most accurate AF in Pentax lenses, very compact for its zoom range to go with the compact concept of the KP, is affordable, yet very well-built. Its image quality is very high, and can actually provide very good closeups. Bokeh is surprisingly fine! Then, the DA 55-300mm PLM tele zoom. Very fast, accurate AF. You can find imaging examples in the DSLR lens section- show us what the DA 18-135mm can do... Finally, since you mention a fast prime for portraits with fine bokeh, the good old FA 50mm f/1.4, which is a FF lens, and is very good when used with APS-C as a portrait lens. It doesn't come with a lens hood, but you can get a screw-on hood at a cheap price. Keep in mind you might not be using f/1.4 all that often. The depth-of-field (DOF) at certain distances is so shallow at this aperture, only an inch or so within the image will be sharp.

This kit should fit within your budget, and serve a wide range of needs. At some later time, you might want to add the very fine, very small DA 15mm Limited (it comes in silver also) or the DA 12-24mm f/4. As a very versatile prime, later on you might also be interested in the DA 21mm as a high-quality walk-around, multi-purpose, very compact single focal length shooter, which is delightful on the KP. There was another Canadian who posted here not long ago, that he got a fantastic deal on a KP, maybe from Amazon Canada? I cannot recall offhand.

Last edited by mikesbike; 08-14-2018 at 02:47 AM.
08-14-2018, 03:34 AM - 1 Like   #12
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Lots of good suggestions above. One lens that was not mentioned is the DAL 34 2.4 small, light, and inexpensive but is a nice piece of glass none the less. Regarding the KP. I think it's a great choice, especially since you've been looking at a mirrorless body. The KP has an electronic shutter option for live view shooting (using the rear LCD) that is absolutely silent, although it does turn of the IBIS. I use quite often and am still surprised about how quite it is. Many of the Pentax zooms and a few of the primes are water resistant and it a nice feature to have going long with the body. I don't really shoot in the rain but have been caught out in the rain a lot, and it's one big thing to not have to worry about.
08-14-2018, 05:00 AM - 1 Like   #13
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Fuji system is good, but also quite expensive. Even more so that the used market is almost nonexistent...
Plenty of good suggestions above for lenses. Unless you have very specific needs, you shouldn’t have any problems finding what you need in the Pentax lineup.
Also don’t forget to consider that Fuji will not provide stabilization with most lenses . Meaning that a quite affordable DA35 2.4 with 5-stops IBIS, as with the KP, will be much more useful and versatile than a 35 2.0 on a Fuji...
For portrait, the DA70 is a wonderful lens. But any of the 50 will give very good results, even the cheap 50 1.8.

Last edited by CarlJF; 08-14-2018 at 05:11 AM.
08-14-2018, 05:05 AM - 2 Likes   #14
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The best all around kit would be a KP with the 55-300 PLM, a 20-40, a 15 and a macro lens. Add a steady tripod and an Astrotracer and you are set.

Basically that is my dream kit.
08-14-2018, 05:27 AM   #15
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If I had to only pick one body and one lens, I'd choose the KP & 55-300 plm. You'll soon work out whether you need to go longer or shorter. The 3 wheel system is a dream to use once you're off the (very capable) auto setting.

LBA means I also need my old 50-500mm f4-6.3 sigma for afl football and 10-20mm f3.5 sigma for landscapes and astro. The various manual 50's cos they're cheap and so on...

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