Longevity for Eneloop batteries

**psoo** · 09-18-2018, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by RKKS08

Modern IC controlled chargers which handle each cell individually use a sawtooth pulse, measuring delta current and voltage with each pulse. So they can decide when a cell is fully loaded without knowing what kind of cell it is. With a full cycle (discharge+charge) this also gives a picture of the health status of the cell.
Deeply discharged (unresponding) cells would first need a current-limited constant voltage till the cell starts to respond; then (after a pause) the pulse loading may get a try. My chargers cannot do this automatically, but I several times successfully revived cells which the intelligent loader marked as dead, by using an old simple (constant voltage) loader first.

I usually use Eneloops on my Kx but my K50 allows me to use a rechargeable ithium battery as well. Can anybody tell me if they will also suffer deterioration with time?

**RKKS08** · 09-19-2018, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by psoo

I usually use Eneloops on my Kx but my K50 allows me to use a rechargeable ithium battery as well. Can anybody tell me if they will also suffer deterioration with time?

Yes they do.

Not related to your question:
Rechargeable Li batteries should only be used with chargers explicitly designed for this type.

Specially for the ones with higher capacity like for DSLRs and notebooks I would be wary about chargers not supplying the 3rd contact (some have a dummy, that's just as bad). These batteries may get too hot during charging, and if the internal temperature gets too high, the charging should be paused automatically, and continued when the temperature is far enough down.
The 3rd contact of the multi-cell batteries takes care for that, if the charger supports it.

**psoo** · 09-19-2018, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by RKKS08

Yes they do.

Not related to your question:
Rechargeable Li batteries should only be used with chargers explicitly designed for this type.

Specially for the ones with higher capacity like for DSLRs and notebooks I would be wary about chargers not supplying the 3rd contact (some have a dummy, that's just as bad). These batteries may get too hot during charging, and if the internal temperature gets too high, the charging should be paused automatically, and continued when the temperature is far enough down.
The 3rd contact of the multi-cell batteries takes care for that, if the charger supports it.

Hi RKK. I do use the Pentax charger for the Pentax-supplied Li battery,for my K50. Hope this keeps the battery in good shape for a long time.

**RKKS08** · 09-19-2018, 02:46 PM - **1 Like**

I use the original Pentax charger for the K-5 and the original charger of Panasonic for the Lumix.

The reserve batteries of both are Pantonas, no problems yet. The Pantonas give less shots than the Pentax ones, and most likely will last half as long, but they cost a fraction of the original batteries from Pentax and Panasonic (the same with my IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad notebook).

But my old Lumix (also bought used) came with a cheap chinese charger (without the 3rd contact) and caused all kind of problems. I finally replaced it by the Panasonic charger (at a hefty price), but no problems anymore.

The original chargers may be produced in the same chinese factories as the cheap ones, but they will have an approved electronic design and a tight quality control

Last edited by RKKS08; 09-19-2018 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Typing

**psoo** · 09-22-2018, 08:49 PM

I recently shot about 150 photos including about 20 using flash. The Eneloops were fully charged. Is this about what I can expect from batteries in good condition?

Take-5-JB · 09-22-2018, 09:49 PM

I have a 16 Eneloops from 2009 I used with my KM and K200D for years. Don't use the K200D as much now because I have K5, K3, and K1. Use the Eneloop batteries for my flashes and in the extra tray for the K3 battery pack. I have my K200D and an extra 4 Eneloop batteries in a pack to go out in my boat (I go in saltwater 99% of time here on the SC coast). I have never charged them with anything but the chargers I ordered with the Eneloops. They still work fine. I had a Ray-o-vac charger ruin a bunch of ray-o-vac and other "rechargeable" batteries. I would be weary of a third party charger.

JB

Sliver-Surfer · 09-22-2018, 10:29 PM

Eneloop charger, recharges batteries individually..that is why the batteries have such a good reputation.

