Unexposed Film with Pentax ME Super

njlabodin · 08-20-2018, 04:50 PM

Hello, everybody.
I wanted to get into film photography, so I picked up a camera for cheap, a ME Super with a Starblitz 75-200mm macro lens (came with the camera). I got some fujicolor 200 film and set off shooting and everything seemed to be working fine. That is until I had the 1st roll developed and it turned out to be a blank roll. Film numbers show up so I don't think that it was a error with the processing. The shutter appears to work as well and the film advances, so I'm at a loss for what could be wrong . Please excuse me if this is in the wrong area or this was a little light on info, I'm an absolute beginner to this.

Thank you in advance - Nick

**Bob 256** · 08-20-2018, 05:14 PM - **1 Like**

Hi Nick - Welcome to the Pentax group,

Can you open the back of the camera with no film in it (lens off) and take a shot (maybe around 1/60s) looking through the film area toward a broad bright light source? Does the shutter open and close? If the shutter appears to be working, put the lens back on, set a wide open aperture, and repeat. Do you still see light when the shutter opens and does it look like the lens is fully open as selected? If that's happening, you should be getting something on the film unless the images were grossly underexposed for some reason. That would leave shutter speed and lens aperture as suspect. You can try different lens apertures and see if the lens is closing down if a median aperture is selected (say f8). Try slower and higher shutter speeds without a lens and you can tell if the shutter is working over a range of speeds. That would rule out the camera for the most part.

Did you notice the tail end of the film that is sometimes sent back with the negatives? Did it have an exposed end (since it would have been sticking out of the roll when you loaded the camera). If that is clear, something went wrong in developing (frame numbers should be an indicator that processing took place however). Let us know what you come up with.

njlabodin · 08-20-2018, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the quick reply.

So I tried your suggestions and unless I'm just completely inept, the camera itself seems to be working fine, shutter operated at the different speeds and I don't see anything while it is closed.

In terms of the negatives, the end I fed in is completely black and is the only thing on the film outside of the exposure numbers.

**TwoUptons** · 08-20-2018, 06:50 PM

It may not have loaded properly. How did you know when to rewind the film? Did the film advance stop? Or did you rewind at 24 or 36 on the counter?

Having the film not catch properly is pretty common on a new to you camera. You should also be able to see the rewind knob go backwards each time you advance the film (though not always at the beginning of a roll).

-Eric

**twilhelm** · 08-20-2018, 07:53 PM

Yep, the film didn’t catch and advance. Make sure the tongue has fully caught in the splines, and start advancing the film before you close the back. When you advance each frame, the rewind knob will spin if the film is advancing.

**catfishjohn** · 08-20-2018, 08:00 PM - **1 Like**

A method I used in the olden days was to fold the end of the film when loading. Just fold the end of the film, about a three sixteenth length. Crease it so its at right angle to the film. Insert this into the take up spool and wind as usual. The end will be secure and not come out by accident. When the film roll is exposed and you rewind you will feel a tight spot at the end as you rewind and the bend pulls out of the spool. This tells you that you have reached the end of the roll. Also helps if you do not want to fully wind the tail into the can as you can stop when you feel it pull out of the spool. I did this for years and it always worked fine.

peggers · 08-21-2018, 02:19 AM

I loved my ME Super and still have it along with a power winder. That film loading spool was cutting edge back in the day.

njlabodin · 08-21-2018, 03:51 AM

I don't think that the film wasn't advancing because I remember feeling the resistance of it as I was rewinding. I also sacrificed a roll I had in there yesterday to check if that was the case as well and the film had advanced like it was supposed to.

**twilhelm** · 08-21-2018, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by njlabodin

I don't think that the film wasn't advancing because I remember feeling the resistance of it as I was rewinding. I also sacrificed a roll I had in there yesterday to check if that was the case as well and the film had advanced like it was supposed to.

What makes it likely is when you mentioned part of the developed film was dark, and the rest was clear, as though all of the exposures ended up on the first frame.
It is possible that was just the leader part which was exposed when loading the film, but then the camera would be under exposing the film severely.