Energizer,Duracell ect..charge groups of 2 batteries unti they reach the voltage of the sum of two batteries or ~3v so they might finish charging with one at 1v and the other at 2v and then even worse over time until one dies..(the one that charges faster). I charge all my ni-mhs in Eneloop chargers. Don't use an aa/aaa charger unless it says it can charge 1 battery at a time.
...I mostly only buy Duracell batteries because they are good and cheap and they last forever when I charge them in my Eneloop charger.

Not a Number · 09-22-2018, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Sliver-Surfer

Eneloop charger, recharges batteries individually..that is why the batteries have such a good reputation.

It depends on the model of the charger. The Sanyo branded Eneloop charger I have only charges in pairs. A good rule of thumb is if the charger has as many status lights as the number of bays for batteries, e.g. four lights four slots. Even so the charger may be charging on a timer and not monitoring the charge of the battery.

The website I linked above has a comprehensive list of all the Eneloop chargers and details which charge in pairs and so on.

**psoo** · 09-23-2018, 06:12 AM

Thanks for the last three comments on charging Eneloops. After I had trouble with my "Energizer" charger I dumped it, and now use an "Enercell" charger. It charges without causing a very high temperature to develop in the batteries. However, to play it safe I think I'll buy an Eneloop charger.

Sliver-Surfer · 09-23-2018, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

It depends on the model of the charger. The Sanyo branded Eneloop charger I have only charges in pairs. A good rule of thumb is if the charger has as many status lights as the number of bays for batteries, e.g. four lights four slots. Even so the charger may be charging on a timer and not monitoring the charge of the battery.

The website I linked above has a comprehensive list of all the Eneloop chargers and details which charge in pairs and so on.

It appears you are correct. I am assuming they built up a good reputation from the original chargers and now they can just make lots of money off of reputation and save a tonne of cash with cheap sub par chargers. I have collected at least a half dozen of the originals from thrift stores comes in handy when I have a multi flash shoot planned.

09-19-2018, 09:44 AM	#17
RKKS08 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Frankfurt am Main Posts: 1,241	Originally posted by psoo I usually use Eneloops on my Kx but my K50 allows me to use a rechargeable ithium battery as well. Can anybody tell me if they will also suffer deterioration with time? Yes they do. Not related to your question: Rechargeable Li batteries should only be used with chargers explicitly designed for this type. Specially for the ones with higher capacity like for DSLRs and notebooks I would be wary about chargers not supplying the 3rd contact (some have a dummy, that's just as bad). These batteries may get too hot during charging, and if the internal temperature gets too high, the charging should be paused automatically, and continued when the temperature is far enough down. The 3rd contact of the multi-cell batteries takes care for that, if the charger supports it. Last edited by RKKS08; 09-19-2018 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Typing

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09-18-2018, 09:16 AM	#16
psoo Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 485 Original Poster	Originally posted by RKKS08 Modern IC controlled chargers which handle each cell individually use a sawtooth pulse, measuring delta current and voltage with each pulse. So they can decide when a cell is fully loaded without knowing what kind of cell it is. With a full cycle (discharge+charge) this also gives a picture of the health status of the cell. Deeply discharged (unresponding) cells would first need a current-limited constant voltage till the cell starts to respond; then (after a pause) the pulse loading may get a try. My chargers cannot do this automatically, but I several times successfully revived cells which the intelligent loader marked as dead, by using an old simple (constant voltage) loader first. I usually use Eneloops on my Kx but my K50 allows me to use a rechargeable ithium battery as well. Can anybody tell me if they will also suffer deterioration with time?

09-19-2018, 12:47 PM	#18
psoo Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 485 Original Poster	Originally posted by RKKS08 Yes they do. Not related to your question: Rechargeable Li batteries should only be used with chargers explicitly designed for this type. Specially for the ones with higher capacity like for DSLRs and notebooks I would be wary about chargers not supplying the 3rd contact (some have a dummy, that's just as bad). These batteries may get too hot during charging, and if the internal temperature gets too high, the charging should be paused automatically, and continued when the temperature is far enough down. The 3rd contact of the multi-cell batteries takes care for that, if the charger supports it. Hi RKK. I do use the Pentax charger for the Pentax-supplied Li battery,for my K50. Hope this keeps the battery in good shape for a long time.

09-19-2018, 02:46 PM - 1 Like	#19
RKKS08 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Frankfurt am Main Posts: 1,241	I use the original Pentax charger for the K-5 and the original charger of Panasonic for the Lumix. The reserve batteries of both are Pantonas, no problems yet. The Pantonas give less shots than the Pentax ones, and most likely will last half as long, but they cost a fraction of the original batteries from Pentax and Panasonic (the same with my IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad notebook). But my old Lumix (also bought used) came with a cheap chinese charger (without the 3rd contact) and caused all kind of problems. I finally replaced it by the Panasonic charger (at a hefty price), but no problems anymore. The original chargers may be produced in the same chinese factories as the cheap ones, but they will have an approved electronic design and a tight quality control Last edited by RKKS08; 09-19-2018 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Typing

09-22-2018, 08:49 PM	#20
psoo Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 485 Original Poster	I recently shot about 150 photos including about 20 using flash. The Eneloops were fully charged. Is this about what I can expect from batteries in good condition?

09-22-2018, 09:49 PM	#21
Take-5-JB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 236	I have a 16 Eneloops from 2009 I used with my KM and K200D for years. Don't use the K200D as much now because I have K5, K3, and K1. Use the Eneloop batteries for my flashes and in the extra tray for the K3 battery pack. I have my K200D and an extra 4 Eneloop batteries in a pack to go out in my boat (I go in saltwater 99% of time here on the SC coast). I have never charged them with anything but the chargers I ordered with the Eneloops. They still work fine. I had a Ray-o-vac charger ruin a bunch of ray-o-vac and other "rechargeable" batteries. I would be weary of a third party charger. JB

09-22-2018, 10:29 PM	#22
Sliver-Surfer Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,558	Eneloop charger, recharges batteries individually..that is why the batteries have such a good reputation. Energizer,Duracell ect..charge groups of 2 batteries unti they reach the voltage of the sum of two batteries or ~3v so they might finish charging with one at 1v and the other at 2v and then even worse over time until one dies..(the one that charges faster). I charge all my ni-mhs in Eneloop chargers. Don't use an aa/aaa charger unless it says it can charge 1 battery at a time. ...I mostly only buy Duracell batteries because they are good and cheap and they last forever when I charge them in my Eneloop charger.

09-22-2018, 10:55 PM	#23
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by Sliver-Surfer Eneloop charger, recharges batteries individually..that is why the batteries have such a good reputation. It depends on the model of the charger. The Sanyo branded Eneloop charger I have only charges in pairs. A good rule of thumb is if the charger has as many status lights as the number of bays for batteries, e.g. four lights four slots. Even so the charger may be charging on a timer and not monitoring the charge of the battery. The website I linked above has a comprehensive list of all the Eneloop chargers and details which charge in pairs and so on.

09-23-2018, 06:12 AM	#24
psoo Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 485 Original Poster	Thanks for the last three comments on charging Eneloops. After I had trouble with my "Energizer" charger I dumped it, and now use an "Enercell" charger. It charges without causing a very high temperature to develop in the batteries. However, to play it safe I think I'll buy an Eneloop charger.

09-23-2018, 04:25 PM	#25
Sliver-Surfer Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,558	Originally posted by Not a Number It depends on the model of the charger. The Sanyo branded Eneloop charger I have only charges in pairs. A good rule of thumb is if the charger has as many status lights as the number of bays for batteries, e.g. four lights four slots. Even so the charger may be charging on a timer and not monitoring the charge of the battery. The website I linked above has a comprehensive list of all the Eneloop chargers and details which charge in pairs and so on. It appears you are correct. I am assuming they built up a good reputation from the original chargers and now they can just make lots of money off of reputation and save a tonne of cash with cheap sub par chargers. I have collected at least a half dozen of the originals from thrift stores comes in handy when I have a multi flash shoot planned.