Do you have a loupe or good quality magnifying glass? If so, check the negatives carefully to see if they are completely clear or if there is any sort of latent image on them.

**Bob 256** · 08-21-2018, 07:48 AM

From what you said, the other replies are spot on - the film didn't load properly and get pulled through for any exposures. I'm not sure about the ME, but my Pentax film camera has a sprocket wheel and it's important that the film engages that wheel well past the tip of the film when loading. If the wheel is engaged so it can pull the film, I've never had a failure. If the film lies short or off to the side of the sprocket, chances are, a bad load will happen.

Ontarian50 · 08-21-2018, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by njlabodin

I don't think that the film wasn't advancing because I remember feeling the resistance of it as I was rewinding. I also sacrificed a roll I had in there yesterday to check if that was the case as well and the film had advanced like it was supposed to.

As you said, you are a beginner to all this, and it takes a practiced hand to tell the difference between winding and cocking the shutter and mirror with and without film.

If the camera shutter is working fine, then you would have got something on film - no guarantee of good exposures, or good focus, but there would have been something there.

What you need is an old expired junk roll of film (did you keep that "sacrificed" roll?), and to practise loading, winding, and rewinding the film - try to stop rewinding before the leader disappears inside the cassette, so you can give it another try or two. But yes, as stated above, the only sure thing is to make sure the rewind knob revolves as you wind on - that way you're sure film is coming out of the cassette properly.

I was never a fan of the Pentax "Magic needle" film spool, but many manufacturers tried various kinds of film loading methods in that era, knowing that a good number of people got it wrong and ended up with no pictures. Showing something white and shiny, with lots of slots must have made it look more attractive in the brochure and the camera store. Whether it worked any better .... well?

Don't feel too bad - each and every one of us who has shot 35mm film has done the exact same thing - at least once

murrelet · 08-21-2018, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Ontarian50

What you need is an old expired junk roll of film (did you keep that "sacrificed" roll?), and to practise loading, winding, and rewinding the film - try to stop rewinding before the leader disappears inside the cassette, so you can give it another try or two. But yes, as stated above, the only sure thing is to make sure the rewind knob revolves as you wind on - that way you're sure film is coming out of the cassette properly.

One suggestion when practicing with a sacrificial roll... practice with the camera back open so you can see what's happening. You gain the muscle memory for when it loads/advances/rewinds correctly. Then practice with the film back closed.

---------- Post added 08-21-18 at 08:25 AM ----------

Originally posted by twilhelm

What makes it likely is when you mentioned part of the developed film was dark, and the rest was clear, as though all of the exposures ended up on the first frame.
It is possible that was just the leader part which was exposed when loading the film, but then the camera would be under exposing the film severely.

One thought... could the rewind button on the bottom of the camera have been engaged? So the film advance lever only cocks the shutter but doesn't advance the film?

njlabodin · 08-21-2018, 08:30 AM

Thank you all for the help, I'll try and check all those things when I get home from work. The rewind button may well have been stuck on, but idk.

As for that film that I took out of the camera is there a way to unspool the film so that I can practice loading and unloading?

**twilhelm** · 08-21-2018, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by njlabodin

Thank you all for the help, I'll try and check all those things when I get home from work. The rewind button may well have been stuck on, but idk.

As for that film that I took out of the camera is there a way to unspool the film so that I can practice loading and unloading?

There’s two ways to do it. You can buy a leader retriever, which is hard to find outside of ordering one. Or, I’ve done this when testing cameras, carefully use a can opener to pop one of the lids off. Reset the film, straighten the lid if necessary and push it back on. It won’t be a perfect fit, but will work in your camera for practice.

Penview52 · 08-21-2018, 08:49 AM

Have you checked the film expiry date?

08-20-2018, 04:50 PM	#1
njlabodin New Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 6	Unexposed Film with Pentax ME Super Hello, everybody. I wanted to get into film photography, so I picked up a camera for cheap, a ME Super with a Starblitz 75-200mm macro lens (came with the camera). I got some fujicolor 200 film and set off shooting and everything seemed to be working fine. That is until I had the 1st roll developed and it turned out to be a blank roll. Film numbers show up so I don't think that it was a error with the processing. The shutter appears to work as well and the film advances, so I'm at a loss for what could be wrong . Please excuse me if this is in the wrong area or this was a little light on info, I'm an absolute beginner to this. Thank you in advance - Nick

08-20-2018, 08:00 PM - 1 Like	#6
catfishjohn Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Arkansas Posts: 137	Old trick A method I used in the olden days was to fold the end of the film when loading. Just fold the end of the film, about a three sixteenth length. Crease it so its at right angle to the film. Insert this into the take up spool and wind as usual. The end will be secure and not come out by accident. When the film roll is exposed and you rewind you will feel a tight spot at the end as you rewind and the bend pulls out of the spool. This tells you that you have reached the end of the roll. Also helps if you do not want to fully wind the tail into the can as you can stop when you feel it pull out of the spool. I did this for years and it always worked fine.

08-21-2018, 02:19 AM	#7
peggers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Endeavour Hills, Victoria, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 210	ME super I loved my ME Super and still have it along with a power winder. That film loading spool was cutting edge back in the day.

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08-20-2018, 05:14 PM - 1 Like	#2
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Hi Nick - Welcome to the Pentax group, Can you open the back of the camera with no film in it (lens off) and take a shot (maybe around 1/60s) looking through the film area toward a broad bright light source? Does the shutter open and close? If the shutter appears to be working, put the lens back on, set a wide open aperture, and repeat. Do you still see light when the shutter opens and does it look like the lens is fully open as selected? If that's happening, you should be getting something on the film unless the images were grossly underexposed for some reason. That would leave shutter speed and lens aperture as suspect. You can try different lens apertures and see if the lens is closing down if a median aperture is selected (say f8). Try slower and higher shutter speeds without a lens and you can tell if the shutter is working over a range of speeds. That would rule out the camera for the most part. Did you notice the tail end of the film that is sometimes sent back with the negatives? Did it have an exposed end (since it would have been sticking out of the roll when you loaded the camera). If that is clear, something went wrong in developing (frame numbers should be an indicator that processing took place however). Let us know what you come up with.

08-20-2018, 05:59 PM	#3
njlabodin New Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 6 Original Poster	Thanks for the quick reply. So I tried your suggestions and unless I'm just completely inept, the camera itself seems to be working fine, shutter operated at the different speeds and I don't see anything while it is closed. In terms of the negatives, the end I fed in is completely black and is the only thing on the film outside of the exposure numbers.

08-20-2018, 06:50 PM	#4
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	It may not have loaded properly. How did you know when to rewind the film? Did the film advance stop? Or did you rewind at 24 or 36 on the counter? Having the film not catch properly is pretty common on a new to you camera. You should also be able to see the rewind knob go backwards each time you advance the film (though not always at the beginning of a roll). -Eric

08-20-2018, 07:53 PM	#5
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	Yep, the film didn’t catch and advance. Make sure the tongue has fully caught in the splines, and start advancing the film before you close the back. When you advance each frame, the rewind knob will spin if the film is advancing.

08-21-2018, 03:51 AM	#8
njlabodin New Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 6 Original Poster	I don't think that the film wasn't advancing because I remember feeling the resistance of it as I was rewinding. I also sacrificed a roll I had in there yesterday to check if that was the case as well and the film had advanced like it was supposed to.

08-21-2018, 05:42 AM	#9
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	Originally posted by njlabodin I don't think that the film wasn't advancing because I remember feeling the resistance of it as I was rewinding. I also sacrificed a roll I had in there yesterday to check if that was the case as well and the film had advanced like it was supposed to. What makes it likely is when you mentioned part of the developed film was dark, and the rest was clear, as though all of the exposures ended up on the first frame. It is possible that was just the leader part which was exposed when loading the film, but then the camera would be under exposing the film severely. Do you have a loupe or good quality magnifying glass? If so, check the negatives carefully to see if they are completely clear or if there is any sort of latent image on them.

08-21-2018, 07:48 AM	#10
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	From what you said, the other replies are spot on - the film didn't load properly and get pulled through for any exposures. I'm not sure about the ME, but my Pentax film camera has a sprocket wheel and it's important that the film engages that wheel well past the tip of the film when loading. If the wheel is engaged so it can pull the film, I've never had a failure. If the film lies short or off to the side of the sprocket, chances are, a bad load will happen.

08-21-2018, 07:52 AM	#11
Ontarian50 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 530	Originally posted by njlabodin I don't think that the film wasn't advancing because I remember feeling the resistance of it as I was rewinding. I also sacrificed a roll I had in there yesterday to check if that was the case as well and the film had advanced like it was supposed to. As you said, you are a beginner to all this, and it takes a practiced hand to tell the difference between winding and cocking the shutter and mirror with and without film. If the camera shutter is working fine, then you would have got something on film - no guarantee of good exposures, or good focus, but there would have been *something* there. What you need is an old expired junk roll of film (did you keep that "sacrificed" roll?), and to practise loading, winding, and rewinding the film - try to stop rewinding before the leader disappears inside the cassette, so you can give it another try or two. But yes, as stated above, the only sure thing is to make sure the rewind knob revolves as you wind on - that way you're sure film is coming out of the cassette properly. I was never a fan of the Pentax "Magic needle" film spool, but many manufacturers tried various kinds of film loading methods in that era, knowing that a good number of people got it wrong and ended up with no pictures. Showing something white and shiny, with lots of slots must have made it look more attractive in the brochure and the camera store. Whether it worked any better .... well? Don't feel too bad - each and every one of us who has shot 35mm film has done the exact same thing - at least once

08-21-2018, 08:20 AM	#12
murrelet Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 506	Originally posted by Ontarian50 What you need is an old expired junk roll of film (did you keep that "sacrificed" roll?), and to practise loading, winding, and rewinding the film - try to stop rewinding before the leader disappears inside the cassette, so you can give it another try or two. But yes, as stated above, the only sure thing is to make sure the rewind knob revolves as you wind on - that way you're sure film is coming out of the cassette properly. One suggestion when practicing with a sacrificial roll... practice with the camera back open so you can see what's happening. You gain the muscle memory for when it loads/advances/rewinds correctly. Then practice with the film back closed. ---------- Post added 08-21-18 at 08:25 AM ---------- Originally posted by twilhelm What makes it likely is when you mentioned part of the developed film was dark, and the rest was clear, as though all of the exposures ended up on the first frame. It is possible that was just the leader part which was exposed when loading the film, but then the camera would be under exposing the film severely. One thought... could the rewind button on the bottom of the camera have been engaged? So the film advance lever only cocks the shutter but doesn't advance the film?

08-21-2018, 08:30 AM	#13
njlabodin New Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 6 Original Poster	Thank you all for the help, I'll try and check all those things when I get home from work. The rewind button may well have been stuck on, but idk. As for that film that I took out of the camera is there a way to unspool the film so that I can practice loading and unloading?

08-21-2018, 08:42 AM	#14
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	Originally posted by njlabodin Thank you all for the help, I'll try and check all those things when I get home from work. The rewind button may well have been stuck on, but idk. As for that film that I took out of the camera is there a way to unspool the film so that I can practice loading and unloading? There’s two ways to do it. You can buy a leader retriever, which is hard to find outside of ordering one. Or, I’ve done this when testing cameras, carefully use a can opener to pop one of the lids off. Reset the film, straighten the lid if necessary and push it back on. It won’t be a perfect fit, but will work in your camera for practice.

08-21-2018, 08:49 AM	#15
Penview52 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Photos: Albums Posts: 327	Have you checked the film expiry date?